Should the USFSA give Alissa Czisny a ticket to Worlds after being GPF Champion?

[Bluebonnet]

It is hard to know what the prededent is. In 2001-02 Matt Savoie won the bronze medal at the Grand Prix Final, but finished fourth at U.S. Nationals. The top three at Nationals were Eldredge, Goebel and Weiss. These three went to the Olympics. (IMHO Savoie deserved placement at Nationals ahead of Weiss, but that's another story. )

Eldredge decided not to go to Worlds that year, so Savoie went to Worlds with the other two.

Other than that, every U.S. skater/dance team who ever medaled at the Grand Prix final handily made the podium at Nationals as well, so there was no controversy. For instance, in ladies, the former Grand Prix Finals winners for the U.S. were Michelle Kwan, Tara Lipinski, and Sasha Cohen.

Here the PCS has gotten the use of it. (In 2001-02 it was the presentation mark.) It's easy to switch third and fourth or second and third by giving different PCS. It's all in the PCS. The difference between now and then was, now the judges have less control of the outcome. Therefore, they have to give out larger margin in order to make the desired outcome. Which has resulted in the huge, outragous PCS. Often, the winner, even the rightful winner of a competition was also having unexplainable inflated PCS scores.

 

[heyang]

While I agree that Alyssa is a lovely skater, I don't think giving her a spot on the World team should be based upon just GPF. She happened to be best of the week, but the others weren't at the top of their games. If anything, the results were very surprising, but because of the mistakes of others. I think her confidence and/or ability to avoid psyching herself out are improving.

I think that Alyssa needs to prove that she can perform consistently under pressure. If she at least medals at Nationals, then I can certainly see considering her for a World team spot even if she finished 3rd and the 2nd place finisher has little senior international experience. Post Olympic years sometimes have underage medalists (i.e. Sasha, Naomi Nari Nam, Mirai, etc.) - recall Ashley Wagner went to Worlds with a 4th place finish because 2 of the medalists were too young for Worlds.

So, we'll see if Alyssa is truly on track for having her head together. She has to prove that she can medal as a favorite, instead of an underdog.

 

[silverlake22]

She shouldn't have even BEEN at Sectionals, and was probably just trying to do enough to get by there. I would hate to hold her performance there against her... To me, it's irrelevant. That Sectionals week was supposed to be her "down time" in between GPs.

I just hope her success on the GP counts for something... If she were to get 3rd at Nationals by a couple of points, I would want them to send her to Worlds over the 2nd place finisher. But history says they wouldn't. :disapp:

She didn't place in the top 5 at nationals last season, therefore she should have BEEN at nationals because she didn't receive a bye. The rules have been that way for as long as I can remember.

Anyhow, if she skates like she did at the GPF, she should have no issue finishing 1st or 2nd at nationals and making the World Team. It's as simple as that. She is more than capable of making the Worlds Team fair and square, so no special exceptions/conditions should be made for her to go because she doesn't need them. If she doesn't get on the World Team this time around, it's not because she's not good enough, but because she still hasn't overcome her demon of competition nerves, which she very well may have overcome judging from her performance at the GPF.

 

[gold12345]

She didn't place in the top 5 at nationals last season, therefore she should have BEEN at nationals because she didn't receive a bye. The rules have been that way for as long as I can remember.

Yet others with only one GP were given byes based on scheduling conflicts. All skaters with 2 GPs should be given a "scheduling conflict" bye as well, IMO.

Anyhow, if she skates like she did at the GPF, she should have no issue finishing 1st or 2nd at nationals and making the World Team. It's as simple as that. She is more than capable of making the Worlds Team fair and square, so no special exceptions/conditions should be made for her to go because she doesn't need them. If she doesn't get on the World Team this time around, it's not because she's not good enough, but because she still hasn't overcome her demon of competition nerves, which she very well may have overcome judging from her performance at the GPF.

I don't know if it's just about nerves. It's hard to duplicate top results over and over again. It's a sport, and ice is slippery. I don't think Czisny should be given a free pass to Worlds, but if she gets shut out of the top 2 by a close margin at Nationals, I would seriously consider sending her. This wouldn't be "unfair" as much as it would be acknowledging that sometimes your best scoring skaters aren't always going to do well directly on that Nationals weekend.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

It's clear from the thread that many fans see Alissa's GP win as a fluke and they anticipate her melt down at Nats. I don't understand that rationale. They do not explain that the top American girls were all in the GPs. Why not? They do not mention Rachael, Ashley, Caroline, Alexe, Agnes, and Mirai all of whom were in the same competition but only one of them got to the Finals besides Alissa. What happened to the other American starlets? They could have risen above the crowd, too. But they did not! Will the US Nats event give them a chance to make up for the poor showing at GPs? Will it not be a fluke?

I am wondering if Alissa does win the Nats, will the perception of Alissa change too? Will the same skeptical posters say the Nats were also a fluke and will the skepticism continue through the Worlds. It seems to me, that that will be the scenario. They want the next bubble gum skater to win Worlds. Bubble gum skaters are soooo cuuuute.

Some day Figure Skating may become a Grown-Up Sport.

 

[Layfan]

^ If Alissa skates well and wins nationals I think the doubters will finally have to lay off. Of course, it wasn't a fluke that she won the GPF. Some may think that but many of us don't and it's actually pretty clear to me how much fan support she has.

If she falters, ends up third of fourth and gets sent to worlds anyway, SOME people will be all over her, banging on about her inconsistency and how she will surely fall apart at worlds.

That's why I hope it doesn't happen that way for Alissa. I hope she goes to worlds with the fan support she has now. :thumbsup: And not the way she did in 09 when people were so negative about her.

Anyway, my bet is on Alissa to soar at Nationals. She does have some room for a minor mistake or two because parts of her skating are just way superior to some of the other Americans. Some fans won't agree with that but that's okay - everyone is entitled to their opinions.

Go Alissa and good luck to her!!

 

[silverlake22]

Yet others with only one GP were given byes based on scheduling conflicts. All skaters with 2 GPs should be given a "scheduling conflict" bye as well, IMO.



I don't know if it's just about nerves. It's hard to duplicate top results over and over again. It's a sport, and ice is slippery. I don't think Czisny should be given a free pass to Worlds, but if she gets shut out of the top 2 by a close margin at Nationals, I would seriously consider sending her. This wouldn't be "unfair" as much as it would be acknowledging that sometimes your best scoring skaters aren't always going to do well directly on that Nationals weekend.

If you want to be the top of the sport, you have to be able to prove you're the best time and again. I mean, Worlds last season was the last time Yuna hadn't won a competition in over a YEAR. I'm not ok with sending to Czisny to Worlds over some other worthy competitor if she tanks at nationals. However, if she skates well, not even perfectly just well, then she should easily place top 2 and earn her spot. If she messes up at nationals, it doesn't make her any less good of a skater, but nationals is a high stake competition where the results matter and probably the worst competition to bomb. Great skaters earn their reputations by being able to skate CONSISTENTLY well. Mess ups happen, sure, but for the the top skaters usually not at high stakes competition. I mean Mao last season, bombed her GPs, that raised a red flag but they weren't that important, then at nationals she kicked butt and made the Olympic team fair and square and then went on to win gold at 4CC, silver at the Olympics, and gold at Worlds.

Alissa probably had the SOHL at the GPF, so I'm not saying she has to do that again, but I really would be upset if she ended up on the team after skating a repeat of her TEB FS which was just a mess in terms of the jumps - unless everyone else messes up as well, then it would be ok. I'd understand your point about giving a skater that just won the GPF some slack at nationals if it was someone generally consistent, like Rachael or something, but Alissa is known for her inconsistency, so I think nationals is just a perfect test to see if she can handle the pressure.

 

[R.D.]

No.

Not with two spots, and not with her previous track record. I want to see her do it again at Nats.

 

[silverlake22]

No.

Not with two spots, and not with her previous track record. I want to see her do it again at Nats.

Thanks. You said what I was trying to say in my previous post in much condensed version .

Plus if Alissa delivers at nationals it will be lovely to watch.

 

[R.D.]

It's clear from the thread that many fans see Alissa's GP win as a fluke and they anticipate her melt down at Nats. I don't understand that rationale. They do not explain that the top American girls were all in the GPs. Why not? They do not mention Rachael, Ashley, Caroline, Alexe, Agnes, and Mirai all of whom were in the same competition but only one of them got to the Finals besides Alissa. What happened to the other American starlets? They could have risen above the crowd, too. But they did not! Will the US Nats event give them a chance to make up for the poor showing at GPs? Will it not be a fluke?

Fluke? Well, suppose she DOES bomb Nats...who's to say it isn't one? Isn't what people thought of Hughes' Oly win? Meissner's Worlds win?

You have a valid point here though. Czisny's events were somewhat easier I feel, but she did beat a strong field at the GPF.

They will all be skating at Nats. If Czisny wins again, the GPF win wasn't a fluke. Even if she freaking stands up on all her jumps- regardless of end result, can't call it a fluke. But if she bombs? Hard not to imagine it wasn't one.

I am wondering if Alissa does win the Nats, will the perception of Alissa change too? Will the same skeptical posters say the Nats were also a fluke and will the skepticism continue through the Worlds.

The skeptics will be saying, congrats to her, Miss Inconsistent Czisny- 2-time (!) National Champ, now please don't screw us over YET AGAIN at the Worlds.

It seems to me, that that will be the scenario. They want the next bubble gum skater to win Worlds. Bubble gum skaters are soooo cuuuute.

Lol...but no, they lost faith in our current crop when they failed to rise to the occasion.

 

[gkelly]

Should the USFSA give Richard Dornbush a ticket to Junior Worlds after being Junior GPF Champion?

 

[silverlake22]

Oh, and Joesitz, some of us like Bubble Gum Skaters

Alissa Czisny when she was 17 was one of my favorites. I just can't get as excited about her now because she's been around for so long. She's still lovely, but the young wonderbabies are more exciting IMO.

 

[Bluebonnet]

I like bubble gum skaters in general.

 

[janetfan]

I like bubble gum skaters in general.

I love chewing bubblegum ..........:yes:

I like Kanako, Adelina, Christina and hope to see more of Vanessa so I guess I also like "bubblegum skaters."

I also like the older skaters and think it is nice Caro and Alissa and even Fumie are still competing. Last year Julia S. had some nice skates.

I think Joubert needs to ditch his new classical look and get back to the hip thrust and walking man. The screaming girls miss that and maybe even the judges do too
I think "Disco Duck" would be good music for Joubert....

 

[Bluebonnet]

I think Joubert needs to ditch his new classical look and get back to the hip thrust and walking man. The screaming girls miss that and maybe even the judges do too
I think "Disco Duck" would be good music for Joubert....

Why? You can't hide your snarkiness whenever you mention Joubert and Plushenko?

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

If you want to be the top of the sport, you have to be able to prove you're the best time and again.

That's what it is all about -more than 1 competition. Czisny has already done that. If Rachael was injured, she did have 2 excellent skates in the GP segments. I would like to see her at Nats - not for medals so much but for skating excellently again. Mirai did have one good skate at the GPs, and she should confirm it with good US Nats.

These 3 seem to be the 'best' not necessarily the strongest skaters we have. For the US Nats, they will be competing on home turf without the stress of constant travelling.

As you can read in a post above, Czisny has been branded as inconsistent. If she skates a gold at US Nats, will she still be branded inconsistent? That's a question I will be waiting for an answer.

Mirai is also inconsistent so will a Nats medal change that?

This thread doesn't go into much analyses, imo.

 

[Layfan]

Joe - I tried to answer your question about Czisny's reputation. Read a few posts back. I don't know if you'll find it very interesting - but I did give it a go.

People have different ways of being fans and enjoy different things about skating. Some are skaters. Some of us aren't. That doesn't mean we haven't done things in our lives that aren't difficult and competitive. It'd be pretty sad for skating if the only people who watched were skaters or former skaters.

We all have different opinions. I am always a fan of skaters I've been watching for years. I get attached. Silverlake gets excited by the newbies. It's all good. It seems to be she watches skating very closely and knows a lot about it. I've learned a lot from her _ and from you. It's just a forum. We are all "qualified" to make opinions.

 

[dwiggin3]

Alissa probably had the SOHL at the GPF, .

Wow, if that was the skate of her life, then that was a disappointment. There were several mistakes in her FS and her jumps were not nearly as smooth as they can be. She skated well...but to say it was "the skate of her life" really does her injustice.

Darby

 

[Layfan]

^ I agree. It was a lovely skate but she could do better. But people always underestimate Alissa. It's understandable - given how many times she has failed to live up to expectations.

 

[silverlake22]

That's what it is all about -more than 1 competition. Czisny has already done that. If Rachael was injured, she did have 2 excellent skates in the GP segments. I would like to see her at Nats - not for medals so much but for skating excellently again. Mirai did have one good skate at the GPs, and she should confirm it with good US Nats.

These 3 seem to be the 'best' not necessarily the strongest skaters we have. For the US Nats, they will be competing on home turf without the stress of constant travelling.

As you can read in a post above, Czisny has been branded as inconsistent. If she skates a gold at US Nats, will she still be branded inconsistent? That's a question I will be waiting for an answer.

Mirai is also inconsistent so will a Nats medal change that?

This thread doesn't go into much analyses, imo.

I think if Alissa finishes in the top 2 at nationals and does so convincingly it will really help her be seen as consistent - or more consistent that she used to be at least. If she skates well at nationals, it just improves her reputation in so many ways and will make people realize her winning the GPF wasn't a fluke, that she's really regrouped, and that she can deliver when the pressure is on. All these things should help give her confidence going into Worlds. But if she is say 3rd or 4th and gets sent to Worlds, she knows she's just being sent to help get the US 3 spots back, and that would put pressure on her and might cause her to mess up there.