Yulia Lipnitskaya

[Alba]

I don't care about ranking. I just wish she end season on a major note. She needs at least one clean skate, just to believe in herself again. Maybe without any pressure on some irrelevant event she will skate at least without falls. IMO, she really needs it now, probably more than ever.

Ah well, maybe. But I also know that if you push it you will end up having the opposite effect.
You never know though. If she wants to keep trying why not.

I never said I see death in this program. I simply said that R&J is a tragedy and the music edit is very somber/sad. To watch this program, I don't think 'happy times'.

Well the tragedy in Juliet is that they both die in the end. So if you tell me tragic that's what I intend. Rota's theme "A time for Us" which she starts the program is tender and romantic. It's evocative of love vs hatred, youth vs age. There is also a part of Yann Tiersen music, in the middle section, which is reminiscent of Amélie, and the last part from Korzeniowski "forbidden Love", which is a bit more epic and melancholic. Ilya's idea was that she is playing in a theater, hence the curtain gesture. Anyway, no it's not "happy", you are right. Not as in "I'm happy in love". Personally I see it more as a meditation about love, with all the colours and moods. But that's my personal take on it.

Edit: On a funny note though. With all the falls it's bound to sound and look tragic.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Ah well, maybe. But I also know that if you push it you will end up having the opposite effect.
You never know though. If she wants to keep trying why not.

OMG... It's funny to think. In the end I'll be the one dying though.

Edit: On a funny note though. With all the falls it's bound to sound and look tragic.

Are you suggesting 10's for IN scores :think:

 

[sabinfire]

Well the tragedy in Juliet is that they both die in the end. So if you tell me tragic that's what I intend.

I think we are just getting lost in semantics now. I say tragedy from the standpoint of a Shakespearean tragedy of R&J.

Maybe we can put it simply this way: Love is tragic.

 

[Alba]

OMG... It's funny to think. In the end I'll be the one dying though.

Well, today I was not nervous at all. It's funny but I had the same attitude and feelings while watching Ksenia and Fedor, and I was sure they will do well but they ended up falling twice. I think I can relax now and enjoy whatever performance she will put out there. I just don't want to see her in a position when Eteri has to tell her: You're in a hole, stop digging. So that's why I said better rest. Give the exams that she has in Jan. Unplug from skating, for a while, and prepare for the next season in all tranquility.

 

[Alba]

Are you suggesting 10's for IN scores :think:

Absolutely.
The judges just don't understand.

 

[Sandpiper]

Thanks, Sandpiper. This is a very eloquent explanation of the positive side of the program, although we are in agreement that there is certainly tragedy and melancholy in there... to me, it is the most dominating element.

That's a valid interpretation. For me as well, the melancholy (but not the tragedy--subtle difference, I know) dominates. The music is heartbreaking, especially this arrangement (compared to the more bombastic one Yuzuru skated to last year). However, I interpret it was the sadness and pain of first love--not the tragedy of death. There is no death in Yulia's LP, as far as I can see (compare: Jason Brown's T&I, where he mimes drinking poison; Kavaguti/Smirnov's Manfred, where Yuko leans against Alexander in a spread-eagle as if she were dead).

I think Yulia is portraying the different emotions that surround love, with melancholy ultimately winning out. But is this because of what she does on the ice, or because of the baggage us audience members brought with us? It's almost a kind of dramatic irony: We, the audience, know how this love will end, even though Juliet does not. And we also know Yulia as the girl in the red coat, famous for portraying tragedy--some post-modernism there as well, perhaps.

 

[Alba]

That's a valid interpretation. For me as well, the melancholy (but not the tragedy--subtle difference, I know) dominates. The music is heartbreaking, especially this arrangement (compared to the more bombastic one Yuzuru skated to last year). However, I interpret it was the sadness and pain of first love--not the tragedy of death. There is no death in Yulia's LP, as far as I can see (compare: Jason Brown's T&I, where he mimes drinking poison; Kavaguti/Smirnov's Manfred, where Yuko leans against Alexander in a spread-eagle as if she were dead).

That's exactly what I said as well.
By the way, there is a big difference between melancholy and tragedy, IMO. But it might be a cultural thing. I don't know.

 

[sabinfire]

I don't think tragedy=death in all instances, but in the case of R&J that is the first thing your mind tends to wander to. However, when I think of R&J, I think it's a tragedy for the love story contained within, not because people died at the end. If that were the case, many movies and TV shows would be considered great tragedies, because someone died at some point. R&J is great because it is the love that is tragic, not the death. At least that's my interpretation.

 

[sabinfire]

By the way, there is a big difference between melancholy and tragedy, IMO. But it might be a cultural thing. I don't know.

I think it is, which is why I said we're lost in semantics. R&J = literary tragedy. The definition of a literary tragedy: "A drama or literary work in which the main character is brought to ruin or suffers extreme sorrow, especially as a consequence of a tragic flaw, moral weakness, or inability to cope with unfavorable circumstances."

There is no mention of death in there.

 

[sjid]

I don't think tragedy=death in all instances, but in the case of R&J that is the first thing your mind tends to wander to. However, when I think of R&J, I think it's a tragedy for the love story contained within, not because people died at the end. If that were the case, many movies and TV shows would be considered great tragedies, because someone died at some point. R&J is great because it is the love that is tragic, not the death. At least that's my interpretation.

sabinfire, With Yulia it is essential to listen to the music because she wants to express the personal message it holds. She said that I want to tell (you) what I feel. The title should never have been R&J because that leads us to certain preconceived notions. Alba and I had a converstation on this a few weeks ago, we thought of Meditation on Love and Fantasia on Love. That conversation is buried somewhere in the early 200's. About that time I wrote this brief overview of R&J from a purely musical perspective, which I am convinced is Yulia's perspective. This music holds a wealth of enlightenment when viewed from the perspective of Fantasia on First Love. Much can be said about it. Time spent on repeated listenings to the music, and watching her TEB performance, will be well-rewarded. Let your imagination soar.

Yulia's program uses music taken from R&J, and also uses complementary music in the middle section by Yann Tiersen (Mother's Journey, many thanks for that info, Sam). She (and I assume Ilya had a major hand in this) appropriates the music for a program that has nothing much to do with R&J. The title comes from Rota's compostion, but her program is more like a meditation on the experience of first love. We have the awakening, then tenderness (Rota), then a mystical spiritual experience (Yann T), then a full statement of emotion (back to Rota). Sam do you know where those first two phrases come from, where she covers her face and then lifts arms and head (this is the awakening)? There is a second awakening gesture just before the Yann T footwork section., following the spin. I mention this because this spin-awakening gesture sequence is nearly identical to Schindlers List just before the footwork section where she stopped up against the wall. This is all classic Yulia. I expect the footwork section to rival SL. The important thing to keep in mind is that her program doesn't really have much to do with the Shakespeare tragedy, it is philosophical-psychological, a meditation on first love.

 

[Sandpiper]

"brought to ruin" usually means death though. But not always, true.

Death is often not tragedy. But tragedy does often end with death (especially this particular one).

 

[sjid]

Yulia was so shaken during her performance that she couldn't even remember the second half of the step sequence. What we saw was an improvisation. That set the stage for the debacle that followed.

 

[sabinfire]

Sorry, I wasn't aware some of this had already been covered further back in this thread, but it is still helpful since I have never analyzed the deeper meaning behind Julia's program before. So thank you for that information, and I will definitely see the performances in a different light going forward.

 

[dada16]

Yes I saw that just after 2A-3T-2T

 

[Alba]

I think it is, which is why I said we're lost in semantics. R&J = literary tragedy. The definition of a literary tragedy: "A drama or literary work in which the main character is brought to ruin or suffers extreme sorrow, especially as a consequence of a tragic flaw, moral weakness, or inability to cope with unfavorable circumstances."

There is no mention of death in there.

But in Juliet case there is death, and that's what we were talking about before. Maybe you didn't meant that way, I know now. But when you mention tragedy, in this case death come to mind imediately. Still, in my book, there is no extreme sorrow or sadness in Yulia's program. There is tenderness, there is romanticism, there is melancholy.

Edit: I see sidj explained this better than I.

 

[NaVi]

I'm going to paste my Yulia comments from the Russian Ladies thread..

Yulia's had a good SP and a shaky LP... and that LP was a cancer that eventually infected her SP. Yulia likely would have been better off just sticking with the first program created for her by Ilia Averbukh(Yulia didn't like the music... but it can't be more disorienting than her R&J)... and Yulia also may have been better off if the Fed had not rejected her Mulan program. Yulia's bad season is a result of perfectionism from many including herself that left her with an unstable compromise program and less time to work on her other skills.

If Yulia wants to keep skating this year, she should change her LP and target the World Team Trophy which is a little under 4 months away. The LP should be something Yulia is really behind... if she wants to do Mulan then do Mulan... and if doesn't work she'd have time to change it next year and if it worked she could keep it for next year.

I think it safe bet is let go of this season and come back early next year in B events. Now would be a good time for her to focus on school so later on she could focus on skating... and also work on getting other distractions out of her life.

A couple of other comments...
1. I didn't like Yulia's R&J from the beginning because it was way too melancholy... it was as if they were trying to redo Schindler's List.
2. Yulia's R&J music is enormously disorienting... you don't get lost in the music, the music makes you feel lost... it forces "self reflection" which may not be a good thing while you're skating....
3. I wonder if the Mulan program was rejected because it was kind of like Evgenia's and Serafima's programs and the Fed didn't think that style of skating fit Yulia anymore.
4. If Yulia dicides to come back with a different LP, (If not Mulan) Yulia should consider letting Eteri picking the music follow on the choreography... now is the time for pointscoring and not artistry.

 

[sabinfire]

"brought to ruin" usually means death though. But not always, true.

Death is often not tragedy. But tragedy does often end with death (especially this particular one).

That would be an oddly phrased way to explain a death, but yes, a tragedy could end with death. That's a pretty safe statement to make considering everything ends in death.

"Brought to ruin OR suffers extreme sorrow": evidently, just feeling really terrible is a tragedy in itself? But that ties back into the sorrow, the melancholy. Obviously, there is a whole story contained within R&J, I am not sure why we keep discussing the 'death' part of it, as I never stated or implied that Julia's performance contained some kind of death... just that it was tragic.

 

[sjid]

Sorry, I wasn't aware some of this had already been covered further back in this thread, but it is still helpful since I have never analyzed the deeper meaning behind Julia's program before. So thank you for that information, and I will definitely see the performances in a different light going forward.

I looked it up. If interested, please start about 2/3 down page 202.

 

[Alba]

I am not sure why we keep discussing the 'death' part of it, as I never stated or implied that Julia's performance contained some kind of death... just that it was tragic.

Because I thought you were speaking about the tragedy as in Shakespeare's R&J.
Yulia's program has the same title, and use 2 parts of music from movies with the same title. Hence my confusion with your post.

 

[sjid]

But in Juliet case there is death, and that's what we were talking about before. Maybe you didn't meant that way, I know now. But when you mention tragedy, in this case death come to mind imediately. Still, in my book, there is no extreme sorrow or sadness in Yulia's program. There is tenderness, there is romanticism, there is melancholy.

Edit: I see sidj explained this better than I.

All that, you are so right. And the great burst of splendor as we enter the third section, the full blossoming of her love. Very unlikely she will go back to this, so unfortunate for it could have been a crowning masterpiece. But Bruckner didn't complete his final symphony, Mozart his Requiem ........... I personally don't find those comparisons at all inappropriate. I pray that something will be done to save the genius that is Yulia.