State of U.S. Ladies' skating 2016-17

[ice coverage]

...and how exactly do you propose we "encourage" young talent?

... 6. Mentoring type programs. Senior skaters should spend time with younger - we should have a fun but cheap, prestigious, but easy on the skaters, program to let them interact. A lot of young skaters could likely learn a lot just by spending a week in Colorado sharing the ice with "names". ...

My hunch is that USFS encouragement of young talent often goes under the radar.
AFAIK, those of us who do not have a family connection or other close connection to "young talent" would have no way of knowing what USFS already is doing for such skaters -- unless USFS were to make a point of publicizing every single thing that it is doing.

For example, senior skaters have been involved in years past in a coaching capacity at USFS Components Camp and USFS Dance Camp.
I'm talking about the likes of Meryl, Charlie, Tanith (and Ben, I think?), Adam (I think?), Christina Gao, Colin McManus, Doug Razzano, Sean Rabbitt, Ashley Cain, etc.
(USFS has Pairs Camps too, but I have not heard as much about them.)

This year, USFS added a TES/jump camp in Colorado Springs, which took place this weekend for about a hundred young skaters.
No press release, although information was elsewhere on the USFS site.

http://www.usfsa.org/story?id=84188&menu=camps
http://www.usfsa.org/content/Athlete Information Guide Jump on It.pdf​

USFS social media was pretty quiet about the camp until a mini-flurry of retweets at the end.

Maddie Aaron, Max Settlage, Alex Johnson, Tim Dolensky were among those serving as team leaders.
Scott Dyer appeared to be assisting Frank Carroll at a coaching session.

ETA, Scott's comment on Instagram about demonstrating for the campers: https://www.instagram.com/p/BFcv4mKpkv7/​

The big group photo at the end of camp included Karen Chen and Vincent Zhou.​

Stuff gleaned from other (non-USFS) social media:

Per Karen's Instagram: she was an "athlete assistant" (not sure if that role was something different from team leader), and Surya Bonaly was there too.
Per Tom Z: Max Aaron was the keynote speaker; and Tessa Hong and Vincent helped TZ with an on-ice demo.

ETA, per a camper's comment: Max was a team leader as well.​

Per a different camper's comment: Tammy G and Raf also were among the coaches at the camp.

ETA, mini-vid of Raf coaching a camper's flip jump:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BFaGIJ9RhoB/​

ETA, looks as if Erik Schulz worked with campers with the "spinner" apparatus:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BFcThXQK2KT/
https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=d89b5df93c43f3df4ef9228420ac4be8&oe=57A0EE3B from https://www.facebook.com/DallasFSC/...580974206771/1063757387022454/?type=1&theater​

---

... I'm not a rich but, if I had been approached to help a skater I loved by sending them a $50 dollar donation, I most certainly would have sent a check to Maria Butyrskaya and I'd still send one to Joshua Farris. It doesn't sound like much but, we all know how quickly that money adds up and we all know the skaters could use it.

FYI, Josh's website has information as to how to donate money to support his training.
(Not posting a link, because I'm not sure whether GS guidelines would permit one in this thread.)

 

[Skater Boy]

I don't think you ever have to worry bout American ladies in skating. Sure there have been stronger years but even the lean years they had Sasha Cohen, Kimmie, Alissa, Rachel, Mirai, Gracie, Ashley and other skaters who potential could medal at the world level. Someone will rise to the top. 2018 is so far away; look at 2014 Yulia, Adelina are but a faded memory (okay a bit dramatic but the point is they aren't even in the top 5 in their nation. Things can change fast especially with young girls (not even ladies).

 

[desertskates]

I've read on a couple of occasions that Gracie seems very firm in her decision to retire after the Olympics. I really wish she consider sticking around another year or two after. I worry that putting a timeline like that out there, she'll be putting a tremendous amount of extra pressure on herself. Next year's Wolds and the Olympics is going to be a bloodbath for the ladies, and if she'd give herself a bit of extra time, she might just find that would be her time to shine.

 

[StitchMonkey]

I am not sure Gracie actually loves skating that much. I mean she has to have some affection for it to stick with it this long, but I think it is also something she may want to move on from.

Put it this way. There are people who love their job, but still still quit/retire if they won the lottery. They would give notice, train their replacement, go out on good terms and look back on it fondly... but would still move on and pursue something else given the chance. There are also those that love their job and would keep doing it in some capacity even if they won the lottery because they love doing it for more than a career. Neither is better and it is not a case of right or wrong, both can love their jobs, but just love it differently.

I think Gracie is a quit when she wins the lottery love.
Mao seems to be a good example of would keep doing the job out of love post lotto win.

I also don't think there is anything wrong with her viewing skating as her current career and treating it as such. Her wanting to purse other endeavors is fine, and perhaps even healthy. I think her love for skating is more about hard work and accomplishments than pure passion. I think she wants to move on eventually. Some people love their careers and never want to retire... others love their careers and look forward to retirement... nothing wrong with either.

 

[Jammers]

I am not sure Gracie actually loves skating that much. I mean she has to have some affection for it to stick with it this long, but I think it is also something she may want to move on from.

Put it this way. There are people who love their job, but still still quit/retire if they won the lottery. They would give notice, train their replacement, go out on good terms and look back on it fondly... but would still move on and pursue something else given the chance. There are also those that love their job and would keep doing it in some capacity even if they won the lottery because they love doing it for more than a career. Neither is better and it is not a case of right or wrong, both can love their jobs, but just love it differently.

I think Gracie is a quit when she wins the lottery love.
Mao seems to be a good example of would keep doing the job out of love post lotto win.

I also don't think there is anything wrong with her viewing skating as her current career and treating it as such. Her wanting to purse other endeavors is fine, and perhaps even healthy. I think her love for skating is more about hard work and accomplishments than pure passion. I think she wants to move on eventually. Some people love their careers and never want to retire... others love their careers and look forward to retirement... nothing wrong with either.

Gracie doesn't need to stay in as a competitive skater as long as Ashley has because lets' face it she's accomplished more at 20 then Ashley had at the same age. Ashley missed the Olympics at 18 while Gracie made the team and won her first National title so if she makes the team again in 2018 there really is no reason to continue on for a 3rd Olympics unless Gracie still hasn't won a World medal and really wants to win one before she retires. But i just don't see Gracie being like Carolina and needing to be at 4 Olympics.

 

[mrrice]

I think what Gracie needs after the Olympics is a break. She can do some of the things she hasn't been able to do because of her schedule. She can certainly tour as well. She may end up like Patrick and decide to come back as she's still quite young. Maybe she'll take a break and focus on helping her Sister get on the podium at nationals. She has a ton of choices.

 

[SarahSynchro]

Gracie doesn't need to stay in as a competitive skater as long as Ashley has because lets' face it she's accomplished more at 20 then Ashley had at the same age. Ashley missed the Olympics at 18 while Gracie made the team and won her first National title so if she makes the team again in 2018 there really is no reason to continue on for a 3rd Olympics unless Gracie still hasn't won a World medal and really wants to win one before she retires. But i just don't see Gracie being like Carolina and needing to be at 4 Olympics.

Yes, but what exactly has Gracie achieved at this point? 2x national champion, 2x national silver medalist, Olympic team bronze medalist, and.....that's the jist of it. Of course that's an impressive list of accomplishments in comparison to the average senior competitive figure skater, for sure it's nothing to snuff at, and there are many skaters out there who can only dream to achieve what Gracie has achieved, but I doubt Gracie herself looks at it that way and is satisfied with her results just because she did all these things under the age of 20. She wants success on the international stage but hasn't been fortunate enough to do so as of yet.

Ashley is a world silver medalist, 4CC champion, Olympic team bronze medalist, 3x GPF medalist, 3x national champion. Yes, she achieved all these titles after the age of 20, but I don't see how that matters or how it would make Gracie feel better about her own results. If anything, wouldn't it make Gracie want to keep trying?

 

[ice coverage]

Video excerpts of Tessa Hong's FS, posted by @drew_meekins

A few of my favorite moments from Tessa Hong's senior freeskate at Broadmoor Open last month. It was SO wonderful to see my choreography and vision come to life in her winning performance!
https://www.instagram.com/p/BH0Aag0DexL/ (posted Jul 13)​

 

[andromache]

I don't think it's fair for us as fans to decide what or project onto a skater should want or what their goals should be. While it might make sense to us that Gracie should want to continue on, especially if she has not won a world medal or something yet, there are also plenty of good reasons not to.

For one thing, at least as far as I understand, Gracie has always been one of the very hard-working skaters. She doesn't shirk off what she's supposed to do in practice. Full run-throughs every day, etc. It's probably tiring! And it's not something all skaters do! Regardless of her mental issues, she's almost always in top shape (except when coming off Nationals for 4CCs, lol).

And I also understand the desire to retire young before any lasting damage is done to her body, and young enough that she can have plenty of fun drinking beer, eating pizza, and getting a college degree. If that's the route she decides to go. The pursuit of other things, including fun, is important. Though as a Gracie fan, I'll be sad when she retires.

ETA: And just because some fans aren't happy with her results doesn't mean Gracie shouldn't be.

 

[StitchMonkey]

Do we know if Kaitlyn Nguyen has a coach yet? She was at the LA Open recently but the fan camps cut before we see any kiss and cry action.

 

[chuckm]

Yes, but what exactly has Gracie achieved at this point? 2x national champion, 2x national silver medalist, Olympic team bronze medalist, and.....that's the jist of it. Of course that's an impressive list of accomplishments in comparison to the average senior competitive figure skater, for sure it's nothing to snuff at, and there are many skaters out there who can only dream to achieve what Gracie has achieved, but I doubt Gracie herself looks at it that way and is satisfied with her results just because she did all these things under the age of 20. She wants success on the international stage but hasn't been fortunate enough to do so as of yet.

Ashley is a world silver medalist, 4CC champion, Olympic team bronze medalist, 3x GPF medalist, 3x national champion. Yes, she achieved all these titles after the age of 20, but I don't see how that matters or how it would make Gracie feel better about her own results. If anything, wouldn't it make Gracie want to keep trying?

There never is any good comparing someone else's career to one's own at any age. If US skaters measured themselves against Michelle Kwan, they'd all come up short.

Anyhow, in addition to her National Championships, Gracie also has a few GP medals to her credit, including a gold, so she has had international success. Finishing 4th at Gracie's first Olympics was a great achievement, and bettered Wagner's 7th by quite a bit.

 

[SarahSynchro]

There never is any good comparing someone else's career to one's own at any age. If US skaters measured themselves against Michelle Kwan, they'd all come up short.

Anyhow, in addition to her National Championships, Gracie also has a few GP medals to her credit, including a gold, so she has had international success. Finishing 4th at Gracie's first Olympics was a great achievement, and bettered Wagner's 7th by quite a bit.

Two golds, actually. TEB 2015 (still counts, despite only doing the SP) and NHK 2014.

I'm not disagreeing with you. As I said above, back on the 20th of May (Yeesh, long time ago), Gracie has accomplished a lot and should be proud of what she's achieved. I just think she'd be lying if she said she was satisfied with her track record so far: we KNOW she wants GPF, 4CC, Olympic (singles event) and Worlds medals. I don't blame her, who would?! I will be cheering loud if and when it happens, fingers crossed.

 

[frida80]

Do we know if Kaitlyn Nguyen has a coach yet? She was at the LA Open recently but the fan camps cut before we see any kiss and cry action.

She does. Her coach is Ivan Dinev. It must be working out well. She won that competition with about 160.

 

[sc8]

I don't think the American Ladies are going to be winning World/Olympic medals in the near future, aside from an obligatory Team Event Bronze in the Olympics, for the one or two ladies who get to participate in it. There are too many inconsistencies and the American ladies don't have that same kind of Russian intensity or Japanese calculus-skating to generate the necessary points. Nor will they be getting the benefit of an American-hosted event.

Sadly, I have to agree. Plus, a look at the depth in Juniors shows that Russia and Japan seem to have the next generation locked up pretty tightly. I would love to be surprised and see US Skating rebound or a surprise skater break through and dominate, but the armies of young skaters with talent are in Russia, Japan, and, to a lesser degree, South Korea. These countries are in the position the US was in during the last quarter of the 20th Century (1975-2000), with full rinks, increasing popularity, and champions that beget more champions.

 

[Skater Boy]

Well it is not impossible Gracie and Ashley could be first and second at worlds or the olympics. of course six skaters from Japan and Russia might have something to say plus Carolina. Both ladies have the potential though admittedly i would be cheering for the more consistent skaters even if it is for just a year cough cough Russia. I am just wondering if the ramping up technically in men, ladies and pairs is just a bit too much too fast that it is effecting the programs in a negative way.

 

[R.D.]

Worlds 2016 was a winnable(!) event for Gold, but unfortunately the moment got to her.

Wagner did just about the best she could (in the situation - a clean FS would not have won her the event), peaking late in the season probably for the first time ever in her career.

As for the future, it depends on whether Gold can find any sort of rhythm. For her it will be about overcoming the nerves. If she can, US should have a shot next year and perhaps even in 2018 as well.

 

[KatGrace1925]

Worlds 2016 was a winnable(!) event for Gold, but unfortunately the moment got to her.

Wagner did just about the best she could (in the situation - a clean FS would not have won her the event), peaking late in the season probably for the first time ever in her career.

As for the future, it depends on whether Gold can find any sort of rhythm. For her it will be about overcoming the nerves. If she can, US should have a shot next year and perhaps even in 2018 as well.

After Evgenia's score was announced, I think it is doubltful Gracie at her best could have scored high enough to surpass her. She needed a personal best to do it. At the time I thought she could but looking back the whole event scoring was a bit crazy.

 

[R.D.]

After Evgenia's score was announced, I think it is doubltful Gracie at her best could have scored high enough to surpass her. She needed a personal best to do it. At the time I thought she could but looking back the whole event scoring was a bit crazy.

She held a slim 3-pt lead over Medvedeva heading into the FS. With Med's 150, a 147 from Gold would have done the trick. If Wagner's effort was able to muster a 142, there is no doubt in my mind that a clean Gold bringing the house down would have netted high 140s, thus eeking out a slim win.

 

[Skater Boy]

I agree Gold could win whether deserved or not. Though it is possible Med would have done better in the short too.

 

[chuckm]

In the SP, Medved left off the combo on the 3f and had to add it to the loop. She got -GOE on the flip.