Who is the better coach, Orser or Carroll?

[Warwick360]

I'm going to be biased here and just go for Orser.

The man just always seems to have his heart on his sleeve when supporting his charges. The way he seems to get so mentally and emotionally involve is just an amazing sight to see. I wish things hadn't gone bad between Orser and Yuna because they made such a great dream team.

 

[LyraAngelica]

I think they are completely two different coaching styles and strengths. I think Orser has been able to adapt much better than Carroll to the new judging system. He also produces a packaged athlete just like Frank does. Except Orser's athletes take more risks in their programs versus Frank's athletes. Frank is more old school with everything planned from the start of the music to the last pose. I think that works for some but not all. His misses are more than his hits, IMO.

I think if they could combine their schools of coaching, they'd produce a skating dynasty.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Never was a fan of Plushenko. I thought he was overrated. He posed a lot, front loaded his programs and if you think skating with attitude is artistic, then I guess he was an artist. I didn't think he had much on Tim artistic wise. Yagudin, on the other hand, was light years in front of the both of them artistically. My vote, Yagudin-gold, Goebel-silver, and I don't even think Plushenko deserved bronze.

I kind of feel the same way, but I do appreciate spunk and I always though Evgeny was very exciting to watch. Tim, not so much.

 

[Globetrotter]

Never was a fan of Plushenko. I thought he was overrated. He posed a lot, front loaded his programs and if you think skating with attitude is artistic, then I guess he was an artist. I didn't think he had much on Tim artistic wise. Yagudin, on the other hand, was light years in front of the both of them artistically. My vote, Yagudin-gold, Goebel-silver, and I don't even think Plushenko deserved bronze.

While Plushy was not the artiste in the typical sense, you can't deny that this guy is a performer. This is somewhat like Elena Radionova, you will not call her artistic but she certainly loves to perform in front of audiences. The important thing is both Radio and Plushy makes for a feel good performance and they are always exciting, although not always pretty to watch. Maybe it is a Russian thing, I am not sure. Skaters like Slutskaya, Plushy and Radionova are not conventionally artistic but can always be depended upon to generate excitement and their big personalities and showmanship can be relied upon to win people over although they will never be Caro Kostner or Mao Asada or a Yagudin. They just learn how to score "artistic" points in a different way I guess.

 

[peg]

Never was a fan of Plushenko. I thought he was overrated. He posed a lot, front loaded his programs and if you think skating with attitude is artistic, then I guess he was an artist. I didn't think he had much on Tim artistic wise. Yagudin, on the other hand, was light years in front of the both of them artistically. My vote, Yagudin-gold, Goebel-silver, and I don't even think Plushenko deserved bronze.

Ditto.

 

[anyanka]

Overall answer to the question: if you measure it by how many Olympic champions each man has trained, then Orser wins by having Yuna and Yuzu win in back-to-back games. If you want to measure by longevity, it would be Carroll because he's been in the coaching game far longer than Orser. The question is, at this point in time, entirely academic.

 

[silverfoxes]

Never was a fan of Plushenko. I thought he was overrated. He posed a lot, front loaded his programs and if you think skating with attitude is artistic, then I guess he was an artist. I didn't think he had much on Tim artistic wise. Yagudin, on the other hand, was light years in front of the both of them artistically. My vote, Yagudin-gold, Goebel-silver, and I don't even think Plushenko deserved bronze.

I'm sure Plushy will cry into his piles of medals when he reads your comment. And what does this have to do with Orser vs. Carroll any way? Is there some unwritten rule that every single thread on here has to deteriorate into rehashing the same old nonsense about things that happened years & years ago? I would hate to be that bitter and resentful.

 

[Rissa]

I'm sure Plushy will cry into his piles of medals when he reads your comment. And what does this have to do with Orser vs. Carroll any way? Is there some unwritten rule that every single thread on here has to deteriorate into rehashing the same old nonsense about things that happened years & years ago? I would hate to be that bitter and resentful.

No need to be so defensive, some people are just not into Plushy's skating. And frankly, what do medals have to artistry.

This discussion veers away from and back to the Carrol/Orser question all the time, and i find it more interesting than if it were just about arguing which of the two is better. Just because there are parts of the discussion that express dislike of one's favorite is no reason to try to shut it down. Plush has been brought up because Mishin has been brought up, and so it went. It's how discussions develop, and imo that's a good thing.

 

[salchowx4]

Brian, but Frank is pretty darn good too.

 

[Blades of Passion]

I know Tech merit is more than just jumps (and Goebel's spins were blah)

Goebel's spins were pretty good! Plushenko had a better camel and the beillmann, but Goebel did actual sit spins and his scratch spin was better. His footwork sequences were the weaker aspect, but even then his jump content compensates. He deserved that Silver medal. Plushenko had an empty program that lost steam in the final segment and he really shouldn't have been so high up after that huge SP mistake to begin with.

 

[Sandpiper]

I guess Goebel was an artist if you think "boring" is a type of artistry... Even if he'd won the technical mark, he has no case for anything above bronze due to the second mark. He couldn't even beat Takeshi Honda on (quite partisan) home ice when both went clean in the SP. Of course, Honda took himself out in the free as usual...

 

[BlackPack]

I guess Goebel was an artist if you think "boring" is a type of artistry... Even if he'd won the technical mark, he has no case for anything above bronze due to the second mark. He couldn't even beat Takeshi Honda on (quite partisan) home ice when both went clean in the SP. Of course, Honda took himself out in the free as usual...

Honda was inconsistent, but when he was on, he was spectacular. Like so many Japanese skaters, he skated with his heart on his sleeve. An emotional and sensitive skater.

 

[mrrice]

I was about to make this joke! Darn it, now I shall have to hunt you down for stealing my chance of being witty! I don't get nearly enough of those, y'know?

Make that 3!!! Does Morozov Coach or just choreograph. If yes, I'd throw him in there as well.

 

[mrrice]

"I guess Goebel was an artist if you think "boring" is a type of artistry..."

I just spit my orange juice all over my screen. I was thinking it but, I wasn't gonna say it.

 

[peg]

Does Morozov Coach or just choreograph. If yes, I'd throw him in there as well.

 

[mrrice]

Doesn't he coach Leonova? I love the way she performs. Not a boring bone in her body.

 

[peg]

Doesn't he coach Leonova? I love the way she performs. Not a boring bone in her body.

Not anymore.

 

[mrrice]

Not anymore.

Really, I had no idea. Sorry

 

[peg]

Really, I had no idea. Sorry

And oddly enough, this is the first season I've really loved her