The Judging Controversy Thread

[pangtongfan]

I love how she says she thought, after Yuna finished, "Yes, welcome to the club! You've won another gold medal, too!" She sounds like she was excited to have another living member in the club.

The funniest thing of all was Witt deserved neither of her golds, yet ended up with 2. Yu Na Kim clearly deserved 2 and has only 1. Another examples of how medals/titles are such a meaningless way to judge skaters by in this corrupted sport, as I said in the Michelle Kwan no Olympic Gold = meaningless thread.

 

[vegarin]

i really wish someone knowledgeable could go onto a debate type program to discuss exactly what went down here... esp against someone supporting the results

Me, too, but even as Katarina Witt says she was ready to accept Yuna into the repeater's club and PCS scoring was not fair on CBC, Johnny and Tara are saying some other BS like athleticism (apparently this is Adelina) over artistry (Yuna) on NBC.

I mean, since when Yuna gets criticism for being too much of an artist and not much of an athlete? What are they smoking? I remember not too long ago that Yuna was actually criticized for being too athletic, since it was always her jumping prowess, consistency and her blade-to-ice skating skills that gave her a huge advantage, rather than spontaneity in artistry (e.g. Caro).

Seriously, this would never happen if Yuna was American.

 

[magicalwords]

Seriously, this would never happen if Yuna was American.

Nope. This whole thing would have never happened if Yuna was Russian!

 

[Ven]

Nope. This whole thing would have never happened if Yuna was Russian!

Everyone's forgetting Gracie's inflation. 129 clean in the team. 136 with a fall right on her *** in the LP.

Only three skaters saw total outlier scores in the ladies event ... and it wasn't just the Russians. There was another red flag too.
(and what makes it even more suspect, there wasn't even an American judge in the LP nor on the tech panel)

 

[Ven]

And I don't care if people call me a whack job, but Gracie's score is really suspect and lends credibility to the French newspaper report that the Russians and U.S. side teamed up to rig the results.

I'm also disgusted by the media campaign of lies in the U.S. Total red herring arguments to bury the dead bodies.

 

[Ophelia]

The way that people just buy into the media campaign makes me concerned for the population's critical thinking abilities, and opened my eye to how well the media can spin and throw things under the rug. Maybe we should start having mandatory classes that teach people what logical fallacies are.

 

[pangtongfan]

Everyone's forgetting Gracie's inflation. 129 clean in the team. 136 with a fall right on her *** in the LP.

Only three skaters saw total outlier scores in the ladies event ... and it wasn't just the Russians. There was another red flag too.
(and what makes it even more suspect, there wasn't even an American judge in the LP nor on the tech panel)

Well that makes sense. L Equipe reported it pre Olympics. Russia and U.S agreed to fix the whole skating competition in favor of those 2 countries. So Gold should have been overscored.

 

[Ven]

The way that people just buy into the media campaign makes me concerned for the population's critical thinking abilities

Well, they have no clue how the scoring goes. People just rely on the tv commentator to tell them everything is clean.

Maybe the whole point of CoP was to confuse everyone, and make cheating even easier. Like with anonymous judges.

IOC and ISU weren't angry at the cheating in 2002 ... they were angry the dirty laundry got out.

 

[Ven]

So Gold should have been overscored.

They couldn't keep Julia and Gracie upright though. Otherwise they would have joined Sotnikova on the podium, and clean Yuna and Caro (even clean Mao) would have got nothing.

Hell, Julia fell 3 times and still scored over 200.

 

[pangtongfan]

They couldn't keep Julia and Gracie upright though. Otherwise they would have joined Sotnikova on the podium, and clean Yuna and Caro (even clean Mao) would have got nothing.

Hell, Julia fell 3 times and still scored over 200.

The funny thing is I remember 6 months ago a thread predicting where everyone would finish if all clean and Sotnikova and Gold were about 6th and 7th and Julia was about 13th (if she even made the Olympics). Yet due to the pre arranged figure skating competition it turns out the real placements would have been gold Lipnitskaya (despite that she is an even poorer skater than Sotnikova), silver- Sotnikova, bronze-Gold if all were clean with perfect Asada, perfect Kim, and perfect Kostner all still not medalling. I am not sure if it is more sad or hilarious.

 

[Ophelia]

It isn't just about not understanding CoP scores. If someone showed me an infographic explaining how the numbers played out, I would think to ask WHY the numbers were assigned the way they were, instead of just thinking the numbers were magically right. The how does not explain the why.

@pangtong - I don't think Gracie would've made it onto the podium. I think it would've been Lipniskaia (if she didn't fall so badly in both segments), Sotnikova, and er...idk how Asada/Kim/Kostner would've played out. This is why I'm interested in knowing what the results would've been like if Asada skated a clean SP.

 

[Ven]

It isn't just about not understanding CoP scores. If someone showed me an infographic explaining how the numbers played out, I would think to ask WHY the numbers were assigned the way they were, instead of just thinking the numbers were magically right. The how does not explain the why.

They assume the people on tv are telling them the truth.

Look, maybe Johnny Weir and Tara Lipinski and Scott Hamilton honestly believe Sotnikova should have won. Maybe they don't understand CoP. Maybe they are just so jaded by riggaments, they are used to it and think everyone should play along. Maybe they love the sport, and think it would be catastrophic for a scandal to break out. I don't know.

But one thing I do know is that Adelina's score was not mathematically possible without rigging. That is all.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Everyone's forgetting Gracie's inflation. 129 clean in the team. 136 with a fall right on her *** in the LP.

Only three skaters saw total outlier scores in the ladies event ... and it wasn't just the Russians. There was another red flag too.

+
Sorry Ven if you dont want me too but I completey agree. I honestly think the ISU wants scores to trend up. They way overdid it on Adelina but that was partially because of Yuna's, shall I say unique, ability to garner massive scores. We can't forget Yuna was the last skater. With Yuna going last and anticipatating a +150 score so they hit the panic button which seems to trigger some pretty generous PCS apparently. I don't think this is fair but just a thought. I don't think anyone disputes the inflation. I don't and you know my uberisms toward Yulia but fair is fair, or unfair I could say. After all I think a clean Yulia could have earned a spot on the podium with nothing but non-russian judges but alas she cleaned the ice up a bit for the other girls. Oh well. The question is why are they inflating them so much. I think they want to see Yuna's records broken over the next two quads. Will the skating be better. Most likely not but it can be as good.....but in different ways. My gas prices go up and it's the same gas. There will only be one Yuna and I will always remember her class as a person more than anything else.

 

[jehan215]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SV4sfY2ou_I&feature=youtu.be&a

That one was the interview with CBC Sports. The one I saw was her commentating afterwards in German. I speak German so I understood, but I guess you can use the translation function? - though it obviously would be a bit off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vT07-Jc00jQ

 

[Ven]

+
Sorry Ven if you dont want me too but I completey agree. I honestly think the ISU wants scores to trend up. They way overdid it on Adelina but that was partially because of Yuna's, shall I say unique, ability to garner massive scores. With Yuna going last and anticipatating a +150 score so they hit the panic button which seems to trigger some pretty generous PCS apparently. I don't think this is fair but just a thought. I don't think anyone disputes the inflation. I don't and you know my uberisms toward Yulia but fair is fair, or unfair I could say. After all I think a clean Yulia could have earned a spot on the podium with nothing but non-russian judges but alas she cleaned the ice up a bit for the other girls. Oh well. The question is why are they inflating them so much. I think they want to see Yuna's records broken over the next two quads. Will the skating be better. Most likely not but it can be as good.....but in different ways. My gas prices go up and it's the same gas. Sorry to agree. There will only be one Yuna and I will always remember her class as a person more than anything else.

If they wanted scores to go up, then it would have happened across the board. I think most of us saw Adelina's 149 and shocking as it was, thought a clean Yuna would get a new WR.

No...only 3 skaters saw uncanny increase in PCS at the olympics. Only 3...Julia, Adelina, and Gracie. Nobody else.

Someone posted a graph of PCS over the last year for all of the ladies ....check out the chart and you'll see gradual lines up at the top, up and down chop at the bottom, but then three skaters skyrocket in the last few weeks.

(just so happens to coincide with the French newspaper report btw)

 

[Ophelia]

Julia's scores as well.

I wish the current media attention doesn't just focus on Sotnikova vs. Kim, but the bigger issue of how the game was rigged in favor of Russian skaters in general. I feel like many inexperienced skating viewers will view the situation as the Russians singling out Sotnikova and Kim and have a hard time believing how they could've predicted Sotnikova in advance, when the result was simply part of a bigger game at play.

 

[Ven]

And it makes me sick and embarrassed as an American to feel like our side was cheating, but that's where all of the circumstantial evidence points, I'm afraid.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

If they wanted scores to go up, then it would have happened across the board. I think most of us saw Adelina's 149 and shocking as it was, thought a clean Yuna would get a new WR.

No...only 3 skaters saw uncanny increase in PCS at the olympics. Only 3...Julia, Adelina, and Gracie. Nobody else.

Someone posted a graph of PCS over the last year for all of the ladies ....check out the chart and you'll see gradual lines up at the top, up and down chop at the bottom, but then three skaters skyrocket in the last few weeks.

I am not saying it's all going to happen at once. These girls during this olympic season are the first ones with many more to come. I'm not disputing who received it in any way. Just trying to think bigger than just Sochi...cause I think its much bigger and involves the buisness side of the ISU and their trending in certain markets.

 

[Ven]

Julia's scores as well.

I wish the current media attention doesn't just focus on Sotnikova vs. Kim, but the bigger issue of how the game was rigged in favor of Russian skaters in general. I feel like many inexperienced skating viewers will view the situation as the Russians singling out Sotnikova and Kim and have a hard time believing how they could've predicted Sotnikova in advance, when the result was simply part of a bigger game at play.

Carolina was cheated out of a silver too (ok, some people might even say gold, but I won't go that far).

Imagine if Adelina had a reasonable score and got bronze over Gracie (who fell). We could be debating OGM between Yuna and Carolina. And that would be a real debate, without conspiracy. That would just be two sides debating for the next 20 years but no sense of improper scandal.

But no, instead we have this ********.

 

[jehan215]

Carolina was cheated out of a silver too (ok, some people might even say gold, but I won't go that far).

Imagine if Adelina had a reasonable score and got bronze over Gracie (who fell). We could be debating OGM between Yuna and Carolina. And that would be a real debate, without conspiracy. That would just be two sides debating for the next 20 years but no sense of improper scandal.

But no, instead we have this ********.

Ooh yes that would've been a real nail biter