Wagner Takes on Her Critics

[Krunchii]

Her honesty and bluntness is so refreshing, but a lot of "criticism" I see comes on Instagram and Twitter where it's not even constructive so maybe it would be a better use of her time not to respond to them, as much as I love her she has a lot of stuff to work on to match those Russians skaters

Not really. Liza has perfect jumps, Lena is one of the more expressive skaters, Yulia is very flexible. Everyone has something that stands out. I guess Pogo is the only one who's a bit generic.

You can also argue that Adelina has perfect jumps (when her nerves aren't in the way), Anna has big jumps too, Elena is very expressive but Adelina when she's on is also quite energetic and extroverted, lots of people think Yulia is expressive too because of Schindler's List, Adelina and Elena are also extremely flexible, to a casual viewer these kinds of things are interchangeable, they're all young, petite ladies with insane technical prowess, you really have to delve deeper to see how the combination of these qualities work together and set each girl apart, which we do, but not everyone else

 

[EdgeCall]

You can also argue that Adelina has perfect jumps (when her nerves aren't in the way), Anna has big jumps too, Elena is very expressive but Adelina when she's on is also quite energetic and extroverted, lots of people think Yulia is expressive too because of Schindler's List, Adelina and Elena are also extremely flexible, to a casual viewer these kinds of things are interchangeable, they're all young, petite ladies with insane technical prowess, you really have to delve deeper to see how the combination of these qualities work together and set each girl apart, which we do, but not everyone else

I agree about the casual viewer. To elaborate on the ladies' differences would be too lengthy and too OT. I am surprised though that someone as deep into this sport as Ashley can make such a superficial statement about her competitors.

 

[MK's Winter]

Really? What do you know about the sacrifices that their families had to make? Yulia, Adelina and the rest did have the "nice apartments" and support once they got results, like everybody else. Yulia's mom sold her apartment and went to Moscow, which is very expensive, and made a gamble. I'm sure Adelina had her own issues too. Do you have any idea what Plushenko went through before becoming a champion? Trankov, and many others who made a lot of sacrifices? I don't mind her playing the Queen of the "mature" and "artistic" skating. As someone said above this is nothing compared to other sports, but I find it quite offensive when someone pretends to know what these skaters have done to be where they are and dismiss it.

I agree with this. Russians have an ideal training situation when they do well internationally. There is so much that is given up before hand to get there though. I read somewhere that Adelina pays for her sister's medical care. Some of these girls become the sole source of income for their families. Very poor choice of words on her part, especially since she has had to work to support her skating at one point.

I think Ashley is a very expressive skater one of the best but she will never be a Carolina Kostner.

 

[Sjs5572]

Really? What do you know about the sacrifices that their families had to make?
Yulia, Adelina and the rest did have the "nice apartments" and support once they got results, like everybody else.
Yulia's mom sold her apartment and went to Moscow, which is very expensive, and made a gamble.
I'm sure Adelina had her own issues too. Do you have any idea what Plushenko went through before becoming a champion? Trankov, and many others who made a lot of sacrifices?

I don't mind her playing the Queen of the "mature" and "artistic" skating. As someone said above this is nothing compared to other sports, but I find it quite offensive when someone pretends to know what these skaters have done to be where they are and dismiss it.

The difference is, in the USA, even those with good results don't get much. The "team envelopes" are a joke. Coaches and choreographers are paid out of pocket. The only skaters who do okay are those with commercial endorsements like Gracie Gold, and Ashley. It is almost impossible for an indigent kid to make it as a skater in the USA. I argue that the Soviet "cradle to crown" system created Russian dominance in figure skating, the Soviet downfall led to financial struggles for skaters like Pluschenko, and the Sochi/Putin industrial complex has led to a resurgence of opportunities for the new generation of skaters.

 

[Alba]

^ I'm also curious about that. I read previously that Trankov could only eat once a day before because he didn't have any money during training. Basically, I just think that every one struggles financially in the beginning to support their skating. Even Yuna's mom had to make financial sacrifices for Yuna before.

Exactly.
Trankov didn't even had a place to sleep, so he was basically sleeping in a military compound, illegally I think.
Plushenko was a child when he left his home, all alone in Saint Petersburg. There is a docu on youtube and his mom speaks about that period and how difficult it was with tears in her eyes. He also got the worse time, during the 90, for Russia.
Adelina has a sister who's sick, and I don't think they are a rich family.
Yes the federation do support them once they become somebody, or show results, but as you said they all struggle before that.

I travelled with a judge going to Bordeaux. Just by chance he was sitting next to me.
We talked about skaters and in particular this point. He told me; "You have no idea the sacrifices that many skaters have to make.
I feel for them and I admire them for this."

Personally, that's one of the reasons why I don't like that much bashing skaters, no matter how much I may dislike their skating.
I don't care that much when it happens to the football players , because they are all millionaires.
Even the worst of them compared to a figure skater is a millionaire, for a sport which is not as half as difficult as the FS.


@Sjs5572: Yes, it's true about the difference in the systems and the support they get once they have results.
However, I do not see this as a valid argument to say that "hey, they've had an easy life" or "Russian girls didn't have to work". That's my point.

 

[Sjs5572]

I think a lot of the Russian girls worked pretty hard to get where they are. You seem to imply they had it easy in relation to Ashley. I'm aware of her part time job to help support her skating but I think if you see how some of the Russian girls worked hard to skate their family into a better life you might not be so cut and dry with your statement.

For Example Serafima just moved to Moscow and left half of her family to pursue her love. The St Petersburg fed couldn't support her any more and her only option was to move to Moscow and seek out the federations funding via eteri's group.

On top of that ...are the Russian girls even old enough to have jobs that could cover the costs of skating and is this a precedent we should be encouraging?

I am sure that Russian skaters work harder than anyone, but the ones that make it can concentrate on skating. Russian bronze medalists do not have to work part time to pay for training or choreographers. Indigent Russian skaters can have extreme stresses due to the financial hardships of everyday living, but at least training is available to those who show promise.

And no, we shouldn't encourage 15 year old kids to work....but we shouldn't dismiss the work requirements to make it as a less than wealthy North American skater

 

[Alba]

they're all young, petite ladies with insane technical prowess, you really have to delve deeper to see how the combination of these qualities work together and set each girl apart, which we do, but not everyone else

Personally, I think people (or better say the media) call them "The Russian girls" because they are too many, not because everyone sees them as "one big chunk of Russian girls", as per Wagner suggestion.
This is a PR job, and Ashley is doing pretty well so far. I get that. But it couldn't be more far from the reality to say that Lena, Yulia, Liza or Adelina, for example, are the same thing. Not even close.

 

[Sjs5572]

Exactly.
Trankov didn't even had a place to sleep, so he was basically sleeping in a military compound, illegally I think.
Plushenko was a child when he left his home, all alone in Saint Petersburg. There is a docu on youtube and his mom speaks about that period and how difficult it was with tears in her eyes. He also got the worse time, during the 90, for Russia.
Adelina has a sister who's sick, and I don't think they are a rich family.
Yes the federation do support them once they become somebody, or show results, but as you said they all struggle before that.

I travelled with a judge going to Bordeaux. Just by chance he was sitting next to me.
We talked about skaters and in particular this point. He told me; "You have no idea the sacrifices that many skaters have to make.
I feel for them and I admire them for this."

Personally, that's one of the reasons why I don't like that much bashing skaters, no matter how much I may dislike their skating.
I don't care that much when it happens to the football players , because they are all millionaires.
Even the worst of them compared to a figure skater is a millionaire, for a sport which is not as half as difficult as the FS.


@Sjs5572: Yes, it's true about the difference in the systems and the support they get once they have results.
However, I do not see this as a valid argument to say that "hey, they've had an easy life" or "Russian girls didn't have to work". That's my point.

I agree that no elite skater has it easy. Russian girls work as hard as anyone.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I am sure that Russian skaters work harder than anyone, but the ones that make it can concentrate on skating. .

I think it's better to say they work as hard as anyone.

This is the point being lost I think. I also don't think life is so easy once you make it on Russia. The gauntlet that they go thru to reach the top doesn't stop swinging. There is always a shoulder to look over in order to maintain your status and in turn the funding. Just look up any Polina that skated internationally from Russia for proof. Hell..Elizavita almost become obsolete and what a shame that would have been.

 

[Icey]

For me, all the Russian ladies in the GPF have their own uniqueness and are far from "the same thing". To the poster who said Ashley Will never be a Carolina Kostner, I , for one, wouldn't and don't want her to be.

 

[Sjs5572]

I think it's better to say they work as hard as anyone.

This is the point being lost I think. I also don't think life is so easy once you make it on Russia. The gauntlet that they go thru to reach the top doesn't stop swinging. There is always a shoulder to look over in order to maintain your status and in turn the funding. Just look up any Polina that skated internationally from Russia for proof. Hell..Elizavita almost become obsolete and what a shame that would have been.

This is true; I wasn't thinking in those terms. Russia is indeed the hardest place to stay at the top, so the pressure must be omnipresent. Just look at the stress poor Yulia has been under. Nowhere is it more true than in Russia that "If I can make it here, I'll make it anywhere."

 

[MK's Winter]

for me, all the russian ladies in the gpf have their own uniqueness and are far from "the same thing". To the poster who said ashley will never be a carolina kostner, i , for one, wouldn't and don't want her to be.

ita.

 

[sses1]

I don't necessarily agree with her comments. There's major pressure in Russia to be not just good, but amazing. No one takes figure skating more serious than Russia. That's why they have such depth, in all disciplines. These girls have to work for their spot on the national team, its insanely competitive. So no matter what perks you may be receiving, you still have to work for it and you certainly aren't given a free ride. Ashley has endorsements of her own and you can even say her ticket to Sochi was "bought" so its kind of like the cat calling the kettle black. Of course if you're top tier athlete in any sport you will receive bonuses. IMO if these girls can land amazing jumps at such a young age then i don't care much about the artistic side, that will come with age. Plus Russians are competitive and very passionate, they're style is different, we don't need to be seeing the same thing over and over again and i like that.

Also it sounds like shes trying to sugar coat her criticism. I know your whole angle is maturity but talk like this is very polarizing. I just think she's having a hard time coming to terms with the fact that shes losing to young Russians when she's been in the game longer than them.

 

[Krunchii]

Personally, I think people (or better say the media) call them "The Russian girls" because they are too many, not because everyone sees them as "one big chunk of Russian girls", as per Wagner suggestion.
This is a PR job, and Ashley is doing pretty well so far. I get that. But it couldn't be more far from the reality to say that Lena, Yulia, Liza or Adelina, for example, are the same thing. Not even close.

I agree about the casual viewer. To elaborate on the ladies' differences would be too lengthy and too OT. I am surprised though that someone as deep into this sport as Ashley can make such a superficial statement about her competitors.

Just PR being lazy and grouping all the girls together, I think Ashley is referring to the general audience when she's talking about those girls being grouped together, her quote was everyone kind of sees them as one big chunk, not so much herself. I'm sure she'll well aware of who she needs to watch out for. Hell I'd say based on their hair alone you should be able to tell them apart easily but then again I follow this sport closely so I'm biased


Anyway, I think the advantage Russia has in their training system is that figure skating is more centralized, like in Moscow while in the US it's more spread apart, people train here and there, either way, figure skating is a hard life, prize money isn't even that much, just shows that all these skaters are here because they really love it

 

[slider11]

Ashley needs to let her skating speak for her. It would be fine if she just spoke about her goals and ambitions. But when she starts analyzing the Russian system, she lacks the knowledge and maturity to do it in a thoughtful and appropriate way. Ashley thinks highly of herself. Good. So show it on the ice.

 

[minze]

Ashley needs to let her skating speak for her. It would be fine if she just spoke about her goals and ambitions. But when she starts analyzing the Russian system, she lacks the knowledge and maturity to do it in a thoughtful and appropriate way. Ashley thinks highly of herself. Good. So show it on the ice.

I agree with you

 

[Alba]

her quote was everyone kind of sees them as one big chunk, not so much herself. I'm sure she'll well aware of who she needs to watch out for.

I'm sure she knows that also.
However, I'm not sure that the casual viewers see them as such either, but maybe I'm wrong here. I can't claim to know what viewers think or see.

Anyway, it was interesting to see TEB with my best friend. It was the first time for him watching a full competition in FS. He knows I love Yulia and he have seen all the russian girls, but he loved Elena and Haruka (I loved her too) most. He thought Elena has a top model attitude, especially when walking.

Anyway, I think the advantage Russia has in their training system is that figure skating is more centralized, like in Moscow while in the US it's more spread apart, people train here and there, either way, figure skating is a hard life, prize money isn't even that much, just shows that all these skaters are here because they really love it

Speaking about system, I'm not sure having a centralized system is a good thing. Yes, it's great that they support skaters, but having only few cities, mainly Moscow now it's not ideal.
Skaters have to move there and struggle a lot if they want to become somebody.
It's good to have more choices so the kids, and their parents, don't have to be separated from their families in such a young age.

It's a pity that Plushenko opened his school in Moscow, and not in Volgograd (he used to say he will open a school there), or at least in Saint Petersburg since they are in difficulty now and he trained there.

 

[Blades of Passion]

She needs to hit the podium at the GPF, otherwise they will ignore her at Nationals for Gold.

 

[Amei]

Ashley needs to let her skating speak for her. It would be fine if she just spoke about her goals and ambitions. But when she starts analyzing the Russian system, she lacks the knowledge and maturity to do it in a thoughtful and appropriate way. Ashley thinks highly of herself. Good. So show it on the ice.

Completely agree.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

She needs to hit the podium at the GPF, otherwise they will ignore her at Nationals for Gold.

That sentence has a double meaning