Which is why I did not repeat his talk about her no show at medal ceremony. I did, however agree with his comments on Julia's skating!
2014 Trophée Eric Bompard Ladies FS 11/22
- Thread starter dorispulaski
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- Joined
- Feb 26, 2014
I saw her there. I thought she was working for CBC.
It was funny, because I saw here sitting alone and I wasn't sure if she was Wilson or not. So, I stopped and said: Sorry. Are you....and I was hesitating. She replied: I'm Tracy....Wilson I said. Yes you're her. She started laughing.
Yeah, this is why I always prefer commentary-free streams. And even among commentators Kurt is quite biased. If he's talking about Yulia's crossovers, he should also mention Elena's posture only to be fair. Since both these issues are pretty obvious, although they are nonetheless great skaters. And so skating commentary is rarely ever fair. I try to avoid videos with commentary in languages I speak because of this. It just ruins the experience for me as a fan of the sport.
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2010
i guess this is the protocol you are looking for
and wishing haruka very good luck for nationals cause the way i see it, if she cant make world team this year its only gonna get harder for her cause juniors catching up to her so fast, i would love to see her going to worlds
EDIT: sorry just noticed treeloving already posted the protocols
Than you all for forwarding the protocols, including via PMs. Yes I agree Haruka is one of the skaters I think is undermarked, I'd place her above Rika for example. Far more elegant skater, better interpreter and musical, better upper body movement. Rika may be more athletic but she was also very lucky to have been a substitute at CoR, and skated AFTER Anna's disaster. I can't justify their PCS differences. *Shrug*.
From the protocols, I find it interesting Yuna's BV was 2+ higher than Elena's even without a 3lz3T, but soon realised it is was because of the mandatory spiral sequence that is worth approx 3.4 points. Yuna's GOEs was lower (important to consider, when rules changes after Vancouver means it would have been reduced by 30%, so her total should be approx. 130/131 by today's rule, and when you deduct the spiral sequence, that leaves her with only 126/127. There's also the scale value changes which I haven't bothered to take in account, maybe some one can.) Yuna's PCS was 5 point less than Elena here as well, which is roughly in line with what I thought Elena deserves - around 60 mark and not 65 (or 63 by todays's inflated standard from last season). But really if you compare them side by side and look at the performance/program holistically, is Elena really 10 points better overall? Or is she over marked relatively? In PCS in particular?
Actually, I realised I made an error in my example clip. Yuna was actually 17 and not 15 when she skated her 7 triples Miss Saigon (She did do 7 triples programs at age 15 at 05-06 JGPF as well as Junior worlds qualifying round), so this would make this performance her 2nd season in the GP circuit as the REIGNING GP champion and her PCS would reflect so. This is also Elena's 2nd senior GP season and she placed 4th last season on the GPF circuit. Julia at her stage last year with a program like Schindler's list were given 63 PCS at Cup of Russia where she received MAJOR home inflation already despite a bad skate. Her program is better than Elena's FS here. I admit my expectation may be coloured by the standard set by formal leading ladies like Mao, Carolina and Yuna with their established PCS history, and the TYPE of SPECIAL programs/performances to justify those PCS. Really do any of these winning program justify those marks? To me today's winning FS is junior COP skating, busy for busy's sake. Someone please give me a reason for those marks other than some of these transitions are kind of hard? Is this really the future ISU want to push the sport?
After Sochi, it is like looking at completely different standard of judging. I suppose this could be a transitional phase when the judges need to deflate slowly otherwise making Sochi inflation seems too much of a joke. I was alarmed by CoC where Kanako 60 vs Julia 69, vs Liza's 67 for putting out easiest 3T3T; when one clearly had a superior mature performance / program / musicality / interpretation, and that is Kanako! Carolina's (queen of PCS) best 3T3T program used to get around 60-63 too. Really, this sport didn't make sense anymore at that point. For the moment, I am just not buying these marks.
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I only caught Radionova's performance, but they (Browning/Lane) did:
On a whole, I'm finding their commentary to be quite critical this season, but they're not singling anybody out I don't think. I guess its not to everyone's tastes, but I like hearing their criticisms, even about skaters I like.
^This is why I've started not watching the broadcasts and waiting till they get on youtube and then I view the programs with the least amount of commentating (or commentating in a language I can't understand). Did they say what competitions she's done it at, because I've seen pictures (quick google search) of her on the podium for all her events where she medaled as a senior with the exception of CoC?
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2008
You devil!
I just watched the program again so we can discuss it. I don't find it to be a good program, but it does have a few nice attempts I suppose. The jumps are spread out well (except for back-to-back Lutzes) and the program is allowed to breathe at the start. Let's use this video as a reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9G33oqnr1yY
The transitions in the program are overdone. I hate the hop going into the 3Flip+3Toe attempt. Why ruin the sheer power and clarity of line going into this element? There's nothing in the music that calls for it. The hop after her 3Loop is a very half-assed movement that again ruins the line and impact felt after the jump.
In her first spin, the upright catch-foot camel position is useless and should be removed. All it does is remove the somewhat positive impact of her donut position. If judges were scoring accurately then it should be a 0 GOE. If she just did a Level 3 (ending the spin after the donut) and added in one arm movement to reflect the drum beat in there, then it would be +1 GOE worthy, which would actually be worth slightly more points technically and improves the program on top of it. In her second spin, that attempted upside-down camel position with a change of edge is a complete disgrace. Very, very ugly. The sit spin position is weak too. This element needs to be reworked to find something suitable for her skillset. She should probably attempt "just" a Level 3 and focus on GOE and impact of the actual movement. Cut out that change of edge and work on making the upside-down position good and getting into a better sit position afterward.
Heading into the second half of the program, the character of the music is lost. At 2:20 she puts her arms behind her back, but the full clause of that movement is not taken to its conclusion. She quickly removes them and seems to lose any sense of character and then she does a hop at 2:29, which serves no purpose at all. A more emotional throughline needs to be kept as she goes into that 3Lutz+2Toe+3Loop. She does a step before the jump and that's plenty. We don't extra extraneous movement leading there. After this jump she starts to build up speed again for another Lutz and I find this to be a mistake. Her step sequence should instead be starting after that Lutz combo. The music has taken on more complex qualities at this point, making it a much more suitable for some CoP footwork.
Let's allot 2:45 to 3:15 as the space for her footwork sequence. This would actually be rather perfect because the music starts becoming more forceful at 3:13, so it would transition into her building up speed for a jump. Although I must say this part is probably not a great music selection for a solo skating program. I would be looking for a different cut myself. Still, if we're forced to use this, then it should be played as a frantic race across the ice, leading into a Triple Lutz at 3:31. After that would come the 2A+2A as it is currently and then finally the 3F as her last jump.
The choreography sequence after the Flip is completely terrible right now. No real excitement or character at all. A weak half leap, a fan kick when the music has become slower and more melancholic, and then a split jump? Just awful. This sequence should be a simple, fast straight line of movement across the ice, ending with a held-out lunge at 4:13 to interpret the silence that has come after the crescendo. For her final spin she needs to cut out the attempted broken leg sit position, because it's terrible and will just waste time and put her behind the music. Again, just go for a quality Level 3 here.
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2014
Oh I'm so sorry that I didn't have the camera with me in that moment because I was going out during the warmp up.
Later she was writing down some notes so I didn't dare to disturb.
Same with Cesario. Saw her while I was going out in the terrace. I hope I didn't sound weird because I said to her, after her FS:"Congratulations. You are a very good Carmen."
But she was very kind.
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2013
Why not enjoy it while or lasts? If she loses her jumps tomorrow it won't make yesterday any less special
Why not enjoy it while or lasts? If she loses her jumps tomorrow it won't make yesterday any less special
...because I'm just not a fan yet so I have not missed anything. I want to see if you can jump after puberty and have presentation like Mao or Yuna. I'm just not as impressed that you can jump at 14-15.
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- Joined
- Oct 31, 2014
Don't worry. You're not the only one so far which can be easily checked out if you read the whole thread.
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2014
I do think Elena skated well, but I agree with you. I just remember thinking how unfair it was at worlds when Mao finished with a 76 and got deducted down to a 65 in tech for her wonderful freeskate. But, Elena finished with a 71 and received no deductions. I don't think it is irrelevant to compare because it was the most recent performance that beat Elena's score and their overall LP scores were very close (closer than I think they should have been).
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- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
I am trying hard but fail to see anything in Elena's skating apart from jumps but bad posture taking all enjoyment from them too. Sadly but it seems that we have no outstanding program this season like Caro's sp and Julia's SL last year. Rachmaninov and Elena? just so worlds apart she could skate to any music with same expression, sush a wrong choice for her. I don't like Lisa's programs (could Bolero be banned please) but she owns them and her jumps are joy to watch - just beautiful, so I hope Lisa skates clean and wins GPF.
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2005
In a word, SPEED
Thanks for sharing the experience!I saw her there. I thought she was working for CBC.
It was funny, because I saw here sitting alone and I wasn't sure if she was Wilson or not. So, I stopped and said: Sorry. Are you....and I was hesitating. She replied: I'm Tracy....Wilson I said. Yes you're her. She started laughing.
I only caught a tiny bit of CBC's broadcast (and don't have much interest in hearing more, after the feedback from others on the thread). But it seemed to be the usual Browning/Lane/Irving crew. Skate Canada was broadcast by TSN, while CBC got the rest of the events, I think.
- Joined
- May 19, 2011
Elena didn't get any deductions b/c she rotated everything and didn't get any edge calls. Mao got both in her FS which is why her TES dropped.
Also don't forget that Elena skated last, with the lead, and managed to deliver perfectly. She was the only one of the medalists who skated cleanly. Scores always soar in situations like that. Not to mention that's the 3rd time this season she's skated that program cleanly. Momentum is on Elena's and Liza T's side right now b/c they are the two who have skated very well all season.
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2014
Sory to hear that. I heard the trio from CBC during the Olympics and I thought they did a decent job. Although I do agree with you about Kurt's compliments.
