Why is music recycled so often in figure skating? | Page 5 | Golden Skate

Why is music recycled so often in figure skating?

icewhite

icewhite

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synesthesia said:
Japanese skaters choosing music of Japanese origin / by Japanese composers / songwriters is not that rare. A (non-comprehensive) list in chronological order – curiously there have been more male than female Japanese skaters to do so:

























I didn’t include any of the “Merry Christmas, Mr. Lawrence” (by Ryuichi Sakamoto) programs. There are way too many! :eek:



*Chinese movie
Click to expand...

The female skaters are even more traditional.

But in general, that's not a huge list when you consider how many of the top skaters are Asian these days, and most of these are soundtracks, some of movies that are very well known in "the west". It's not exactly music you heard at home and school and that people from other countries may not know about.
 
TallyT

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icewhite said:
But in general, that's not a huge list when you consider how many of the top skaters are Asian these days, and most of these are soundtracks, some of movies that are very well known in "the west". It's not exactly music you heard at home and school and that people from other countries may not know about.
Click to expand...
The numbers do seem to (slowly) be increasing, which is good.
 
rabidline

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Oh... I didn't realize Eye was by a Japanese musician. That means Daisuke was the first Japanese man to win a figure skating Olympic medal and a World title with a program with Japanese music by a Japanese musician that is also choreographed by a Japanese choreographer. Didn't Daisuke get into trouble for his 2014 Olympic SP too? That was apparently composed by a Japanese composer but turned out wasn't.

Some more that I remember:

"Baby, God Bless You" is composed by Shinya Kiyozuka and is a soundtrack to Japanese TV series "Dr. Stork" which was skated by Rika Kihira and now skated by Kaori Sakamoto and Ami Nakai... do I see a burgeoning warhorse?

Tomoe Kawabata skated to "In the Mood for Love" by Shigeru Umabayashi for her FS at the JGP during the 2019-2020 season, paired with "Sikuriadas."

Mana Kawabe skated to Yoshiki's MIRACLE during the 2020-2021 and 2021-2022 season and brought it to the 2022 Olympics.

I know "Byakuyako" by Shin Kono has been used as EX programs by Tatsuki Machida and Wakaba Higuchi, and pretty sure some skaters are using it to compete, just maybe not internationally.

It's definitely interesting to see the range of Japanese music used by the Japanese skaters to compete. Some of the skaters don't wear costumes that can immediately be identified as inspired by traditional Japanese costuming which probably made their program less obviously "Japanese" to observers.

On the other hand, there seems to be an opposite case like Hana Yoshida this season whose program is "Japanese" in theme as she represents the Japanese crane in the program, but her music is by Armand Amar.

Also I know Yuna has skated to Arirang / Homage to Korea and Haein Lee skated it for the 2021-2022 season, but is there any other notable Korean music skated by Korean skaters? My first thought was a Japanese skater (Rika Hongo) who skated to the soundtrack of KDrama "Crash Landing on You" by Nam Hye-seung and Park Sang-hee for her SP in her last competitive season (local only).
 
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D

denise3lz

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el henry said:
I have a serious question:

Whenever I see "why don't skaters choose music from their own countries, in their own languages", it appears to be referenced by (East) Asian music.

Donovan Carrillo has selected music in Spanish every single year he has skated. Many of the years, the songs are by Mexican artists that I at least don't know.

Is it because Donovan is not as well known? He doesn't skate enough internationally? Is Spanish somehow less "cool" or do we feel too familiar with it? Are skating fans conflating tango with every single genre of music from Spanish speaking countries? Do they think that if they know "Cielito Lindo," they know Mexican music?

:scratch2:
Click to expand...
He has most viewed JGP videos.
I think his own music choice characterized him and was part of reason of popularity.
 
el henry

el henry

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denise3lz said:
He has most viewed JGP videos.
I think his own music choice characterized him and was part of reason of popularity.
Click to expand...

Yes, to be unfortunately blunt about it, the death of Juan Gabriel really increased the views on that skate (which is one reason I am skeptical of YouTube views as proof of a skater's popularity). I suspect, although I have no way of proving it, that the vast majority of the views were from Latin America.

Did I know or had I ever heard of Juan Gabriel before Donovan? No. It is a good thing when skaters can expand our horizons :)
 
surimi

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synesthesia said:
Japanese skaters choosing music of Japanese origin / by Japanese composers / songwriters is not that rare. A (non-comprehensive) list in chronological order – curiously there have been more male than female Japanese skaters to do so:

























I didn’t include any of the “Merry Christmas, Mr. Lawrence” (by Ryuichi Sakamoto) programs. There are way too many! :eek:



*Chinese movie
Click to expand...

This is a great list! Let me add Yuhana Yokoi's 'Ten Dark Women', Amine Kataise's 'Yoshitsune' and that Japanese folk(?) song gala from long ago that Kawaguti/Smirnov skated to (its name eludes me). I remember all of these programs, and would love to see more coming.

el henry said:
Whenever I see "why don't skaters choose music from their own countries, in their own languages", it appears to be referenced by (East) Asian music.

Donovan Carrillo has selected music in Spanish every single year he has skated. Many of the years, the songs are by Mexican artists that I at least don't know.

Is it because Donovan is not as well known? He doesn't skate enough internationally? Is Spanish somehow less "cool" or do we feel too familiar with it? Are skating fans conflating tango with every single genre of music from Spanish speaking countries? Do they think that if they know "Cielito Lindo," they know Mexican music?

:scratch2:
Click to expand...

Interesting, I didn't know about Donovan using Mexican music. Good for him! I haven't had all that many opportunities to watch him in the last few years (boo, copyrights and geoblocks), but with Autumn Classic footages hopefully up on Dailymotion, my hopes are up.

About your question that I bolded, I think the latter's the case. At least IMO. There's not so little Spanish out there, even without tangos. All those Malaguenas, vocal Aranjuez, and Yo Soy Marias (okay, that one's a tango), flamencos like Poeta, every couple of years we hear a number of paso dobles in ID, there were some Despacitos a few years ago... Plus more rarely used songs like Besame Mucho (hoping that one actually *is* Spanish as I don't speak the language) that Camden has skated to recently, IIRC.

I think the call for more 'music from their own countries' mainly means music and languages that we don't get to hear very often in skating. Otherwise, the French and Canadians choose French music fairly often, the Italians sometimes skate to Italian music, etc (Capellini/Lanotte's Amarcord is one that comes to my mind immediately, so captivating!)... But apart from the speakers of Spanish, Italian, English and French (and Russian), there are so many nationalities out there who seldom, if ever, skate to 'their' music (still less their music with their vocals). Koreans, Germans, the Dutch, the Swedes (thank you for your Abba gala, Josefin Taljegard!), Estonians, the Finns, Georgians, Hungarians, and don't get me started on Czech skaters not having picked Dvorak, Smetana or Mahler in years...
That's why I tend to remember those programs, even if they don't score big points: Peng/Zhang's Yellow River concerto, Hongyi Chen's FS to a Chinese song, Hayrapetyan's Armenian Rhapsody, Amodio's Memories of Sobral, the late Denis Ten's Ambush From Four Sides also counts IIRC?, and some more... Or I doubt anyone here really remembers the Croatian skater Vrdolyak who stopped competing I think more than an Olympic Cycle ago, but I still recall his program to music from the Black Cat White Cat movie (I think the movie was either Croatian or Serbian?), although he didn't even make the FS at Europeans.
I want more skaters to be gutsy with music like that!
icewhite said:
The female skaters are even more traditional.

But in general, that's not a huge list when you consider how many of the top skaters are Asian these days, and most of these are soundtracks, some of movies that are very well known in "the west". It's not exactly music you heard at home and school and that people from other countries may not know about.
Click to expand...

This! Seconded by me. Japan is a huge powerhouse - for now in singles, but with budding pairs and ID fields. I would like more of their skaters to use their music - because for a number of people around the world that follow FS, their programs might be the first exposure to those songs ever. I for one (and I don't think I'm alone out there) don't listen to the radio, music videos or music TV, so opportunities to expand my music horizons through a sport I enjoy, are very welcome.
As far as I am concerned, original music is a way of educating the audience :)
 
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el henry

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surimi said:
....
Interesting, I didn't know about Donovan using Mexican music. Good for him! I haven't had all that many opportunities to watch him in the last few years (boo, copyrights and geoblocks), but with Autumn Classic footages hopefully up on Dailymotion, my hopes are up.

About your question that I bolded, I think the latter's the case. At least IMO. There's not so little Spanish out there, even without tangos. All those Malaguenas, vocal Aranjuez, and Yo Soy Marias (okay, that one's a tango), flamencos like Poeta, every couple of years we hear a number of paso dobles in ID, there were some Despacitos a few years ago... Plus more rarely used songs like Besame Mucho (hoping that one actually *is* Spanish as I don't speak the language) that Camden has skated to recently, IIRC.
....
I think the call for more 'music from their own countries' mainly means music and languages that we don't get to hear very often in skating
As far as I am concerned, original music is a way of educating the audience :)
Click to expand...

Thank you for your answer, very interesting.

So now I have another question. Music in Spanish of course encompasses an enormous and wide variety of musical styles, not simply singing in Spanish language.

Do fans really think that because they are bored with Invierno Porteño (I know I am) that they heard the wide variety of music from Latin American countries? That because they are sick of Je suis malade (see what I did there? ;)) that they know Québécois or African Francophone music?

How do we educate the skating public that they have heard as little of those universes of music as they have of Korean or Japanese language music?
Or maybe we can't:scratch2:

Donovan is skating this year, in part, to Besame Mucho as sung by 50s Mexican star Pedro Infante. Besame is a Mexican bolero. Not to confused with the Bolero we all know and love. :biggrin:
 
surimi

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el henry said:
So now I have another question. Music in Spanish of course encompasses an enormous and wide variety of musical styles, not simply singing in Spanish language.

Do fans really think that because they are bored with Invierno Porteño (I know I am) that they heard the wide variety of music from Latin American countries? That because they are sick of Je suis malade (see what I did there? ;)) that they know Québécois or African Francophone music?
Click to expand...

I'm all for using those types of music as well, at the expense of shunning warhorses (which, after all, were the subject of this thread, and if sung, they invariably come in those 4 languages I brought forth). But at the same time, there have been a few good points in favor of warhorses, from lesser costs for skaters to musical structure remarkably suitable for skating, and to being proven in terms of judges' understanding and favor. I guess the ISU encouraging judges to reward out-of-the-box programs can be the way to go? I have no better idea.
 
G

gkelly

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Out of curiosity, which would you rather see rewarded/encouraged more?

Innovative choreography/program structure, even if the music is a skating warhorse, or a novel arrangement of a very familiar tune?

Music that has never been heard in skating before, even if the musical style is familiar (e.g., ballet, action movie soundtrack, pop ballad perhaps in an underused language) and so is the choreography?

Rarely music with rhythms/tempos that don't work well with the physical demands of skating programs
-with choreography that does its best to match the music, often at the expense of clean programs
-with choreography that focuses on technical element execution, often at the expense of ignoring the music?
 
eppen

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Loved the lists, thank you all! So, it was actually only Hanyu who had not used Japanese music ever :biggrin:)

Javi was sort of mocked for doing a lot of Spanish stuff, but I dunno. He did a "flamenco light" short in 2008-9 (not Paco de Lucia as the official bios show but Baghdad by Jesse Cook), did the Brian Setzer version of Malaguena at one part of 2009-10 (I think it was used once), Mask of Zorro short 2012-3 (sort of Spanish??), The Barber of Seville (sort of Spanish, though sung in Italian - it was intended as a reference to his country). Malaguena and Man of La Mancha ofc rather Spanish, although the latter is an American musical... I did think it was fabulous when he went all Spanish for his last Europeans in 2019: Malaguena, Man of La Mancha and Prometo at the gala.

If I think about Finnish skaters, Sibelius is the obvious choice for many, but not very many have gone for Finnish music. I remember Rahkamo & Kokko doing the Säkkijärven polkka dressed in Sami costumes (would not happen today!), Susanna Pöykiö did "Sisu: Vanhoja poikia viiksekkäitä" by Iiro Rantala & Pekka Kuusisto, Kiira Korpi did bits from Agatha by Kerkko Koskinen. Viveca Lindfors used Tuomas Kantelinen's Lumikuningatar for a short. Lepistö never touched Finnish music for her competetive programs. Could not find anyone in the international scene who would have used Finnish language music.

I think it was under this thread that we talked about the 1980s bits? @TallyT, one of the singles skaters at ACI got me - Joey Russel had given Ultravox's Vienna to Boyang Jin. A somewhat incomprehensible choice for the skater, but at least they had not murdered the song (there was only one awkward cut). I was mentally ready for programs with Kate Bush's Running up that Hill after its huge success with Stranger Things - and that is far from being my face Kate song anyway, so go ahead...

E
 
icewhite

icewhite

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gkelly said:
Out of curiosity, which would you rather see rewarded/encouraged more?

Innovative choreography/program structure, even if the music is a skating warhorse, or a novel arrangement of a very familiar tune?

Music that has never been heard in skating before, even if the musical style is familiar (e.g., ballet, action movie soundtrack, pop ballad perhaps in an underused language) and so is the choreography?

Rarely music with rhythms/tempos that don't work well with the physical demands of skating programs
-with choreography that does its best to match the music, often at the expense of clean programs
-with choreography that focuses on technical element execution, often at the expense of ignoring the music?
Click to expand...

Personally, I would rather have new choreography to a warhorse than a boring choreo to new music. But, do we really have to choose? I don't think so. Really, like I said before, often when suddenly "new" music (which might also be an old song from the 70s or 80s) gets used often I realize it has been used in a movie recently and obviously that's why people suddenly came across it and even realized it exists and you can do something with it. "I put a spell on you" for instance which was there for ages, but apparently it was used in 50 shades of grey? and suddenly a thousand teams seem to think it's a great fit for figure skating - so I don't buy that this music isn't used before because it's so hard to do a good choreo for it. It's because people didn't think of it or didn't bother to or are very unimaginative.

And you can cut and mix and remix as much as you want to, there are so many possibilities if a song doesn't fit entirely well. In that regard I am thinking for instance of Mozalev's new free skate now, which does it so well.

No, there are just too many examples of what you can do with a bit of knowledge of music and interest to do it, to convince me that there is only a very limited amount of music you can skate to.
 
moonvine

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Why are so few skaters For example, 80's rhythm dance, I know Rocky Horror came out in 1975 but was very very popular throughout the 80s. Anything from the movie or TV show Fame. Ghostbusters? Yes, I'm sure someone will say "well such and so skated to that in 1981" but I'm talking about now. Something that like half the teams are not going to skate to. I've always wanted to see someone skate to "I Sing the Body Electric" but that might not be a good choice, I'm not a choreographer. Something that doesn't make my ears bleed and is out of the box. Maybe they're afraid to leave the box because they might get lowballed?
 
icewhite

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moonvine said:
Why are so few skaters For example, 80's rhythm dance, I know Rocky Horror came out in 1975 but was very very popular throughout the 80s. Anything from the movie or TV show Fame. Ghostbusters? Yes, I'm sure someone will say "well such and so skated to that in 1981" but I'm talking about now. Something that like half the teams are not going to skate to. I've always wanted to see someone skate to "I Sing the Body Electric" but that might not be a good choice, I'm not a choreographer. Something that doesn't make my ears bleed and is out of the box. Maybe they're afraid to leave the box because they might get lowballed?
Click to expand...

To be fair it's a lot more difficult to find music that most people enjoy and that is understood universally than I make it sound.
I just realized that again with "sans contrefacon" which I have long loved and I also really like the video and Mylène Farmers look in it and I thought of it as something iconic and well-known and that even if you didn't know it you would find the music engaging. But then I saw here (and realized) that it was not like that, that it's a pretty out of the box choice and people wonder why certain elements in the program happen like that. There are many such cases of course.

To be liked... I really like Muse and Billie Eilish, but obviously many people don't. Still they get picked a lot. But then skaters have made the experience that even if some people don't like it they are not getting "punished" for it, so it's okay to pick it.
I suppose it requires more bravery than I sometimes imagine to pick something different for the first time where you don't know what not just the judges, but the audience will think. Because after all we all want to be liked and if we get on a stage we hope for applause.
 
Ic3Rabbit

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moonvine said:
Why are so few skaters For example, 80's rhythm dance, I know Rocky Horror came out in 1975 but was very very popular throughout the 80s. Anything from the movie or TV show Fame. Ghostbusters? Yes, I'm sure someone will say "well such and so skated to that in 1981" but I'm talking about now. Something that like half the teams are not going to skate to. I've always wanted to see someone skate to "I Sing the Body Electric" but that might not be a good choice, I'm not a choreographer. Something that doesn't make my ears bleed and is out of the box. Maybe they're afraid to leave the box because they might get lowballed?
Click to expand...
KoKo from Japan is skating their RD to Ghostbusters.
 
TallyT

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gkelly said:
Out of curiosity, which would you rather see rewarded/encouraged more?

Innovative choreography/program structure, even if the music is a skating warhorse, or a novel arrangement of a very familiar tune?
Click to expand...
Can't we ask for both the good choreo and the good music?😡

Okay, I know that a lot of the time we probably can't. But complaining about repeated music, and then complaining when some of the kids go outside the box with music they like and older fans definitely don't, and then complaining that the music is good but the cut makes out ears bleed, and then...

We just had a long thread that included how not all the skaters are artistic, and they certainly ain't classical music buffs.
 
rabidline

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gkelly said:
Out of curiosity, which would you rather see rewarded/encouraged more?

Innovative choreography/program structure, even if the music is a skating warhorse, or a novel arrangement of a very familiar tune?

Music that has never been heard in skating before, even if the musical style is familiar (e.g., ballet, action movie soundtrack, pop ballad perhaps in an underused language) and so is the choreography?

Rarely music with rhythms/tempos that don't work well with the physical demands of skating programs
-with choreography that does its best to match the music, often at the expense of clean programs
-with choreography that focuses on technical element execution, often at the expense of ignoring the music?
Click to expand...
Honestly, for me it doesn't matter if the music has never been heard in skating before and the skater is pioneering its first use in figure skating. If the choreo isn't good and the skater isn't able to perform and present the program well, I think there shouldn't be pity points in presentation and/or composition just because the skater uses rare, different music.

My personal preference is a program that does its best to match or even ENHANCE the music, even at the expense of lost levels (especially with spins and steps) is rewarded more in PCS even though it will fairly lose some TES. But I'm part of the audience, and not the competitor. I'm sure the competitors wants as many points as possible and losing levels or jumps is just not the best strategy.
 
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labgoat

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eppen said:
I remember Rahkamo & Kokko doing the Säkkijärven polkka dressed in Sami costumes (would not happen today!)
Click to expand...
I too remember this polka. I remember the judges marking them down and deciding that they didn’t skate a correct polka In their first effort at Skate America 1991-1992 season.
youtu.be

Review of Compulsory and Original Dances - 1991 Skate America, Ice Dancing

Oakland, California,USA - 1991 Skate America, Ice Dancing - Review of the Compulsory Dances and the Original Dances.
youtu.be youtu.be

They later changed the music and the dance To the polka you mentioned.
youtu.be

Susanna Rahkamo & Petri Kokko FIN - 1992 World Figure Skating Championships Original Dance

CD: 5th, OD: 5th, FD: 5th, 5th placeMarch 24th-29th, Oakland, USA
youtu.be youtu.be
 
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