Yes, gold is gold. But one Olympic gold doesn't trump Kwan's 5-time World Champ and 9-time US Champ achievement. Nor does it trump Yuna who has never finished off the podium during her ENTIRE career and was the first woman ever to achieve a grand slam (GOLD at Olympics, Worlds, Four Continents, GPF). Meanwhile, Adelina is still in the early years of her senior career and no one knows what may happen. So it would be too early to say that "Adelina is better than all Kwans together" unless she actually achieves something MORE than just one Olympic medal. As for your logic on tennis and Del Potro, one grand slam is actually not enough. While one grand slam is enough to be written in history - it won't be enough to be recognized as one of the greats like Federer, Nadal, McEnroe, Connors. Del Potro is good, but he's not on the same level of "good" as them. Likewise Adelina is good, but give the current history of her achievements, she's not there yet.
What if Yu-Na had won?
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Yes, gold is gold. But one Olympic gold doesn't trump Kwan's 5-time World Champ and 9-time US Champ achievement. Nor does it trump Yuna who has never finished off the podium during her ENTIRE career and was the first woman ever to achieve a grand slam (GOLD at Olympics, Worlds, Four Continents, GPF). Meanwhile, Adelina is still in the early years of her senior career and no one knows what may happen. So it would be too early to say that "Adelina is better than all Kwans together" unless she actually achieves something MORE than just one Olympic medal. As for your logic on tennis and Del Potro, one grand slam is actually not enough. While one grand slam is enough to be written in history - it won't be enough to be recognized as one of the greats like Federer, Nadal, McEnroe, Connors. Del Potro is good, but he's not on the same level of "good" as them. Likewise Adelina is good, but give the current history of her achievements, she's not there yet.
Who will remember you in 20 years!
Adelina won gold and she will be in the history forever! And what will be left of you, other than your frustrated and maniacal posts stored on the bottom of some digital archives! lol
Well, maybe staring at skaters’ feet and making a big issue of the edge that has been changed before a jump makes person a maniac but I dare to disagree. I wouldn’t be able to tell this apart during real-time action, not mention doing anything close to it on ice
The fact that there are people capable to do this is rather amazing for me. It makes figure skating look like a complicated skill and art rather than a no-sport and drag show on ice like the general public often consider it to be.I’d say discussions here provide lots of interesting information and deeper insight into skating as such; except, some chill-out before answering each other’s posts would make them even better
There’s not just that. She changed the preconception that Japanese skaters are “merely technical” and went down in history as a great performer, a one whose skating has to be picked out of archives and watched over and over again. At least’s that’s what I do
There’s not just that. She changed the preconception that Japanese skaters are “barely technical” and went down in history as a great performer, a one whose skating has to be picked out of archives and watched over and over again. At least’s that’s what I do
Not only that, but Arakawa demonstrated a huge repertoire of different triple-triple combinations, which she maintained (showing technical strength) well into her twenties. And there was her unparalleled, gorgeous Ina Bauer.
I'm with you about watching her performances again and again. What a treasure she is!
Absolutely. Recently, I started watching the Kiss & Cry SBS TV show she hosted back in 2011 and her Another Challenge SBS documentary from 2013. I think I finally understand why she came back, how she regained her motivation, and why she won regardless of the actual score results. She won because she accomplished everything she set out to do in this Olympics. I think her experience from the Kiss & Cry show and contestants really changed and inspired her on how she approached the 2014 Olympics.
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Even if Yuna had wrested the win, they would still have found the excuses to keep her gold medal indefinitely in the Russian airport international transit zone.
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Yes, of course, I agree. She hasn't proved the gold yet. It is still to be done.
The truth is that the judges do not, and should not, give gold medals for past accomplishments. To win gold all that is required is to have the right performance at the right time. You can come out of nowhere, but if you do that then you should be awarded the gold medal. Period. And Adelina did exactly that!
It would be nice if the Skating God could make it so that winning gold is a conclusion of accomplishment. But that also applies to all sports. But another side of sport's beauty is that it's never predictable. That's why I am so obsessed with it.
Let's look at the past. Was it always happening that the gold was a conclusion of accomplishment?
Yamaguchi was already accomplished and she also proved the gold by winning the Worlds after Olympics. So yes, it was.
Baiul? She won Worlds the prior year and was coming to the Olympics as one of main favorites. So in this sense she deserved it. And she did have the best performance that night. So yes, it was.
Tara? She was consistently beating Kwan before the Olympics, but still for many she was an underdog, and it was Kwan who should have won. But as I remember, I already knew before the Olympics Tara would win it. I knew it and I was right. To me it was the right conclusion. Unfortunately she never proved it. Her retirement was the oddest thing ever. I still don't get it.
Anyway, it wasn't gold for accomplishment, even though I was satisfied with the outcome.
Sarah? Yes, came out of nowhere and disappeared back to nowhere. But again - right performance at the right time. And it's all that counts. But it wasn't gold for accomplishment.
Arakawa? I don't know. I am not objective, I never liked this "gracious" "shmartsy" stuff, I am solely after athletics, so ... whatever. And to me it was Sasha who screwed, because it was supposed to be Sasha's Olympics. So for me it was another popping out of nowhere stuff.
Yuna in 2010 - finally a fully deserved win by an accomplished skater.
Adelina - as we speak, right now, she is just Sarah. As her fan I acknowledge that. She did come out of nowhere. But she is not retiring, she had the best performance that particular night, actually two nights, but she still has to prove it. If there are no injuries, or if she doesn't fall apart for some reason, she has the right potential to do it.
And speaking of Yuna's fans - why is it good for Yuna and for you that Adelina falls apart now? Isn't it better for Yuna to lose to a great skater? I would prefer to lose tennis to Federer than to somebody with #500 ranking...
To be honest, I wouldn't mind all Russian podium this Worlds. I hope the Skating God listens...
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what would happen if Yuna had won?...We would have world peace and all would be happy and joyful. Not. I am sure someone would have arguments how she won on reputation or didn't deserve to win. And really another OGM probably in her case wouldn't change a lot her status with the media or marketablility especially since her market is Korea mainly - they love her if she came home and didn't win a medal because ie she was sick she would have more kimchi and Hello Kitty's than Justin Bieber has scandals.
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This angle is the best angle for appreciating how Kim's performance incorporates elements of Epic poetry.
1. Epic works start in medias res. The Aeneid begins with Aeneas fleeing the burning city of Troy; it does not begin by telling the story of Aeneas' birth and childhood. In similar fashion, Kim's starting pose shows her ready to burst into movement. Her cut starts in the middle of the piece Adios Nonino, not at the beginning. She does not take a slow, plodding start but instead is already streaking down the rink.
2. The setting is grand in scope and the work is larger than life. The setting of Kim's free skate is nothing less than the grand stage of the Sochi Olympics, and her work is truly larger than life. She speeds across the ice, and one need only see the scale of Adelina Sotnikova's performance to recognise the grand scale of Adios Nonino.
3. Epic works tend to have epic catalogues, where multitudes of warriors, armies, and the like are listed to show the grandiosity of the events. Kim's footwork sequence is an Epic Catalogue in the truest sense of the word, showing turns and steps of all kinds being reeled off for the viewer to recognise the splendour, the grand setting, the gravity of the work.
4. The style is sustained, and in the truest, most epic works (those of Homer), it is eminently noble, eminently rapid, and eminently direct. Kim's Adios Nonino is noble in that she does not involve herself in such sordid matters as playing to the audience for cheers, whistles, or clapping to the beat. She blows no kisses and does not wave her hands, but lets her free skate speak for itself. Kim's Adios Nonino is rapid in that after seven crossovers, she can move from one end of the rink to the other in a mere ten seconds. Kim's Adios Nonino is direct in that her movements are clear and crisp. Her steps and transitions are easily seen by the audience. These epic, Homeric traits are consistently maintained throughout the course of Kim's free skate. It stands in stark contrast to Adelina's free skate, which is eminently vulgar, eminently slow, and eminently abstruse and laboured. The free skate of Carolina Kostner maintains rapidity and directness but fails to fully maintain nobility. The free skate of Julia Lipnitskaya displays nobility and directness, but not rapidity.
5. Epic works often contain deeds of great valour or courage. What deed could show more valour than skating last after one knows the gold medal has been pre-ordered and, with Sotnikova's skate, the deal has been closed?
6. Finally, at the end of the epic, life moves on. Adios Nonino is often thought of as a tribute to the composer's dead father. After Kim finishes skating, her life moves on. She does not play dead or mime herself being stabbed or gutted. She simply turns, folds her arms, and finishes her tale. What follows is for the audience to decide...
WOW. That is the BEST interpretation of her program I've ever read! Perhaps it was too emotionally remote to appreciate, or just a bit too esoteric?
I'm not sure if I would call Adelina's piece vulgar, but it does look laboured for sure in comparison and not quite as assured. Perhaps it lacks something in maturity and sophistication in comparison to Kim's?
Great post!! :agree: Now, how did you interpret Mao's or Caro's programs? I love how dark Mao's piece was, it was the one piece of Russian-inspired choreography that finally fit her like a glove.
I should probably let this go, but...
Here's Shizuka shmartsy-ing her way through her Olympics practice: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SauJKulmYlU
here's Shizuka winning 2004 Wolrds by artfully executing 2 triple-triple combinations: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xzGdVragbo
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Carolina Kostner skated to Bolero. Ravel conceived the piece as an experiment, the subject of the experiment being crescendo. He envisioned it being danced in the open with a factory set in the background, to reflect the mechanical nature of the work. Carolina Kostner showed her capacity for crescendo, and certain movements showed the work's mechanical quality. Witness the crescendo: her slow, sweeping motions, and her long glide into her opening triple Lutz. The mechanical nature is further seen in her two consecutive spins. At the climax of the piece, she does her trademark footwork. However, this program was a diminished, watered-down version of what it could have been. The finale of the program originally had her launching into nowhere on a triple Salchow, but in Sochi she replaced this pièce de résistance with a mundane combination spin. She sacrificed artistic integrity in the name of landing seven triples, and this is why I said her program failed to maintain nobility.
Because she kept falling / stumbling / wobbling on the landing when it was at the end of the program. The one false note was her finishing pose in Sochi, which I thought was very Vegas-inspired, like the Criss Angel magic show.
I thought she would keep her original finishing pose when she would take a little hop and wrap her arms around herself.
By the way, have you seen Maya Plisetskaya's monumental 1975 piece on it? I'm sure elements were taken from or inspired by it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsSALaDJuN4
Aaaaand ... let's get back to the original topic. Thanks for your thoughts. Perhaps you can post your thoughts in the fan fest, too?
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I thought it was more along the line of a soul-searing tragedy of Sophocletian dimensions
but it works very well as an epic too indeed. Epic post!
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Arakawa was the 2004 World Champion. Her Olympic Gold in 2006 was no accident--she could just afford to play it safe with her technical content (which had, at one point, consisted of two 3-3s in one program) because Irina and Sasha faltered.
Accidental gold, my ***.
Adelina's Olympic gold wasn't even an accident. It was a shiny gift wrapped with fake ponytails and invisible ropes.
The skaters on the podium were right, but not the order.
The American media tried to make the public believe that it was Sasha's Olympics because she won the National title and Michelle was gone.
She was never a World champion, but Irina and Shizuka were.
And her track record in the free skates were questionable.
Last time we all checked she is one the ten richest female athletes in the world according to Forbes. Today she posted a bunch of pictures from a coffee commercial shoot she just did. Seems it didn't hurt her, and the giant Korean department store Lotte is doing a giant public event for her on Tuesday as an appreciation day in Seoul, at their flagship store (if I read it correctly). I wonder if that will be a national holiday in Korea?
Love the line about Bieber's scandals, BTW.
Sorry I can't resist b/c I'm a tennis fan as well.
Del Potro won the title by beating Nadal and Federer, two greatest players in the history of tennis, back to back without the umpire's help.. BIG difference.
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