Why I Love Men's Figure Skating as it is Today

[cheerknithanson]

I know that since the IJS has been in place since like 10 years ago, according to some people, there has been less freedom and more technical requirements to the SP and FP. And some people might think that the quality of mens programs might have gone down because of that.

I would like to contradict what people think. I love men's figure skating just the way it is.

My reason for that is that they're pushing technical boundaries and they have to work even harder to gain more points. I value hard work and reward of hard work. The point values from the IJS makes it easier in a way to tell why someone scored better than someone else.

It's hard to put a clean program with all these technical skills. 8 jumps, 3 spins, 1 step sequence, and 1 choreographic sequence. That's a lot. And has to be done in 4:30 +/- 10 seconds. That's a real workout. But that's why people have to practice.

The men's discipline is my favorite discipline out of the four for figure skating because of all the technical boundaries.

There are mens skaters pushing boundaries now. Two quads in a short program and/or three quads in a free program. That's a real feat. Plus lots of skaters trying to get level 4 step sequences and spins. Packing big jumps in. I love when people push boundaries.

I understand that a lot of fans miss the days when the 6.0 system was in place. But this is now. 2014. We have to accept change. I love the IJS mostly because I like counting and calculating. But also it makes sense on why a skater did better. No I don't believe in any rumor that the system is rigged.

 

[TMC]

I agree with you. Programs are way more intricate and exciting now.

 

[silverfoxes]

For the most part, I agree. I don't think IJS is perfect - I wish there was more flexibility to accommodate different styles, and that the stupid Zayak rule for combos would be changed, at a minimum. But I doubt there will ever be a system in place that could please everybody.

Men's skating is so unpredictable that it can really feel like a rollercoaster. Some prefer the ladies or ice dance because they are less "splatty," but I like men and pairs better because of that risk and excitement that comes with the harder elements. But different strokes for different folks, as they say.

 

[cheerknithanson]

Also I grew up in the late 90's-2000's-early 2010's. I was born in 1995. So of course I was young when the IJS came about. And most of the legends have finished competing by the time I finished elementary school.

Men's is unpredictable. Like I did NOT expect Machida to pretty much...bomb...his FP this past weekend.

Higher risks can come with higher rewards. Though sometimes not.

I'm sure there are ways for a men's skater can bring his own "flare" to his SP or FP within the rules. Like Jason Brown brings his personality to the ice which makes him SO enjoyable to watch. They have to figure out incorporation of their styles within the programs.

I think maybe the Zayak rule is put in place to create fairness for all skaters. Which if that's the case, I understand.

Yep. No one will ever be 100% pleased.

But the huge bright of the IJS is that there are far less ties.

 

[Meoima]

Actually I did expect all the men to bomb now and then since they have to do so many difficult elements their mental and bodied could harly keep up in form for a long time. I did expect Yuzuru to mess up his SP at CoC since that's what he did last season as well, and he might have bombed the 4S in my early prediction. I just didn't expect that terrible collision. :disapp:
And frankly I did expect Denis and Machida to do not very well because... I don't know why, maybe I did sense some dark energy from that competition I guess, just didn't think they could be that "not well at all".

 

[cheerknithanson]

Conditioning and good training can prevent wear and tear.

Not all the men are bombing.

 

[AprilS]

For the most part, I agree. I don't think IJS is perfect - I wish there was more flexibility to accommodate different styles, and that the stupid Zayak rule for combos would be changed, at a minimum. But I doubt there will ever be a system in place that could please everybody.

Men's skating is so unpredictable that it can really feel like a rollercoaster. Some prefer the ladies or ice dance because they are less "splatty," but I like men and pairs better because of that risk and excitement that comes with the harder elements. But different strokes for different folks, as they say.

 

[ks777]

I don't like it at all to be honest. The reasons I started watching, besides Midori Ito, were Spirals that go from one corner to the other side of ice rink wtih beautiful position without catch foot(for women), huge death drops, super fast well centered scratch spins, beautiful camel spins with no catch foot, gorgeous classic layback with no catch foot or bielmam(for women), super fast footwork(Kurt Browning, Yuka Sato), simple but fast and beautiful sit spins. Thoese are all gone. I used to see kids during public session trying to do spirals even though they could hardly stand with skates on. I don't see that any more. I think the current system got rid of the magic that figure skating used to have. I used to want to go skating after watching figure skating on tv but now I don't feel like going skating at all after watching. I used to do spiral in the living room while watching skating, thoese days are all gone.

 

[Mathman]

I was born in 1995.

Off topic. You were born in 1995 and you knit?

 

[Mrs. P]

Off topic. You were born in 1995 and you knit?

MM, knitting has gotten a huge resurgence as part of the DIY movement. Lots of cool, well-designed sites to promote the virtues of knitting.

I can knit, but only scarves, LOL.

 

[cheerknithanson]

Off topic. You were born in 1995 and you knit?

Yes!!! I do! All thanks to an episode of the "Big Comfy Couch" that I watched on YouTube in 2010 when one of the main characters wanted to learn how to knit. And I decided I want to as well.

 

[noskates]

I don't like what the judging system has done to men's figure skating. As I've said before, the fact that you can get points for attempting a quad but landing on your butt has done nothing for the sport in my opinion. The pushing the envelope technically but not artistically is the antithesis of what I want to see in figure skating. And most of the men ARE bombing but still winning medals. A clean program should be the goal - not a flawed program that still gets points! I'm still disgusted that Hanyu could fall five times and get a silver medal. There is no rationalization of that for me. Figure skating should be an equal combination of artistry, technical expertise and successfully clean programs. Doing ridiculously long and awkward looking spins to get points, attempting jumps you can't land but can rotate to get points just isn't what brought me to love and appreciate skating to begin with.

 

[Sandpiper]

I think there are many positives of COP: Protocols to see how exactly you scored the way you did, for further improvement. Better spins than we used to see under 6.0. More intricacy in programs, which is good up to a point.

But at the same time, there are definitely aspects of 6.0 I miss: Freedom to perform a simple spin, with no catchfoot/needless variation every time. Breathing points in the program, and movements that are held instead of rushed through. I also miss the footwork: the fast, dynamic sequence that went with the music and differed from skater to skater. While I appreciate the skating skills required for COP footwork, everyone, frankly, looks the same. All very similar content, rarely fitting to the music, and overstaying its welcome in nearly every program. (There are some step sequences from 6.0 that also need work, but at least there was more variety).

I guess I miss the feeling of, "Oh, this skater did this piece of footwork/this Biellmann/this Ina Bauer because they wanted to." Whereas now I just see someone trying to work a level, get an extra point for "transitions," and hear the points crunching in my head. Of course 6.0 skaters, too, are looking to impress the judges and get better marks, but the system allowed them to approach it in different ways.

For the men specifically, what I miss most was actually the fall penalty: The knowledge that if you went down on your most important element(s), you likely (not always) lost the gold. To use an analogy, in 6.0 skaters performed on a wire, and knew things could be over if they fell. In COP, there's a trampoline under you and you just bounce right back up. In their zeal to introduce risk, the ISU has actually made those big tricks less exciting for me.

There are still great programs and great skaters, of course. Each system has its good points and short-comings. I think it depends on which generation you grew up with, as well as your own background (coming from an arts background, COP number-crunching was unlikely to appeal to me).

 

[HanDomi]

I don't like what the judging system has done to men's figure skating. As I've said before, the fact that you can get points for attempting a quad but landing on your butt has done nothing for the sport in my opinion. The pushing the envelope technically but not artistically is the antithesis of what I want to see in figure skating. And most of the men ARE bombing but still winning medals. A clean program should be the goal - not a flawed program that still gets points! I'm still disgusted that Hanyu could fall five times and get a silver medal. There is no rationalization of that for me. Figure skating should be an equal combination of artistry, technical expertise and successfully clean programs. Doing ridiculously long and awkward looking spins to get points, attempting jumps you can't land but can rotate to get points just isn't what brought me to love and appreciate skating to begin with.

So if skater falls on easy triple means he is not able to execute triple jump ? It's so delusional to think that now skaters are falling and that was not happening 5, 10 and 20 years ago. It's clear that programs now are way more difficult than 10 and 15 years ago.



I can only imagine how many wars would be this days on forum with 6.0 system, and why my favourite should be placed higher than this and this, and why this received 6.0 and this 5.9

 

[cheerknithanson]

Please let's not fight if the IJS/CoP is unfair or fair.

I understand that a lot of users here grew up in the 6.0 era.

I get wowed at really high technical skills.

I got interested with figure skating because of the complexity of programs. Making complicated programs look easy to the eye is the whole idea.

Not everyone is bombing.

No blame should be put on anyone.

 

[Violet Bliss]

In the good old days, when a skater fell, no one ever said it was due to the 6.0 system. Now, falls and all substandard executions of elements can all be attributed to the scoring system. Or am I right in understanding that programs were skated clean and artistically under the 6.0 and falls were the rare shameful exceptions duly punished with bottom ranking?

 

[noskates]

Whoa - wait a minute. I'm not blaming the scoring system as much as I am blaming the desire to get points under the scoring system. And handomi, triples come fairly easy to most skaters. You see kids that are 10 years old doing them. A quad is a different animal. Not only do you have to have the athleticism and coordination but you almost have to have a body type. That's why skaters like Hanyu and others can pull them off (most of the time) because they weigh next to nothing and have slim, pencil-like bodies. Yes the Brian Jouberts and Patrick Chan's can land them as well but not always consistently. Skaters have been doing triples since Dick Button was a pup. I think it will be a long, long time before quads are that easy to most skaters. I DO think the penalty for falling should be more strict and outweigh the points you get for rotating but not landing.

And I'm not fighting about this - just have an opinion.

 

[Blades of Passion]

There are mens skaters pushing boundaries now. Two quads in a short program and/or three quads in a free program. That's a real feat. Plus lots of skaters trying to get level 4 step sequences and spins. Packing big jumps in. I love when people push boundaries.

We already had programs with 3 Quads many years before CoP. People would have tried 2 Quads in the SP during 6.0 if it was allowed. That has nothing to do with CoP whatsoever.

The boundaries are only being pushed in certain regards. "Level 4 spins" doesn't really mean anything. Nobody these days can do a scratch spin or a basic camel spin or layback spin as well as before. Instead, people can do contortionist positions. Programs have more transitions and complicated footwork now. Sure, that shows a skill. It has come at the cost of real choreography, musical timing, originality, and expression. All of those transitions and turns in the footwork don't necessarily measure true blade mastery either. They are quantity. It's like seeing who can write 10 trashy airport novellas the best, rather than seeing who can write a great novel the best.

Some boundaries don't need to be pushed. Like how many times you can abuse your children before child services steps in. Figure skating is being abused. The authorities need to make it stop.

 

[HanDomi]

Whoa - wait a minute. I'm not blaming the scoring system as much as I am blaming the desire to get points under the scoring system. And handomi, triples come fairly easy to most skaters. You see kids that are 10 years old doing them. A quad is a different animal. Not only do you have to have the athleticism and coordination but you almost have to have a body type. That's why skaters like Hanyu and others can pull them off (most of the time) because they weigh next to nothing and have slim, pencil-like bodies. Yes the Brian Jouberts and Patrick Chan's can land them as well but not always consistently. Skaters have been doing triples since Dick Button was a pup. I think it will be a long, long time before quads are that easy to most skaters. I DO think the penalty for falling should be more strict and outweigh the points you get for rotating but not landing.

And I'm not fighting about this - just have an opinion.

Then how can you explain me what happened to Denis Ten and Florent Amodio at TEB after landing great quads, they just messed all triples. Well, can anyone explain this ?

The truth is everything is in how skater is prepared and in head. Of course quad is very hard jump, more harder than triple, but as this examples you can land great quads, and then go down on all triples after that

 

[noskates]

Well I didn't say that every triple is landed! Florent Amodio is consistently inconsistent. Don't know what his problem is. Before Worlds last year Denis Ten has major consistency problems. I don't know what happened to him at TEB. But neither of them has anything to do with the point I was trying to make - that falls should be more harshly judged and just rotating a quad but not landing it shouldn't get such a high reward.

And I totally agree with Blades that the new scoring system and the effort to gain more points has come at the cost of choreography, timing, musical interpretation and, for me, the overall enjoyment. NOW, having said that, there are a few skaters who have managed to rise above that and I would say prior to the Olys Patrick Chan was a good example. I don't find Hanyu pleasing to watch....but he sure racks up the points as do a few of the Russian men.