Thoughts on TEB

[Linny]

comfort level

Yeah, it's not fair to judge a skater by their track record. The performance in front of you is the one that the judges are supposed to be judging...

but

don't you just find yourself watching and waiting for Sasha to fall?

Every landing at TEB just seemed to be squeaked out, as per Sasha's SOP.

Surely this contributed to the PCS scores.

Still, in all, there were 2 points difference in PCS from Mao to Cohen. Perhaps it should have been 4-5 points difference. Wouldn't have changed the placement though!

Linny

 

[R.D.]

don't you just find yourself watching and waiting for Sasha to fall?

I know I do

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I agree- I would never say Sasha has good body language myself either.

You got it. Body Language is an innate quality where the body automatically flows with the music and theme. Posing and facial expressions are choreographed.

However, in that one instant, Sasha did make a great pose, but it was not body language. She was much too cautious in making a clean routine to do anything so automatic. IMO, Irina is much too cautious. Nothing seems 'her' in her routine. Look for Kwan's nuances that one knows are not choreographed. It's just her. Also Bebe, she has body language - not the same kind. But she is an original.

The teenagers just flow through their routines without care. They are fun to watch. I prefer Alissa to Mao but that's a personal preference.

The GP Final should be a dandy with these three Ladies. Not so much for who wins (that's obvious at this point in time) but who in your heart is a better performing skater if one takes away the technical, especially the jumps.

Joe

 

[Spirit]

Trophee Eric Bompard

Gotcha. Thanks.

See, I just call it "Paris."

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

.
I often question the ability of the judges...I trust that they are all great at evaluating the technical aspects of figure skating, but after recognizing the obvious, how exactly good are they at appreciating the more subtle areas of skating?

I think we all are finally getting this point. There were so many kudoos for the new system in its early stages. All will be fair. yeah.

But even in the 6.0 system where technical prowess was rewarded but that same skater was not really a performer, would still get marks close to the one who did show a first rate performance. It was simply the judge(s) finagling the scores for his personal favorite.

More difficult with CoP than 6.0 but still very possible.

Joe

 

[gezando]

Asada had a joie de patinage (joy in skating) style. It got gold medals for Oksana and Tara. It takes preference over the more serious skaters. Doing so many 3x2s with the joy (and not the scare others have) is a winner both in tech and pcs. that's the way it's been in skateland.

Joe

I too wonder why the so call mature skaters are not rewarded at times, e.g. when Angela, SArah and Cohen were competing for 2 olys spots, only Sarah and Sasha were chosen. If that is the way its been in skateland, then all skaters were young once. Only the rare few are able to combine the tech and the PCS into winning performances. Skating is a sport, medals are awarded to the one who outskated the rest of the field in that particular event. Medals are not awarded as life time achievement. Tara, Oksana took the opportunity and raised their game in a moment that counted the most. The current WUZ robbed cries is interesting to see, LOL Cohen too received preference over some more serious skaters when she was young

There will always be cries of WUZ robbed from the so call more mature skaters fans. They used to call Tara a jumping bean, then in the new system, jumps are actually not as well rewarded (Goebel's comment on quads are not properly rewarded) and spins, and transitions etc are rewarded more. So young skaters look at the rules and prepare themselves according to the rules. Mao won by the new rules, and now she is call a jumping bean and a spinning top. She is not allowed to even participate in olys even though she has good enough skating skills to beat the reiginig world silver medalist at TEB. Mao will not return her GP medals b/c she earned that by outskating others according to the COP rules, wheter Susie et al forgive her or not.

 

[flowjo35]

Points from the seven jumping passes:

1. Mao 47.5
2. Shizuka 36.7
3. Sasha 36.5

So the judges agreed with your evaluation that Sasha and Shizuka deserve the highest presentation scores.

But little Mao just absolutely creamed them on jumps. She won, not because the judges "like" a cute little jumping bean, but because points do add up.

Opinions and impressions are nice, but you can't argue with 7.1+6.3+6.4+3.7+9.0+6.7+8.3 = 47.5.

MM

MM

It's all a points game, even Sasha stated that when she was interviewed during the competition. It's all about how to get the most points you can from a program and Mao did that with her jumps and having most of her combo's after the 2 minute mark to get bonus points. The judges don't seem to be looking for mature programs now, but caculating the points of each element like a check list. Unfortunately that's what skating seems to be about know, not the beauty and being sweep away with the skater and their programs.

 

[ladybug]

Most of the skaters look like they are in a frenzy. Doing the footwork they are trying for a level 4 but the constant turns in both directions actually look sloppy. I also question how a skater can fall a couple of times and stumble out of some of their jumps and still get hight PCS scores. That ruins a program for me. I don't notice the level 4 spins because I am remembering that terrible jumping pass I just saw 30 seconds before.

How is the once every four year skating fan going to accept these results let alone understand them. 6.0 wasn't perfect but neither is the NJS and the judges can cheat under both systems. I can't see what we have accomplished.

Add to that the power of the caller. Everyone has a favorite and so do they. If it isn't a particular skater then maybe a particular style. How many times do they question the Caller's call. Maybe they are talked to at the end of the night but by then it is too late. Sometimes that bad call is the difference between gold and silver. Not too bad at the GP but what about the Worlds or the Olympics. That can spell disaster.

Ladybug

 

[R.D.]

How is the once every four year skating fan going to accept these results let alone understand them. 6.0 wasn't perfect but neither is the NJS and the judges can cheat under both systems. I can't see what we have accomplished.

Add to that the power of the caller. Everyone has a favorite and so do they. If it isn't a particular skater then maybe a particular style. How many times do they question the Caller's call. Maybe they are talked to at the end of the night but by then it is too late. Sometimes that bad call is the difference between gold and silver. Not too bad at the GP but what about the Worlds or the Olympics. That can spell disaster.

ITA.

The weird thing, though, is that the majority of the skaters and coaches (that I know of anyway) seem to like this new system. But it's still got a lot of bugs in it. Can we rely on the system (given a caller and some judges) to give us a fair result in Torino next year? Stay tuned.

 

[nymkfan51]

ITA.
The weird thing, though, is that the majority of the skaters and coaches (that I know of anyway) seem to like this new system.

I'm not so sure about this anymore RD. I think the initial reaction by skaters and coaches was very positive, but I believe we are already starting to see the rumblings of dissatisfaction beginning. Johnny Weir for one ... and, I am betting that Sasha isn't quite as sure right now about this NJS as she was the past few years. The look on her face in the K&C seemed a bit perplexed to me.
IMO we are likely to see more outward complaints about COP as time goes on.
Just wait till after the Olympics when skaters and coaches don't feel they have to be so politically correct!

"Mr. Speedy, I have a complaint."

"Yeah, well ... take a number!"

 

[Mathman]

Most of the skaters look like they are in a frenzy. Doing the footwork they are trying for a level 4 but the constant turns in both directions actually look sloppy...

This is so true. Also, for spins, all those contortionist changes of position do nothing except make the performer look ridiculous.

What is being thrown out is the secure gliding edge and the exquisite well-cenetered scratch spin -- the heart and soul of figure skatung, IMHO.

MM

 

[flying camel]

I loved Sasha's program. It is beautiful. I have to agree she deserved the victory. Sasha was way underscored. She does everything better then others but she gets no credit for it. I wish she would add two russian splits to the ending, and then just end with the layback.:thumbsup:

 

[Mathman]

I loved Sasha's program. It is beautiful. I have to agree she deserved the victory. Sasha was way underscored. She does everything better then others but she gets no credit for it. I wish she would add two russian splits to the ending, and then just end with the layback.:thumbsup:

I do, too.

But that would not get as many points as her current extended spins ending does. However ineffective the current ending might be in the context of the whole program, that's two level threes at the end. It's all about the points.

MM

 

[Dee4707]

don't you just find yourself watching and waiting for Sasha to fall?
Linny

No, I don't!!!!! I just enjoy watching her and if she falls, she falls. So have lots of other skaters, why would I just wait to see her fall???? Seems like a waste to me.

Dee

 

[euterpe]

My husband likes Sasha, but he is always all jittery because he knows she's going to fall. And when she does, he gets SO disgusted I have to laugh.

 

[cianni]

R D

I can assure you the skating community is not thrilled about the NJS. I hear it everyday. The judges have figured out how to cheat and they know it. This is no longer skating but Ice Calculating and the spot of Ice Skating no longer exists. Dont underestimate the 4 yr. fan nor the skating community neither are blind or stupid. There is NO difference in the systems they cheat in both and the only saving grace will be IF the winner of the OGM blows the roof the arena leaving no question will we continue to SEE the comps on TV. Its a business and the viewers have to tune in for the networks to invest. Im not betting on a clean OLYS. You can fool some of the people some of the time but not all of the people all of the time. Speedy will learn this the hard way.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I don't think there was a huge problem in Sasha's program. I would have given her first but I look for things in skating that some judges do not. Sasha had those things.

However, she was up against a new teenybopper to skateland who has the goods to get the points. Sasha, imo, will have to try to take risks but a risky skater she is not (remember that quad?). there's not much more she can do with the extensions. She has them all. The routine is quite lovely (unexpected by me) if not exciting. The spins are more than adequate especially the I spin and now the bielman, but the jumps,which are all adequate are just not up to the Japanese and Russian compertitors.

I can see Sasha winning the US Nats, but even there, if Alissa stays on her roll, it will not be easy. Alissa has all the extensions, and maybe a 3x3 which she will risk.

Stay tuned there are still things to look at before the Olys.

Joe

 

[R.D.]

I can assure you the skating community is not thrilled about the NJS. I hear it everyday. The judges have figured out how to cheat and they know it. This is no longer skating but Ice Calculating and the spot of Ice Skating no longer exists. Dont underestimate the 4 yr. fan nor the skating community neither are blind or stupid. There is NO difference in the systems they cheat in both and the only saving grace will be IF the winner of the OGM blows the roof the arena leaving no question will we continue to SEE the comps on TV. Its a business and the viewers have to tune in for the networks to invest. Im not betting on a clean OLYS. You can fool some of the people some of the time but not all of the people all of the time. Speedy will learn this the hard way.

Very interesting. Does this talk come from a local rink or something?

That's the scary part of all this. Is there going to be a backlash after the dust has settled? Will the skaters and fans and coaches finally start seeing problems with this new system? Once again, I think Turin 2006 is either going to go very smoothly or very roughly. If there is a big Torino scandal to accompany the SLC scandal, you bet there's trouble in paradise.

 

[nymkfan51]

I think a lot of these skaters are being politically correct right now, in as much as they don't want to be dog meat in the eyes of the judges in an Olympic season.
But watch out next year, is all I have to say!

 

[R.D.]

However, she was up against a new teenybopper to skateland who has the goods to get the points. Sasha, imo, will have to try to take risks but a risky skater she is not (remember that quad?). there's not much more she can do with the extensions. She has them all. The routine is quite lovely (unexpected by me) if not exciting. The spins are more than adequate especially the I spin and now the bielman, but the jumps,which are all adequate are just not up to the Japanese and Russian compertitors.

That's the issue for Cohen. How much more can she do?

One thing for her to focus on would be EXECUTION. If she can maximize her strengths and perform what she has to the best of her ability, there should be no regrets on her part. However, she will run the risk of being outperformed by a risk-taker like, say Irina. Or even Shizuka if she can repeat a Dortmund-2004 FS performance. But I would say if she can perform to the BEST of her ability (without adding anything else) she's guaranteed at least a bronze medal.