Thoughts on TEB

[R.D.]

On the subject of Sasha, I would like to quote a comment a poster from the SkateFans Yahoo group made:

After I saw her skate the other day, I thought about how interesting
her last 4 years have been with her various choices in coaching. She
finished 4th at the Olympics in 2002 and believed she needed something
new, prompting her to leave Nicks. Now she's made her way back to
Nicks, and I can't help but have this feeling that she'll be 4th again.

Very interesting. What does one think? Suppose her entire journey ends up with her placing 4th at the Olympics- again? How's that for an ending? And then all of a sudden, Kwan isn't alone...

 

[mzheng]

I can see Sasha winning the US Nats, but even there, if Alissa stays on her roll, it will not be easy. Alissa has all the extensions, and maybe a 3x3 which she will risk.
Joe

About spins and programs, just heard some interesting comments from my daughter. She is now having habbit of watching FS tapes or clips ( from old competetions even before she was born) and doing homework at the same time.

She said Alissa is a natual spiner, she must have some swiss blood inside her, while Sasha is not as natual as Alissa, though Sasha can hit good position in spin but her speed and centering is not coming as natual as Alissa.

She also said the best programs and musics were from 2004, and this 2006 Olympics music and programs in general worse than 2002. (these are the years I have complete set of tape from worlds and olympics.).....The dance teams all look slow now compared with before the CoP. Yeah they have difficulty now, but the programs just don't look beautyful....the other day she was watch a dance pair who skated to 'The Feeling Begin' (sorry can't spell the names), she said yeah they have the difficulty in lift all that, but those positions just 'ugly' (you know all those teenage words) the program just can't compare to the team (Yevgani Platov?? spelling, now that's one of my favorate team) skated at 1997.

As of now she is watching TEB, Shizuka's LP...."If you can't do a bielmann well, just don't do it. It looks like Yevgani Plushenko's bielmann, it just damn ugly" (excuse teenage languge)....

So if the trend goes, I guess she'll never spend a dime on alive FS competetion. Even she loved figure skating herself when she was a kid, back then we had to trade her figure skating lessons with piano lessons.

 

[perry125]

How many points is a good scratch spin worth versus a poor bielman?
a good camel spin versus a traveling jellyfish spin?

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

How many points is a good scratch spin worth versus a poor bielman?
a good camel spin versus a traveling jellyfish spin?

Good questions, Perry - Apparently in the NJS all the elements that are permitted have a base value so a skater just gets a few points deducted if the spin is poor while the lesser base valued spin just gets the base and may a tiny bit more for excellence.

Joe

 

[Vash01]

I loved Sasha's program. It is beautiful. I have to agree she deserved the victory. Sasha was way underscored. She does everything better then others but she gets no credit for it. I wish she would add two russian splits to the ending, and then just end with the layback.:thumbsup:

I agree that it is a beautiful program and it was good enough to win (but Shizuka deserved the victory, IMO). I disagree that she does 'everything' better than others. She has the best lines, spiral sequence, the best Russian splits, and she is one of the best spinners. However, several skaters are better than her in the following areas:

Deep edges, speed across the ice, secure jumps and overall consistency.

These things count a lot in the overall score. It did not help that she fell on the 3salchow, but even landing that jump would not have made her the best in 'everything'.

I do prefer her mature style to Mao's delightful but yet to develop style. Mao does have deeper edges and speed across the ice, and most important of all, more difficult jumps that she seems to land with "nonchalance"- in Wylie's words. Sasha's PCS scores could have been slightly higher, but I don't think they could have overcome the deficit in the TES scores.

Vash

 

[Mathman]

How many points is a good scratch spin worth versus a poor bielman? A good camel spin versus a traveling jellyfish spin?

To quantify Joe's answer:

A good scratch spin or camel gets you diddly-squat.

No, I mean, an exceptionally good level 1 scratch spin or camel spin with +1 GOE gives you a grand total of 1.7 points. That's 1.2 base value and +1 GOE factored at .5.

The Bielmann, jellyfish, etc., do not get specific point values per se, but they count as "changes of position." A level four combo spin with several changes of position, even with a -1 GOE, gives you 3.0 points (3.5 base value minus 1x.5) GOE.

(There ought to be a mandatory ugly deduction for anyone who does a jellyfish, starting with Johnny Weir, LOL.)

To paraphrase Robin Cousins in this month's Blades on Ice, we will never see a well done camel, layback or scratch spin again.

MM

 

[mzheng]

I guess with the way CoP designed and applied (the well executed low level spin in general can't overcome the slopy executed upper level spin in points) some of the classic FS move will soon become Dinosaur. Anyone see classic layback spin (with arm in moon position, free leg turn out paralle to ice) any more this season? It just occured to me yesterday when I watch the tapes and clips from this season. I diddn't see any.

 

[Vash01]

I guess with the way CoP designed and applied (the well executed low level spin in general can't overcome the slopy executed upper level spin in points) some of the classic FS move will soon become Dinosaur. Anyone see classic layback spin (with arm in moon position, free leg turn out paralle to ice) any more this season? It just occured to me yesterday when I watch the tapes and clips from this season. I diddn't see any.

That's a shame. I would rather see a perfectly executed scratch or camel or layback spin that expresses the music than a sloppily executed spin with variations in positions that have no connection with the music. I think you are right that these lovely moves performed by the likes of Dorothy Hamill and others could become extinct.

Vash