- Joined
- Jul 2, 2014
Because she's banned?Why isnt Tonya in the hall of fame for being the first american woman to land triple axels?
Because she's banned?Why isnt Tonya in the hall of fame for being the first american woman to land triple axels?
Surprised by lack of Gracie nods. Lack of major world individual medal notwithstanding, she has won two national titles and was the face of US skating for basically a whole quad, a serious medal threat for numerous worlds and Grand Prix events, and a major factor in team Olympic bronze medal in 2014. That is certainly enough for inclusion in USHOF.
Ashley has better credentials IMO, but Gracie is next, then maaaybe Mirai, but Mirai has spent too much time as a has been / forgotten champ I think to be a solid contender.
I think Gracie isn't in the conversation because she is in the middle of a comeback. I would think that she would be in the conversation otherwise, but she's talking about 2022. Mirai and Ashley are likely done (although neither have confirmed that). But in ways Alyssa's Grand Prix Final win gives her more clout than Gracie as they both have two national titles and neither title is back to back. They are two of my favorites, so I'm thrilled if when the time comes that they are both inducted.
agree with this. Ashley is 100% in the front when it comes to looking at wins, medals, accomplishments, etc. I think if Gracie has a successful next 4 years (consistently medaling on the GP, earning trips to the GP final/medaling there, consecutive trips to worlds and a possible podium berth, continuing to medal/win nationals) she should absolutely be in consideration as well. Here's some numbers on Alissa, Mirai, Gracie, and Ashley in their senior careers for comparison:
Alissa Czisny, senior career: 2004-2014
4 national medals, 2 are gold
8 Grand Prix medals, 3 are gold
3 trips to GPF, 1 gold medal
3 trips to 4CC, highest placement is 5th
4 trips to Worlds, highest placement is 5th
0 Olympics
Mirai Nagasu, senior career 2007-present (break 2018-2019 or retired)
7 national medals, 1 is gold
4 Grand Prix medals
0 trips to GPF
3 trips to Worlds, highest placement is 7th
4 trips to 4CC, 3 medals
2 trips to Olympics, highest placement is 4th
Gracie Gold, senior career 2013-present (break from 2017-2018)
4 national medals, 2 are gold
6 GP medals, 2 are gold
1 trip to GPF, placed 5th (qualified in 2014 but WD)
3 trips to 4CC, highest placement is 4th
4 trips to Worlds, highest placement is 4th (2015 & 2016)
1 Olympics, 4th place
Ashley Wagner, senior career 2007-present (break 2018-2019 or retired)
10 national medals, 3 are gold
14 GP medals, 5 are gold
5 trips to GPF, 3 medals
2 trips to 4CC, 1 gold medal
7 trips to Worlds, 1 medal
1 Olympics, 7th place
Ashley, Gracie and Mirai also have Olympic medals.
If Ashley is not inducted into the USFS Hall of fame I will be indignant. Whether you like her or not she was the one consistent US woman for 10 years, winning Grand Prix events (5 gold), GPF medals, 4CC gold and world silver. Mirai, other than landing a 3A at the Olympics does not have the credentials. Gracie should be more in the conversation than Mirai.
Ashley, Kimmie and Mirai all belong there. All three are US Champions and Olympians. Mirai and Ashley have Olympic medals. Kimmie is a former World Champion and Ashley is a World silver medalist.
Based on this criteria, Gracie belongs there as well, since she is a US champion and Olympian as well.
(An argument could be made for Kimmie for being a World Champ, but come on, she won WGM at a very watered-down and weak WC. Mirai completed exactly one ratified 3A in international competition - which a huge accomplishment - but has little else to recommend her besides being a fan favorite.)
I guess I'm in favor of a pretty strict Hall of Fame though. That's just me.
i meant next after Ashley.Why in the world would Gracie come next? This coming from one who stans Gracie and dislikes Ashley. Being "the face" of US skating is not an actual athletic accomplishment, and neither is existing as a "medal threat. " Now, when she beats her disease, comes back and wins some titles, then let's talk HOF. Ashley Wagner has all of Gracie's accomplishments and then some. IMO, she has been "the face" of US skating just as much as Gracie has this generation. Only issue with her is she doesn't know how to keep her ego in check, and has probably ruined her own reputation with USFS by acting like an entitled brat, including throwing a very generous opportunity of going to the World Championships back in their faces. Can't see them appreciating any of that very much.
If the Hall of Fame Committee continues with their apparent policy of requiring OGM or WGM, or at least multiple world silvers for induction, they must realize it may be a long long time before another US lady enters the Hall. ...
If the committee recognizes that international competition has changed the playing field, they may want to modify their eligibility. ...
It is not altogether clear what the criteria are, and in fact, I think that decisions are made on a case by case basis. For instance, Punsalan and Swallow are in, even though their highest finish at the Olympics was 7th and their highest finish in five trips to worlds was 6th. But they won U.S. nationals 5 times (8 medals altogether). And they deserve credit for being first U.S. ice dance team that attracted international buzz (or at least wuz-robbin') and paved the way for Belbin and Agosto and Davis and White. There is also a fairly large number of Hall of Famers in non-skating categories, such as service to the USFSA (or being cartoonist Charles Schultz or inventor Frank Zamboni ).
In the past, for ladies there were never really any decisions to make. All of the ladies before Ashley who won three or more U.S. championships also had international credentials that made their induction no-brainers.
I don't think its fair to Kimmie to basically say her WC Gold is diminished because of the field.
Sasha Cohen was at that same WC and finished third. Kimmie did very well there too.
Its not like she had a poor performance and won because others did worse.
IIRC her FS score was 125 and that was great at the time.
Kimmie also won a National Championship and the year before land a triple axel at Nationals.
I don't really remember Elaine Zayak - except for the Zayak Rule, but "on paper" Kimmie's career is similar.
I would consider Mirai also.
Her triple axel at the Olympics was a HUGE deal and even if it was her only ratified one, it is one more than the 99.9% of all other ladies in history.
She is also a 2 time Olympian, and possibly could have been a 3 time Olympian (at least she made a strong case for herself in 2014 with her Nationals performance)
I guess I'm not as strict, but I guess we will see eventually who gets in.
Continuing with the list of successful US ladies 2005-Present, i'll list the final 4, one who has a chance for the HOF.
The first is Christina Gao. She made 4 Continents once, had a 4th place. Made the GPF once thanks to weak SA competition, and finished a distant 6th. She had 8 regular Grand Prix, earning a silver. At Nationals, she had four 5th place finishes in a row, followed with an 8th and 11th when her interests moved to Harvard.
Agnes Z. was in 4 continents twice, with a 6th and 8th. She had 8 GPs, earning a bronze. At nationals, she had 2 bronzes and a 4th. Money problems caused her to end her competitive career. She was a tall skater with big jumps.
Gold entered the senior scene in 2012-2013, She was a leader in the Sochi Olympics, getting a 4th, and finishing 2nd personally in the team skate earning a team bronze.
She has two 4th place finishes at Worlds, along with a 5th and 6th, all respectable. In World Team Trophy, She has two 3rds and a 5th personally. In one GPF she got 5th, while in regular GP's, she has a high percentage of medals, 2 golds, 2 silvers, 2 bronze in 10 entries. Her Nationals performances were competitive from her debut, alternating championships with Wagner from 2013 through 2016. She, along with Wagner, dominated US ladies 2013-2016. She, along with possibly Nagasu, was the most talented US skater of her era. Regardless of the success of her comeback, she has, IMO, already done enough for HOF consideration.
I find Edmunds a most interesting skater. She made the Olympic team as a first year senior, pushing past vets Nagasu and Wagner at the Boston nationals. She finished 9th at Sochi, and has two 8th place worlds finishes. She was at 4CC once and won, At Nationals, she finished 2, 4th and 2nd again in 2016 after a superb short, barely overtaken by a strong Gold FS. She then withdrew from 2016 4cc and Worlds with a bone bruise. With college conflicts and continuing bone bruise problems, she again WD from the San Jose FS. I am not sure if she is done, or will continue. She was one of the most confident US skaters ever, being totally unaffected by pressure.
Karen and Tennell are in the middle of their careers, and need to be looked at in the future.