What has Suspect Judging done to YOU??

[Joesitz (RIP)]

It's never been about the skaters. It's been about the cheating of two Federations. One was caught; the other got away with it. That's what is was about. Yes the matter is still unsettled but does that mean you don't know who the other Federation was?

Two extremely effective Pairs skated THAT NIGHT. Either one could have won. Everyone has an opinion. No one wants to believe the result was fixed.

Joe

 

[Kwanford Wife]

good for her

Would you be kind enough to point me to this statement by Irina?

Quite to the contrary, she just answered questions by correspondents at Europeans press conference and she said that her plans for '06 are the same as they were this time last year - to skate and to compete. She said that as an athelete she personally thrives on the competition and that sitting out last year was the hardest thing she's ever done. She indicates that as long as she is physically able you can bet that she'll be out there willing to compete.

When questioned specifically about the Turino '06 games she promised to pour her soul into her programs for this special year. Word is that she's already chosen the music and is in talks with choreographer.

Like I said/typed before, the last the I heard, before I went to Target, Irina was planning on retiring after Worlds. I'm not the type to go and dig up a post from another site just to be right. That's what I read & heard throughout the GP and around the Dec. Cheesefest. I didn't see the Euro press conference. If my information was outdated, fine, but please don't get testy because its not necessary. Leave the bickering to the other sites. I'm glad she's going to Turin. Yay Irina.

Is that better?

Kwanford Wife

 

[euterpe]

I've always believed that Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze were the real winners at SLC and S&P were the ones who showed poor sportsmanship when the results were initially announced. Their shocked and angry reaction made the Russians feel very uncomfortable, and that was way before Mme. LeGougne owned up to being "influenced".

 

[Ptichka]

What most figure skating fans think is that Berezhnya and Sikarudlize were the class of the field, and it took a perfect skate by Sale and Pelletiere, plus the vocal suppport of a home-town crowd, to make it close.

This is what makes Olympics unique. When we're discussing D&V vs. C&S for bronze in 2002 Nagano, it's mainly the fans, who know at least the basics about FS, who care. Olympics, OTOH, are watched by everyone. You have people who only watch it once every 4 years, who probably think it isn't such a hard sport in the first place, see the TV stations run Anton's mistake over, and over, and over, and over again. Along with a highlight or two from S&P's program. You get the picture.

 

[Kwanford Wife]

Ooops!

But you can see why there was some confusion on this point. In your first post you did not say (as you did in your second) that you expected Michelle to give a great performance in Torino and that she would face little competition. What you said was, Michelle will be given the gold medal on a silver platter because the fix is in.

And how do we know the fix is in? Because she let it slip that she was offered a deal that she couldn’t refuse in 2003 (actually 2002).

So you can understand why it seemed like you were accusing Michelle of being complicit in something shady.

Mathman

Yeah, you got me. I screwed up & I apologize for not being clear. For the record: "the fix is in" comment is reflective of the ISU NOT any particular skater, espcially Michelle Kwan who has given so much to this sport....

Ok, that's about as PC as I can get on a Wednesday.

But here's a question: how funny is all the drama that surrounds figure skating forums? We, the fans are a testy, nasty bunch!! Probably from staying up so late to catch skating on ESPN2 in the middle of the night!

Kwanford Wife

"idealism is what precedes experience, cynicism is what comes after" david t. wolf

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I've always believed that Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze were the real winners at SLC and S&P were the ones who showed poor sportsmanship when the results were initially announced. Their shocked and angry reaction made the Russians feel very uncomfortable, and that was way before Mme. LeGougne owned up to being "influenced".

Do you feel the same way about Irina being shocked and angry when she loses? Is that showing poor sportsmanship or does she have the right to complain?

Again it's not about sportsmanship. It's about CHEATING

Joe

 

[soogar]

I've always believed that Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze were the real winners at SLC and S&P were the ones who showed poor sportsmanship when the results were initially announced. Their shocked and angry reaction made the Russians feel very uncomfortable, and that was way before Mme. LeGougne owned up to being "influenced".

ITA with you. In fact, I get really violent feelings when I think about Jaime's disgusting tear stained face when they found out they won the silver medal in the Kiss and Cry. Instead of doing the decent thing by going backstage and showing their disappointment, Jaime just stood in the K&C whith David embracing her openly displaying her reaction. It was as if she was doing her part to feed the media storm and the crowd's dissatisfaction. Jaime so disgusted me that to this day I have not bought Crest Whitestrips b/c P&G hired those two to endorse their product. I'd like to try the product b/c I hear it's so great, but I can't get that ugly imagery of SLC out of my head. That pairs event was extremely close between B&S's difficult transitions and S&P's crossovers into clean tricks.

Watching B&S backstage, they were extremely uncomfortable. S&P were absolutely disgusting in their poor sportsmanship. At least MK who lost a decision in Nagano put on a nice face and accepted her medal. S&P should have been grateful that they won a medal of any color.

For me, the awarding of 2 gold medals really ruined figure skating (though I love it and still watch it). For years there have been fixes in this sport and it was common knowledge... people just dealt with it and somehow the RIGHT person was always crowned champion. Now all of a sudden everyone (the media and all) feel that they are qualified to be a judge. I'm sorry , but most folks in the media don't even know how to determine the quality of the elements or even bother trying. Who are they to write articles on bad judging and wuz robbing when they don't even take the time to learn the sport?

As for Scott, I'm probably evil but I don't care but perhaps his health problems are the result of karma. His commentary combined with Sandra's canadian partisonship (which is always there) RUINED B&S's opportunity to enjoy their gold medal. It's so ironic as Scott won his OGM with a very flawed free program and he had the nerve to pick on B&S's one small error and examine their scartchy (albeit one foot landings) on their throws. The media examined B&S's program under a microscope. They didn't even do that with Baiul's win and Scott was actually happy that Baiul won and justified her win. Her artistry was so good that her free skate with errors bet a free skate from NK. Why did he single out B&S when he could have done the same with Baiul?

 

[Ptichka]

As for Scott, I'm probably evil but I don't care but perhaps his health problems are the result of karma.

I do not believe this is appropriate. Scott did not murder or rape anyone. He was just telling the public his opinion.

 

[Kwanford Wife]

Whoa

ITA with you. In fact, I get really violent feelings when I think about Jaime's disgusting tear stained face when they found out they won the silver medal in the Kiss and Cry. Instead of doing the decent thing by going backstage and showing their disappointment, Jaime just stood in the K&C whith David embracing her openly displaying her reaction. It was as if she was doing her part to feed the media storm and the crowd's dissatisfaction. Jaime so disgusted me that to this day I have not bought Crest Whitestrips b/c P&G hired those two to endorse their product. I'd like to try the product b/c I hear it's so great, but I can't get that ugly imagery of SLC out of my head. That pairs event was extremely close between B&S's difficult transitions and S&P's crossovers into clean tricks.

Watching B&S backstage, they were extremely uncomfortable. S&P were absolutely disgusting in their poor sportsmanship. At least MK who lost a decision in Nagano put on a nice face and accepted her medal. S&P should have been grateful that they won a medal of any color.

For me, the awarding of 2 gold medals really ruined figure skating (though I love it and still watch it). For years there have been fixes in this sport and it was common knowledge... people just dealt with it and somehow the RIGHT person was always crowned champion. Now all of a sudden everyone (the media and all) feel that they are qualified to be a judge. I'm sorry , but most folks in the media don't even know how to determine the quality of the elements or even bother trying. Who are they to write articles on bad judging and wuz robbing when they don't even take the time to learn the sport?

As for Scott, I'm probably evil but I don't care but perhaps his health problems are the result of karma. His commentary combined with Sandra's canadian partisonship (which is always there) RUINED B&S's opportunity to enjoy their gold medal. It's so ironic as Scott won his OGM with a very flawed free program and he had the nerve to pick on B&S's one small error and examine their scartchy (albeit one foot landings) on their throws. The media examined B&S's program under a microscope. They didn't even do that with Baiul's win and Scott was actually happy that Baiul won and justified her win. Her artistry was so good that her free skate with errors bet a free skate from NK. Why did he single out B&S when he could have done the same with Baiul?

And I thought that I was cynical and jaded!!! Soogar, you've won my vote... But its not nice to equate cancer & brain tumors with bad commentating in figure skating!

As for the SLC Pairs thing, one thing to keep in mind is that we've over analyzed that double gold medal to death... Its easy for me to understand the judging NOW but hindsight is 20/20... That night I admit to being upset about block judging and feeling the sympathy for S&P... But now, I get it.

I think we should give the commentators the benefit of the doubt. They're watching it just like we are... I'm sure some comments (like most of Peggy's!) are made on the fly and by gut instinct. If we want commentating that is unbiased and "fair" then we don't want commentating or live competitions. You can't have it both ways...

Kwanford Wife

 

[mzheng]

I've always believed that Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze were the real winners at SLC and S&P were the ones who showed poor sportsmanship when the results were initially announced. Their shocked and angry reaction made the Russians feel very uncomfortable, and that was way before Mme. LeGougne owned up to being "influenced".

Same here. In mine mind B/S is the sole pair OGM at 2002 game.

soogar. I agree every bit you said in that post. Congratulation to you have the gut to post this. First rate.

I almost smashed my TV set when I saw she was in K&C acted like they should've won. And the disgusting declaration from Scott "this scandal will be talked forever". It was right after S/P skated, before French Judge back to the hotel being bullied by NA Referee. How could Scott know in advance that there was a scandal? Now come to think about this it could be the conspiracy from NA medias and NA federations to do French judges in.

 

[curious]

Do you feel the same way about Irina being shocked and angry when she loses? Is that showing poor sportsmanship or does she have the right to complain?

Again it's not about sportsmanship. It's about CHEATING

Joe

yes,but as always the skaters B&S got the blame for something that happens everyday in the sport.

 

[ChiSk8Fan]

S&P should have been grateful that they won a medal of any color.

I also agree that the base mark for B & S in the 6.0 system should have been a 6.0, and the base mark for the "Love Story" program, in which the skaters didn't even touch one another for more than half the program should have been MUCH lower, as in a 5.7. Even with small errors, B & S had a program that was better.

In terms of the medals, look at the first medal ceremony---Jamie and David's grey costumes were a perfect match for the Silver Medals---perfect accessories for them.

IMHO they got what they deserved, SIlver Medals, and the rest was bad sportsmanship.

 

[Kwanford Wife]

Yay! This is too funny!

soogar. I agree every bit you said in that post. Congratulation to you have the gut to post this. First rate.

I almost smashed my TV set when I saw she was in K&C acted like they should've won. And the disgusting declaration from Scott "this scandal will be talked forever". It was right after S/P skated, before French Judge back to the hotel being bullied by NA Referee. How could Scott know in advance that there was a scandal? Now come to think about this it could be the conspiracy from NA medias and NA federations to do French judges in.

LMAO!!! I know I'm on the right board! The conspiracy theory is alive & well!!!

And while it did take guts for Soogar's post, ya gotta admit that using karma from SLC in relation to his health issues is not the most PC thing in the world.... But it is funny!!

As for the dual gold & Sale's bad sportmanship in the K&C... It actually benefitted both teams in the long run... What other two teams in the history of skating have gone on to such lucrative pro careers? Its all relative.

Kwanford Wife

 

[wvgal57]

the last the I heard

No problem and that is why I stay away from "hear say". It seems this "rumor" is making the round, I have my own theories as to why but I will simply continue to point out that it's not correct.

 

[Mathman]

I don't agree with this at all. Jamie and David did not do anything wrong. Anton and Eleana did not do anything wrong. Shen and Zhao -- despite all the speculation that the Chinese judge sold his vote for gold in exchange for the support of the Russian alliance for bronze for the Chinese team -- did not do anything wrong. And don't forget the gigantic international conspiracy to hold down Ina and Zimmerman.

The skaters came, they skated, they dealt with the situation the best they could. They are not the villains here.

Mathman

 

[Kwanford Wife]

No problem and that is why I stay away from "hear say". It seems this "rumor" is making the round, I have my own theories as to why but I will simply continue to point out that it's not correct.

you do that.... and I will continue to post my own thoughts... this is silly.

Kwanford Wife

 

[STL_Blues_fan]

Same here. In mine mind B/S is the sole pair OGM at 2002 game.

soogar. I agree every bit you said in that post. Congratulation to you have the gut to post this. First rate.

I almost smashed my TV set when I saw she was in K&C acted like they should've won. And the disgusting declaration from Scott "this scandal will be talked forever". It was right after S/P skated, before French Judge back to the hotel being bullied by NA Referee. How could Scott know in advance that there was a scandal? Now come to think about this it could be the conspiracy from NA medias and NA federations to do French judges in.

Well said, mzhang!

Scott was whining BEFORE the real scandal broke out about the potential cheating. French confession did not hit the news till at least a day later. I am sure that have this Olympics be held anywhere other than in NA, the 2nd set of medals would not been awarded. Media played a huge role in this "scandal".

Call me naive but I don't believe there was a fix. A&P did not need the Russian vote in exchange for French to win the OGM (they didn't get the vote anyways, the Russian put L&A first, IIRC). LaGougne "confessed" once in front of how many people (and wasn't Stapleford one of them)? And how do we know Ms. Sally isn't the one to make it up?LaGougne recanted right away, and she did say that in her heart B&S were the true winners that night. Everyone is entitled to believe what they want, but I will remain "naive" until I hear or see (on tape) the "confession", the tactics they used to get this emotional wreck to "confess" and see all the backstage dealings.

I too haven't bought the Crest White Strips precisely b/c of the Crest/S&P relationship.

There are competitors out there who know how to loose in dignity. They accept their loss. They either choose to move on or to stay and try to win again. They congratulate the winner, wheather they agree with the judges or not. That's called sportsmanship. Sale and Peltier ARE NOT those people. The way they behaved after getting (what I believe deep in my heart!) a just silver medal was repulsive and unfair to B&S who did not cheat.

I wonder how many people who do not think of Irina or even Svetlana Khorkina as good "sportswoman" (for complaining about unfair judging) think the same about S&P?

Yana

 

[Kwanford Wife]

I don't agree with this at all. Jamie and David did not do anything wrong. Anton and Eleana did not do anything wrong. Shen and Zhao -- despite all the speculation that the Chinese judge sold his vote for gold in exchange for the support of the Russian alliance for bronze for the Chinese team -- did not do anything wrong. And don't forget the gigantic international conspiracy to hold down Ina and Zimmerman.

The skaters came, they skated, they dealt with the situation the best they could. The are not the villains here.

Mathman

You are WRONG WRONG WRONG... its all a big conspiracy...a C-O-N-spiracy! Mathman, just go with it and try to find the humor... with the obvious exception re: the karma crack in relation to Scott H. Somethings are so out there, you must just find the humor... Life is short

KW

 

[Mathman]

You are WRONG WRONG WRONG... its all a big conspiracy...a C-O-N-spiracy! Mathman, just go with it and try to find the humor... with the obvious exception re: the karma crack in relation to Scott H. Somethings are so out there, you must just find the humor... Life is short

KW

OK, but what about my self-proclaimed role of knight in shining armor protecting all my boys and girls from the bad, bad trolls of the Internet?

 

[hockeyfan228]

Suspect judging does nothing to me. Cheating judges do nothing to me. But both do something very grave to the skaters, all of them, whether they win or lose.

If Marie LeGougne has any apology to make, it is to B&S. By her action -- which she confessed multiple times, by the way, before she recanted after having a little "talk" with Gailhauguet -- she ensured that B&S could not win according to the rules of the sport, regardless of how they skated. If anyone stole their victory from them, it was she, because she took the spot of someone who could have judged them without "pressure," and made their win legitimate. Controversial, perhaps, but legitimate.