2014 Cup of China Ladies Free Skate 11/08

[zamboni step]

Assuming that Julia Lipnitskaya was lying and got Tatiana Flade to cover for her (which is frankly insulting to both of them)... the comparison to Plushenko in Vancouver, at the very least, is irrelevant. Plushenko was upset with the judging, not with himself. He was also a veteran competitor in his late twenties at the time. Julia Lipnitskaya is neither of those things.

Julia's comments and behavior, both when she's won and when she didn't, suggest to me that while she may not have issues with her physical health like some skaters, she could be dealing with psychological issues. I do not want to play armchair psychologist and attempt to diagnose someone I don't know, but I think it would be best to give her the benefit of the doubt. I realize that there can be a tendency to downplay psychological issues compared to physical ones - after all, Julia didn't get knocked out like Hanyu did - but sometimes it's not so easy to just get over it. To me Julia looks like she could use compassion and understanding at this point, and hopefully she will eventually learn to better deal with the emotional repercussions of performing poorly.

Exactly, she has always struck me as the kind to put an exorbitant and unfair amount of pressure on herself, which is not healthy. This may or may not be true, but I feel we could at least try to calm down in relation to what is a small hiccup in the grand scheme of things. Comparing her to Yu-Na or Evgeni is just ridiculous.

 

[minze]

Assuming that Julia Lipnitskaya was lying and got Tatiana Flade to cover for her (which is frankly insulting to both of them)... the comparison to Plushenko in Vancouver, at the very least, is irrelevant. Plushenko was upset with the judging, not with himself. He was also a veteran competitor in his late twenties at the time. Julia Lipnitskaya is neither of those things.

Julia's comments and behavior, both when she's won and when she didn't, suggest to me that while she may not have issues with her physical health like some skaters, she could be dealing with psychological issues. I do not want to play armchair psychologist and attempt to diagnose someone I don't know, but I think it would be best to give her the benefit of the doubt. I realize that there can be a tendency to downplay psychological issues compared to physical ones - after all, Julia didn't get knocked out like Hanyu did - but sometimes it's not so easy to just get over it. To me Julia looks like she could use compassion and understanding at this point, and hopefully she will eventually learn to better deal with the emotional repercussions of performing poorly.

What comments have she made? Just curious. I think is the case of a young who puts way too much pressure on herself. I critized her in the past when she couldn't bring her self to hug Mao at 2012 Cup of China... But I think I was wrong to judge her in that regard... I think Yulia is the type of skaters who gets mad at herself when she does not perform up to her standards


Yulia is on her way of becoming the face of Figure Skating that is a lot ti deal with

 

[zamboni step]

What comments have she made? Just curious. I think is the case of a young who puts way too much pressure on herself. I critized her in the past when she couldn't bring her self to hug Mao at 2012 Cup of China... But I think I was wrong to judge her in that regard... I think Yulia is the top skaters who gets mad at herself when she does not perform up to her standards


Yulia is on her way of becoming the face of Figure Skating that is a lot ti deal with

One thing that always scared me was how much she spoke about weight. In one interview she seemed a little obsessed with it, saying at one point during the Summer her reflection looked like "Two Julia's." Also her reaction to not being in 1st after her SP at 2013 Junior Worlds was alarmingly mad, now I feel it was probably anger that was aimed at herself. This is all speculation though and could be completely off base.

 

[Snow63]

OMG, people still are not over it. Yulia really brings a lot feelings from people, sometimes good and sometimes bad. but she's not boring for sure
I think she didn't attend ceremony not because she didn't know what time it started. Really. There is probably some problem she's not comfortable to talk about. And I'm also sure it's not because she thought she didn't deserve 2nd place, or was too sad or mad or whatever. BUT these all are just our speculations. We probably will never know the real reason, so we should just deal with it. The sompetition is over, the winners are announced. See you next week in CoR thread I'm sure there will be a lot of fun, as always in CoR threads

 

[minze]

OMG, people still are not over it. Yulia really brings a lot feelings from people, sometimes good and sometimes bad. but she's not boring for sure
I think she didn't attend ceremony not because she didn't know what time it started. Really. There is probably some problem she's not comfortable to talk about. And I'm also sure it's not because she thought she didn't deserve 2nd place, or was too sad or mad or whatever. BUT these all are just our speculations. We probably will never know the real reason, so we should just deal with it. The sompetition is over, the winners are announced. See you next week in CoR thread I'm sure there will be a lot of fun, as always in CoR threads

There is nothing wrong with discussing an event. Discussion Forum.

 

[ice coverage]

"It's not the crime; it's the cover-up" is a common saying in the U.S. (with "crime" often meant only in a figurative sense).

This saying is very apt for the case of YL, imo.
It is extremely hard even for some longstanding YL supporters to believe the tweet from Tatjana Flade (wearing her ISU hat) -- which said that Team YL "did not know that awards came at the end."

https://twitter.com/Tatjana21/status/531156316824162304​

Also troubling to me is that Team YL has not expressed any regret, AFAIK. The tweet offered only a far-fetched excuse, which stirred up skepticism from many (including me).

If Team YL did not wish to give any sense of the true reason for her absence, what the tweet simply should have said instead: "Lipnitskaya is sorry that she was unable to attend the medal ceremony," or something similarly apologetic and nonspecific. Nothing more and nothing less.

Assuming that Julia Lipnitskaya was lying and got Tatiana Flade to cover for her (which is frankly insulting to both of them)....

Much of what ruffled my feathers was the hiding behind the silly excuse over the schedule. I found it insulting to fans that they were expected to be too stupid to see right through its lameness.

(As I said in a much earlier post, I do feel bad for Flade that she got stuck being the ISU mouthpiece for YL's comments.)

... Is it any wonder that it slipped her mind? ...

Not singling you out CL_fan -- just using you as an example of those who are mistaken as to what the tweet from Flade said.

It said that YL did not know when the ceremony was -- even more implausible than forgetting.

... I do think that if 16 is too young to be held accountable to meet normal, contractual obligations of a sport, then it is too young to compete at the Senior level. ...

:agree: As I said in the YL fan thread, competing as a Senior brings not only higher highs (greater emotional highs, higher glory, greater prize money, etc.), but also lower lows. If a skater wants to enjoy the former at the Senior level, then s/he needs to accept the latter at the Senior level as well.

... Max showed up at Nationals, even when he'd just had his heart torn out of his chest (and if we want to talk about people with poor self-image, there's one right there).

Off topic: I heartily disagree that Max Aaron has a poor self-image, if that is what you mean. Max sets high standards for himself, but to me that is very different from having a poor self-image.

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

I don't know why posters such as CaroLiza_fan have the right to censor other posters and close a thread. Her reason for doing so is that other people's opinions would be buried in this thread. If you think Julia did nothing wrong, why do you wanna cover it up? Hypocritical much?

Whoa, whoa, whoa!!!

I don't have the power to close threads. All I did was suggest that the separate thread might be closed. Let's face it, it was silly that we had 2 threads in which the same conversation, involving the same people, saying the same things was getting really heated.

Oh, and I should add, I didn't even report the thread. The moderators just closed it of their own accord. (They must have agreed that having 2 threads on the same topic was silly!)

As for wanting the conversation to get buried, well I'll own up to that. I just don't like conspiracy theories. Especially when there is no evidence to back it up.

But at no stage did I say that Julia had done nothing wrong. In fact, if you read my post in this thread, you will see that I said she did do wrong:

Of course, Julia Lipnitskaia shouldn't have missed the podium ceremony. BUT SHE'S A CHILD! We could all see just how upset she was after her FS. Is it any wonder that it slipped her mind?

I normally make a point of not getting involved with heated debates like this, because it only leaves you open to abuse. The only reason I got involved in this argument was because people were being extremely critical of a teenage girl. And, in the wake of what has happened Julia Antipova, I did not think this was right.

And, at the end of the day, rather than arguing about the actions of an upset little girl, we have far more important things to worry about.

Just remember, two of our top young Men's skaters collided yesterday, and were not given the adequete help and support they needed in the immediate aftermath of what happened.

In this day and age, when so much emphasis is placed on health and safety, that is scandalous.

And finally, I am a "him", not a "her"

Hope this helps clear things up

CaroLiza_fan

 

[minze]

Whoa, whoa, whoa!!!

I don't have the power to close threads. All I did was suggest that the separate thread might be closed. Let's face it, it was silly that we had 2 threads in which the same conversation, involving the same people, saying the same things was getting really heated.

Oh, and I should add, I didn't even report the thread. The moderators just closed it of their own accord. (They must have agreed that having 2 threads on the same topic was silly!)

As for wanting the conversation to get buried, well I'll own up to that. I just don't like conspiracy theories. Especially when there is no evidence to back it up.

But at no stage did I say that Julia had done nothing wrong. In fact, if you read my post in this thread, you will see that I said she did do wrong:



I normally make a point of not getting involved with heated debates like this, because it only leaves you open to abuse. The only reason I got involved in this argument was because people were being extremely critical of a teenage girl. And, in the wake of what has happened Julia Antipova, I did not think this was right.

And, at the end of the day, rather than arguing about the actions of an upset little girl, we have far more important things to worry about.

Just remember, two of our top young Men's skaters collided yesterday, and were not given the adequete help and support they needed in the immediate aftermath of what happened.

In this day and age, when so much emphasis is placed on health and safety, that is scandalous.

And finally, I am a "him", not a "her"

Hope this helps clear things up

CaroLiza_fan

I agree with you.

 

[Snow63]

There is nothing wrong with discussing an event. Discussion Forum.

You got me wrong. I'm not against any discussions. But discussion means new arguments, new facts, saying same things over and over and over again is not a discussion.
I mean, I came here today and what I see? Same people saying the same things that were said yesterday. More than that, even new thread was created, and these people said all the same things there too. I'm not talking about everyone of course.

 

[apple123]

You say it's unsportsmanlike but I tend to agree with those who think she didn't show up because she felt she didn't deserve her medal. Which is completely different from Plushenko and Aaron.

This is exactly what's wrong with her fans' defense. First of all, since when you can just decide not to show up at awards ceremony by yourself? Secondly, her fans are not only give some unbelievable reasons, but also glorify her action. So now she's so good for the inflation that she had to turn it down. Did she turn down the prize and points? No! But she turned down the ceremony to acknowledge she came in second. What a load of crap.

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

"It's not the crime; it's the cover-up" is a common saying in the U.S. (with "crime" often meant only in a figurative sense).

This saying is very apt for the case of YL, imo.
It is extremely hard even for some longstanding YL supporters to believe the tweet from Tatjana Flade (wearing her ISU hat) -- which said that Team YL "did not know that awards came at the end."

https://twitter.com/Tatjana21/status/531156316824162304​

Also troubling to me is that Team YL has not expressed any regret, AFAIK. The tweet offered only a far-fetched excuse, which stirred up skepticism from many (including me).

If Team YL did not wish to give any sense of the true reason for her absence, what the tweet simply should have said instead: "Lipnitskaya is sorry that she was unable to attend the medal ceremony," or something similar. Nothing more and nothing less.

Much of what ruffled my feathers was hiding behind the silly excuse over the schedule, as if we would be too stupid to see right through its lameness.



Not singling you out CL_fan -- just using you as an example of those who are mistaken as to what the tweet from Flade said.

It said that YL did not know when the ceremony was -- even more implausible than forgetting.

Fair enough point about the wording of Tatjana's post (saying Julia didn't know rather than she forgot).

I have to be honest, I was more concerned with all the arguing going on around it in that thread, and didn't give Tatjana's post the attention it deserved!


But, I do think that you have a very good point, golden. We need to hear a comment of some kind about the absence from Julia or her team. If only to shut up all these conspiracy theorists.

Unless a comment comes very soon, this debate will unfortunately continue.

CaroLiza_fan

 

[Dots]

So the official statement is that she (and her entire team ) forgot the medal ceremony at the end? :disapp:

I mean do these people not realized how bad it looks? Couldn't she just put a bit of make-up to make her look sick and pretend she was ill? If I were her I would be like " I've the flu. I didn't want Liza to catch as well" *angel face*

 

[ice coverage]

So the official statement is that she (and her entire team ) forgot the medal ceremony at the end? :disapp: ...

Again:

No, the tweet did not say that YL "forgot." It said that she did not "know."​

 

[flutzy13]

This is exactly what's wrong with her fans' defense. First of all, since when you can just decide not to show up at awards ceremony by yourself? Secondly, her fans are not only give some unbelievable reasons, but also glorify her action. So now she's so good for the inflation that she had to turn it down. Did she turn down the prize and points? No! But she turned down the ceremony to acknowledge she came in second. What a load of crap.

:agree:

This idea that she is so honorable that she decided she shouldn't accept a silver after that skate is truly A++++ spin. If I were her team, I would make that the official statement.

Re the she's just a 16 year old child/little girl comments....I have never seen such rabid defense of any other teenage skater due to age and this sport has certainly had many. She is a professional athlete competing at the highest level of her sport. As some have so aptly said if her age makes her unable to handle the emotional lows and renders her unable to participate in the customary medal ceremony, she doesn't belong at this level even if she is capable physically. And by participating, I think she's fair game for comments and criticisms that Yuna, Plushenko, Tara (who at 14/15 was villainized by many) and every other skater were subject to regardless of whether she is 14, 16, 18 or 30.

 

[Jaana]

If there is a villain in skating right now, it is a judge.

Who was the technical caller and what country were they from? Why were the Americans judged so harshly compared to others? I don't agree with the 'e' calls Polina got on her flips. How was Julia able to hold on to the silver after THAT? It is so unbelievable.

Here is the whole judging panel:

http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpchn2014/SEG004OF.HTM

 

[Ophelia]

Then level of harsh criticism here towards Lipniskaia is unbelievable and bordering on psychological abuse, IMO. Some posters sound quite personally affronted that Lipniskaia skipped the medal ceremony and broke the rules. I haven't even seen this level of outrage towards officials who handled Ebola cases incompetently.

I think situations need to be evaluated by context instead of a one glove fits all approach (aka skater X would never do this!). Lipniskaia experienced what was likely one of the most traumatic experiences of her young life with that LP. While her actions are unprofessional, people should be more understanding of her state of mind. Haven't any of you dealt with a heartbroken teen? Didnt y'all mess up as a teenager too? That stuff ain't easy. Yes she's competing with the seniors now and needs to learn how to deal with losses. She'll learn through experiences like this one.

There is no need to call for her to be penalized to no mans land and hoping that she'll forever be diminished in the eyes of the skating world (I hope skaters are way more understanding than posters here). I'm hoping her team shields her from all this outcry because sheesh, I worry about her mental state having to face this.

 

[minze]

Then level of harsh criticism here towards Lipniskaia is unbelievable and bordering on psychological abuse, IMO. Some posters sound quite personally affronted that Lipniskaia skipped the medal ceremony and broke the rules. I haven't even seen this level of outrage towards officials who handled Ebola cases incompetently.

I think situations need to be evaluated by context instead of a one glove fits all approach (aka skater X would never do this!). Lipniskaia experienced what was likely one of the most traumatic experiences of her young life with that LP. While her actions are unprofessional, people should be more understanding of her state of mind. Haven't any of you dealt with a heartbroken teen? Didnt y'all mess up as a teenager too? That stuff ain't easy. Yes she's competing with the seniors now and needs to learn how to deal with losses. She'll learn through experiences like this one.

There is no need to call for her to be penalized to no mans land and hoping that she'll forever be diminished in the eyes of the skating world (I hope skaters are way more understanding than posters here). I'm hoping her team shields her from all this outcry because sheesh, I worry about her mental state having to face this.

Psychologically abusive is a tad dramatic. Some posters have been harsh, but they do it to a lot skaters: see Mao Asada NHK trophy 2012 review those comments. Skating are let's just say passionate

 

[Mathman]

Couldn't she just put a bit of make-up to make her look sick and pretend she was ill? If I were her I would be like " I've the flu. I didn't want Liza to catch as well" *angel face*

*Angel face* can get you out of any scrape. :yes:

 

[louisa05]

Then level of harsh criticism here towards Lipniskaia is unbelievable and bordering on psychological abuse, IMO. Some posters sound quite personally affronted that Lipniskaia skipped the medal ceremony and broke the rules. I haven't even seen this level of outrage towards officials who handled Ebola cases incompetently.

I think situations need to be evaluated by context instead of a one glove fits all approach (aka skater X would never do this!). Lipniskaia experienced what was likely one of the most traumatic experiences of her young life with that LP. While her actions are unprofessional, people should be more understanding of her state of mind. Haven't any of you dealt with a heartbroken teen? Didnt y'all mess up as a teenager too? That stuff ain't easy. Yes she's competing with the seniors now and needs to learn how to deal with losses. She'll learn through experiences like this one.

There is no need to call for her to be penalized to no mans land and hoping that she'll forever be diminished in the eyes of the skating world (I hope skaters are way more understanding than posters here). I'm hoping her team shields her from all this outcry because sheesh, I worry about her mental state having to face this.

Psychological abuse??? Really???

Sweetie Pie broke a rule and the ISU has consequences for breaking that rule. She is 16 not 4 and 1/2. And as an elite athlete, you have to know how to comport yourself on bad days just as well as you do on good days. She did not start competing for the first time ever this weekend. She has come up through the ranks of competition like every other skater has and should have learned to behave gracefully long before this morning. Sportsmanship and simple good manners are that you deal with your disappointment without acting out in public.

She is making a good argument for raising age limits, though.

 

[MiRé]

Wait, so Yulia doesn't "deserve" all this hate because she's 16 and teen? This isn't high school, it's a competitive field. She's a senior competitor and with that kind of attitude, then surely senior is not a place for her. No this isn't a "hate" rant. Her actions were rude to other medalists and any excuse besides medical related should not be looked over. She broke the code-of-ethics and should be punished as is. People should stop coming up with lame excuses for her misconduct.