Sports photography

[KissAndCry]

I like to dabble in photography and I'm mostly interested in shooting sports or action shots, specifically skating and my son's basketball or baseball games. I've been using a Sony point and shoot (hx20v) for the past few years, but it is now damaged. Taking photos with it was typically a crapshoot, but I did manage to capture some good action photos. However, they are never as sharp when I print them as they appear to be on the camera's display. I am currently looking to upgrade and I'm hoping for some advice from those that have some experience with sports photography, skating or otherwise.

Since I don't want to break USFS's camera rules, I'm looking for something compact but still has a larger sensor. I have ruled out DSLRs for myself because they are bulky and make a lot of shutter noise. I do not want to annoy anyone near me. Long story short, I am thinking of purchasing a mirrorless ILC. The models I'm looking at are the Sony a6000, Sony a6300 or Panasonic GX85. They are all more $ than I originally wanted to spend, but I don't really want to compromise on image quality this time. The reason I'm considering the a6300 is the silent shooting mode, but it's $400 more than the a6000 (when purchased as a bundle with a telephoto lens). Trying to decide it it's worth that much more to be quiet and stealthy. I'm slightly nervous about interchangeable lenses, but the fixed lens camera I would want to get (Sony RX10 II) is way above my price range.

Thank you for taking the time to read my post! I welcome any input on the cameras I've mentioned or any other models that you might recommend. Keep in mind that I'd like to keep it under $1,000 (the less expensive the better).

 

[YesWay]

I'm looking for something compact but still has a larger sensor. I have ruled out DSLRs for myself because they are bulky and make a lot of shutter noise. I do not want to annoy anyone near me.

Ah, music to my ears... This is my way of thinking too...

Long story short, I am thinking of purchasing a mirrorless ILC. The models I'm looking at are the Sony a6000, Sony a6300 or Panasonic GX85. They are all more $ than I originally wanted to spend, but I don't really want to compromise on image quality this time. The reason I'm considering the a6300 is the silent shooting mode, but it's $400 more than the a6000 (when purchased as a bundle with a telephoto lens). Trying to decide it it's worth that much more to be quiet and stealthy. I'm slightly nervous about interchangeable lenses, but the fixed lens camera I would want to get (Sony RX10 II) is way above my price range.

Thank you for taking the time to read my post! I welcome any input on the cameras I've mentioned or any other models that you might recommend. Keep in mind that I'd like to keep it under $1,000 (the less expensive the better).

Silent shutters
I don't know anything about those Sony's, but "silent" shooting modes usually use an "electronic" shutter instead of the mechanical shutter. And for action with moving subjects I always avoid electronic shutter - because when panning with a moving subject, it causes "rolling shutter" or "jello" distortion in the backgrounds. Instead, I choose cameras with very quiet mechanical shutters for figure skating.

I gather that if considering Sony ILC's you may want to check if the range of available lenses includes what you're looking for...

Fixed-lens compacts
I have used various compact superzooms over the years such as Panasonic FZ1000 (examples HERE), and I've been pleased with the results. They're not exactly silent, but much quieter than most DSLRs. I consider the FZ1000 to be a contemporary of the RX10 II you mention - but twice the reach, 400mm equivalent versus 200mm equivalent... and personally, I wouldn't be happy with anything less than 300mm for figure skating.

GX85
These days, I'm using a Micro Four Thirds camera - and I've used the GX85 you mentioned quite a bit (examples HERE). It's very compact, high performance, and has a very quiet shutter (it's practically immune to "shutter shock" too, if you're familiar with that). Great improvement over the FZ1000 and its 1" sensor contemporaries - m43 sensor is twice the area of 1", so you gain roughly one stop in equivalent speed.

GX85 is a great camera in nearly every respect, you'll be hard pressed to find a better "bang for your buck". But the viewfinder is a bit small - many people hate it, but after a while I unconsciously developed the habit of looking through it slightly sideways... I don't know why, but I got along with it just fine after that. I also use one of THESE with it, which (for me) dramatically improves its feel and handling when used for several hours at a time at a FS competition, with a heavy lens attached.

M43 Lenses, shutter speeds and ISOs
And speaking of lenses, I normally use the Olympus 40-150 f2.8 Pro lens for figure skating. One of those alone could blow your entire budget... even a used one. It's quite large and heavy by m43 standards, but actually, no bigger than the lens of a compact superzoom when fully extended, and nowhere near the size of an equivalent DSLR lens. It's a top quality lens... with a near-perfect range of focal lengths for figure skating (80 - 300mm equivalent), assuming your seat is somewhere in the middle of the long side of the rink... or fairly near the front if you're on a corner or short-side. At a decently-lit competition rink, its constant f2.8 allows shutter speeds of 1/800th - 1/1000th, at ISOs roughly 640 - 1250.

Those ISOs are no problem for m43 sensors, I don't find "noise" to be an issue, and images clean up nicely with specialised software if necessary. 1/800th is fast enough to freeze skating action pretty well, even if you're sloppy with your panning. My FZ1000 generally couldn't manage any faster than 1/400th without noise becoming a problem... and I'm also used to airshow photography, panning with shutter speeds at about 1/250th (even as low as 1/40th for "full disk" propeller blurs), and image stabilisation turned off. With that in mind, shooting at 1/800th is so easy, it feels like cheating!

If you go with a typical f4 - f5.6 zoom lens with the GX85, you'll need to drop the shutter speed somewhat and probably accept higher ISO's too. Not a problem if you're well-practiced with action/panning, and I might be doing exactly that myself at World's: My seat for Worlds is far from the front, and the Olympus 40-150 may not have enough "reach". So I may be be using a Panasonic 100-300 MkII instead (f4 - f5.6, 200-600mm equivalent). This lens is again quite compact and no bigger than a fully-extended compact superzoom lens. It all depends on the lighting, but I'm thinking I'll probably be able to use 1/400th or 1/500th shutter speed if I push the ISO's up to about 1250 - 2500, with that lens.

Another f4-f5.6 lens I've used, which you might consider... is the Panasonic 45-175 f4-f5.6 (90-350mm equivalent). Comparitively inexpensive, pretty sharp, very compact and light. Motorised zoom, but it's the fastest and most responsive motorised zoom I've ever used, very close to a "manual" zoom. You can operate it using the "traditional" zoom ring around the lens, but also by using a slider switch on the side of the barrel - which is great for smooth zooming when recording video.

I haven't used one, but the Panasonic 14-140 f3.5 - f5.6 (28 - 280mm equivalent) "kit" lens seems well respected, it has just about enough "reach" for figure skating, but also has enough "wide angle" for everyday use - it's a versatile all-in-one solution, so you might never need to change lenses, if that makes you uncomfortable. Pretty cheap too, since its a "kit" lens ie. often bundled with a camera body such as GX85...

G85, even quieter than GX85
By the way, I've since graduated to the Panasonic G80 (G85) body (examples HERE), which is very similar to the GX85 - but bigger viewfinder, more ergonomic when using bigger/heavier lenses, and weather resistant (these things are valuable for airshows). It has the same quiet shutter as the GX85... but also offers an "electronic first curtain shutter" option. This works together with the mechanical shutter for even quieter operation, and it works up to 1/2000th - far faster than I'll ever need for figure skating.

And finally...
Having said all that, bear in mind that you are compromising on image quality by not choosing a DSLR...! Bigger sensors always win. (The question is, how much image quality do you actually need? Perosnally, I don't need the ultimate in image quality, so I am happy to compromise... in favour of small size, light weight, convenience, and not annoying everyone sitting near me)

 

[Tonichelle]

I've heard that Nikon has a way of reducing the sound of the shutter in their cameras? IDK - I am strictly a Canon girl. I love the sound of a shutter, though, so...

 

[KissAndCry]

Silent shutters
I don't know anything about those Sony's, but "silent" shooting modes usually use an "electronic" shutter instead of the mechanical shutter. And for action with moving subjects I always avoid electronic shutter - because when panning with a moving subject, it causes "rolling shutter" or "jello" distortion in the backgrounds. Instead, I choose cameras with very quiet mechanical shutters for figure skating.

Small note: I believe the Sony a6000 has the option for the "electronic first curtain shutter" that you mention later on in your post regarding the G85. That feature may make it a more viable option for my needs.


Thank you for your detailed and informative post. I actually tried to respond last week, but I got logged out and lost my entire post. So here goes a second attempt...

I have been mulling over the purchase of a new camera for some time now, and I continue to think it over. A great camera is a "want" for me, instead of a "need," and I am on a budget. I really don't want to spend more than $800, but it so hard to find the perfect camera that meets all of my criteria. I am pretty sure that a "perfect" camera does not exist so it is obvious that compromises need to be made. Here are my priorities, ranked in order but they are all pretty close:

1. Size (compact and portable, with a lens that isn't too long/does not obstruct anyone else's view; I also don't want to have my camera confiscated)
2. Quiet operation
3. Price
4. Image quality *focus tracking needed (if I could get photos like the ones you linked to, I would be extremely happy)
5. Battery life (I have 3 batteries for my current camera and I have used all 3 in a day before)
6. Video quality (4k would be nice but is not totally necessary)

The photos I take are for my personal use only, as I like to make nice photo books as keepsakes. It is frustrating, however, that I can take thousands of shots and only get a small fraction that look sharp. I found out that the camera I have is rated poorly for sports photography, so at this point anything with a larger sensor would likely be an upgrade. I am used to using a Sony, but I am certainly open to other brands.

Here are the models that I am currently looking at, with some pros and cons that I can see:

1. Sony a6000
Pros: I can get this camera with 2 kit lenses (16 - 50 mm and 55 - 210 mm) for a price within my budget. It has fast focusing and a good burst rate (11 fps). The sensor is an APS-C. The 4k video is an added perk.

Cons: The shutter is rather loud - I'd need to make use of the electronic first curtain shutter feature. Interchangeable lenses - this might turn out to be not a big deal, but I tend to carry "stuff" with me at skating comps and having to deal with separate lenses might be an issue. I don't want to carry a larger camera bag, so I'm not sure where I'd store a separate telephoto lens.

2. Sony RX10 II
Pros: This camera has a fixed 24-200 mm F2.8 lens. Anti-distortion shutter of up to 1/32,000 sec., way more than I need. Fast focusing, with a burst rate of up to 16 fps. That 4k video, again. Quiet operation!

Cons: This camera is a bit of a beast (although it is smaller than the FZ1000), and it is very pricey! I would have to buy a used model. It only has a 1" sensor.

3. Canon G3X
Pros: Comparable to the Sony RX10 II, but a little bit smaller and a lot less expensive. I can get a new one for the same price as a used RX10 II. The zoom on this camera goes up to 600 mm (but that's also a con).
Cons: No 4k video but that's not a deal breaker for me. It has a 1" sensor. No built-in viewfinder; it is an extra add-on.

4. Panasonic Lumix GX 85
Pros: Pretty much everything you mentioned in your post! With this camera, I would look into purchasing the body and adding one good lens, like you suggested. I've seen it as a bundle with just a 12 - 32 mm lens, which is way too small. I really liked this camera when I played around with it in a store, so I'm open to finding a good lens combination.
Cons: Purchasing said lens might put me over-budget. Poor battery life - can you comment on this? Did you run into issues?

I've done a lot of internet "research" and these cameras seem to be my top options. I also like the Sony a6300, but I don't want to spend that much money. I would want it for the silent mode, but I can't use that with hi-speed burst anyway. If I could make the a6000 quieter, that would be just fine by me. I tend to take less shots during the actual competition segments, so I won't diminish enjoying the performances.

One major factor that will influence my decision is that am only able to attend FS competitions on a sporadic basis. So in "real life" situations I'll be using the camera for sports shooting at my son's baseball and basketball games. I don't need to have a professional level camera, just something that will give me sharp images. Some bokeh would be really nice, too!

The next event I will be attending is 2018 U.S. Nationals, so I've got some time. I would like to make a purchase within the next few months, though, so I have time to learn how to properly use it.

 

[YesWay]

1. Size (compact and portable, with a lens that isn't too long/does not obstruct anyone else's view; I also don't want to have my camera confiscated)
2. Quiet operation
3. Price
4. Image quality *focus tracking needed (if I could get photos like the ones you linked to, I would be extremely happy)
5. Battery life (I have 3 batteries for my current camera and I have used all 3 in a day before)
6. Video quality (4k would be nice but is not totally necessary)

Some general points to note:
Larger sensors bring higher image quality, but generally require larger, heavier, and more expensive lenses for given focal lengths.
Especially "fast" lenses that are better for sports and indoor photography, like figure skating.
("faster" means maximum f-number is lower eg. f2.8 to f4 is "faster" than f4 to f5.6)

"Tracking" autofocus? I use "continuous" autofocus (actually Panasonic's "AFF" which is a continuous autofocus mode designed for subjects that move "unpredictably")... or I use "single" Autofocus and just be quick to take the shot as soon as focus is achieved.

Newer Panasonics with their "DFD" system have extremely fast autofocussing, especially when using their own lenses. So I never use "tracking" autofocus - actually I never came across any compact camera, of any brand, where "tracking" autofocus was anywhere near useful/accurate/reliable enough for me. I prefer to track subjects myself, by panning the camera in synch with their movement.

To my mind, "tracking" AF is only useful for subjects that move around within the frame... but if your panning is good, the subject isn't moving around within the frame. (Conversely, if your panning isn't following the subject well, your subject is likely to be soft or motion-blurred, even if "tracking" AF manages to keep it in focus). But maybe things have moved on - I haven't even tried "tracking" AF for quite a few years.

Panasonics do 4K very well. They are probably the front-runners for stills cameras that do video as well. Generally no overheating issues, generally good stabilisation (excellent in the GX85), and various innovative 4K "photo" modes etc as well.

1. Sony a6000
Pros: I can get this camera with 2 kit lenses (16 - 50 mm and 55 - 210 mm) for a price within my budget. It has fast focusing and a good burst rate (11 fps). The sensor is an APS-C. The 4k video is an added perk.

Cons: The shutter is rather loud - I'd need to make use of the electronic first curtain shutter feature. Interchangeable lenses - this might turn out to be not a big deal, but I tend to carry "stuff" with me at skating comps and having to deal with separate lenses might be an issue. I don't want to carry a larger camera bag, so I'm not sure where I'd store a separate telephoto lens.

Electronic first curtain shutter (EFCS) can half the amount of shutter noise... but it isn't exactly going to make a loud shutter quiet. Instead of two mechanical shutter curtains that sound like "KER-CHUNK", you have one electronic and one mechanical that sound like "CHUNK"... instead of "KER-CHUNK". If the "chunk" part was loud before, it will still be loud even when using EFCS - especially when shooting in bursts ("chunk-chunk-chunk-chunk-chunk").

The main use of EFCS is usually to reduce "shutter shock" (vibrations from the shutter that can blur or soften your images. If a shutter is noisy, there is likely to be a lot of that vibration...)

The Sony 55-210 lens sounds like a good range of focal lengths for figure skating (82-315mm equivalent), but it is rather "slow", f4.5 - f6.3... which means either using higher ISO (more "noise" in your images), or slower shutter speeds (harder to avoid motion-blurred subjects, less photos are "keepers"), compared to faster lenses.

However, that might be OK - because the APSC sensor is much larger than the ones in the other cameras you mentioned... so you can probably push ISO higher than those other cameras before noise becomes problematic.

Lens changing... At events, I simply avoid changing lenses. I usually just leave the telephoto lens on at all times. Either I don't take any wide-angle snapshots, or I carry a Fuji XQ2 that's small enough to fit in a jeans pocket - makes very nice photos, and its "intelligent flash" is quite remarkable for portraits without turning people's faces ghostly-white. (If I had a smart phone with a decent camera, perhaps I'd make do with that for the wideangle/snapshots?)

2. Sony RX10 II
Pros: This camera has a fixed 24-200 mm F2.8 lens. Anti-distortion shutter of up to 1/32,000 sec., way more than I need. Fast focusing, with a burst rate of up to 16 fps. That 4k video, again. Quiet operation!

Cons: This camera is a bit of a beast (although it is smaller than the FZ1000), and it is very pricey! I would have to buy a used model. It only has a 1" sensor.

1/32000 is surely referring to the maximum electronic shutter speed. They call it "anti-distortion", but there will still be "rolling shutter" distortion, "tearing", etc if using the silent/electronic shutter, when a) panning the camera very quickly (which is exactly what you do, when following a fast-moving skater!)... and b) when the skater is making quick/snappy movements with hands/arms/legs, or when spinning/jumping.

It doesn't matter how fast the electronic shutter speed is, because rolling shutter is caused by the "readout time" of the sensor - which is much slower, and never changes. RX10's sensor has a comparitively fast readout speed, but it's still not fast enough to get rid of rolling shutter distortion completely. Maybe it's not too bad and you could live with it? Personally, I just look for a quiet mechanical shutter and avoid the whole issue.

I'd be wary of "only" 200mm equivalent at maximum zoom, for figure skating. I'd aim for 300mm, and preferably more.

3. Canon G3X
Pros: Comparable to the Sony RX10 II, but a little bit smaller and a lot less expensive. I can get a new one for the same price as a used RX10 II. The zoom on this camera goes up to 600 mm (but that's also a con).
Cons: No 4k video but that's not a deal breaker for me. It has a 1" sensor. No built-in viewfinder; it is an extra add-on.

Canon has a habit of crippling its compact cameras one way or another. Especially in areas that make it suitable for sports etc. I think they are trying to push people (through brand loyalty) - into "upgrading" to a DSLR and a bag full of expensive lenses, because that is their core business and where the biggest profits are.

In this case, the crippling is: no viewfinder, slow lens, poor autofocusing, and poor bursts compared to competitors. (NB. No viewfinder means holding the camera out, to use the rear screen when shooting - which is probably even more intrusive than using a huge lens on a camera that has a viewfinder...!)

4. Panasonic Lumix GX 85
Pros: Pretty much everything you mentioned in your post! With this camera, I would look into purchasing the body and adding one good lens, like you suggested. I've seen it as a bundle with just a 12 - 32 mm lens, which is way too small. I really liked this camera when I played around with it in a store, so I'm open to finding a good lens combination.
Cons: Purchasing said lens might put me over-budget. Poor battery life - can you comment on this? Did you run into issues?

Regarding battery life, I usually used two-and-a-bit batteries per day at competitions. I might have managed with just two per day, but I don't wait until a battery is completely flat before changing. I had usually used a little bit of the third battery by the end of the day.

I bought a bunch of 3rd-party spare batteries, since the original Panasonic batteries are ridiculously expensive. They don't last quite as long as the original Panasonic battery, but good enough given the price. And I bought a dual-charger, so I could recharge a days batteries all at the same time (2 in the charger, plus one in-camera USB charging). A bit overkill in hindsight.

Fore lenses, in your position and with your budget, I'd probably be looking at the Panasonic 14-140 Mk II lens (28-280mm equivalent), or the 45-175mm PZ lens (90-350mm equivalent) to use with the GX85. Or maybe the new Panasonic 45-200 MkII (90-400mm equivalent), but I don't know much about that one. All are quite compact (especially the 45-175) and unlikely to be turned away at strict arenas. The 14-140 covers both wide angle and telephoto, so using one might mean you never need to change lenses.

They're all a bit on the slow side (f4 - f5.6), to stay withibn your budget. But any of them would work well in good light (outdoors), and would be "usable" or "OK" for figure skating (lighting at major competitions is usually fairly good). Basketball might be a struggle though - gym lighting is often quite poor?

(The ideal is the Olympus 40-150 f2.8 Pro - a much faster lens (f2.8), so it works much better for indoor stuff - faster shutter speeds and/or lower ISO. But it's very expensive)

I've done a lot of internet "research" and these cameras seem to be my top options. I also like the Sony a6300, but I don't want to spend that much money. I would want it for the silent mode, but I can't use that with hi-speed burst anyway. If I could make the a6000 quieter, that would be just fine by me. I tend to take less shots during the actual competition segments, so I won't diminish enjoying the performances.

One major factor that will influence my decision is that am only able to attend FS competitions on a sporadic basis. So in "real life" situations I'll be using the camera for sports shooting at my son's baseball and basketball games. I don't need to have a professional level camera, just something that will give me sharp images. Some bokeh would be really nice, too!

The next event I will be attending is 2018 U.S. Nationals, so I've got some time. I would like to make a purchase within the next few months, though, so I have time to learn how to properly use it.

Well, as you know I've taken the m43 route. So you know which one of the above I would choose (which one I actually did choose!).

m43 system just suits my purposes best, in terms of performance, quietness, size and weight. If those requirements are met... I'll look at which has the most/best features, best image quality etc. Lowest price not really a high priority - I am at that stage of life where kids are grown up, mortgage is paid, I'm still working, and I can afford to splurge on a certain amount of luxuries. So a big difference there: low cost for me is a "nice to have", not a priority! What's best for me, is not so good for you!

By the way, I have no particular brand loyalty. I do tend to buy Panasonic, simply because their stuff suits my needs/preferences so often. But I've used various other brands over the years - Canon (DSLRs), Fuji, Olympus etc. I keep an eye on compact/mirrorless camera developments, and I'm ready to switch at the drop of a hat, if there is a compelling enough reason to...

 

[KissAndCry]

Well, after much deliberating, I took the plunge today and purchased a GX85. After one last hands on comparison between this camera and the Sony models I was considering, what convinced me is how much quieter it is! You can even use silent shooting in burst mode. It isn't completely "silent" but the sound it does make is barely noticeable. Now I need to choose a telephoto lens so I can this what this camera is really capable of. I got a deal, too, which included a travel charger and spare battery.