Why I Love Men's Figure Skating as it is Today

[Mrs. P]

Then how can you explain me what happened to Denis Ten and Florent Amodio at TEB after landing great quads, they just messed all triples. Well, can anyone explain this ?

The truth is everything is in how skater is prepared and in head. Of course quad is very hard jump, more harder than triple, but as this examples you can land great quads, and then go down on all triples after that

I think it speaks to how difficult it is truly master a quad. It's not something you should just throw in. The quad takes so much out of you, that it's easy to screw up on easier jumps as a consequence.

Tonya Harding, for example, got the 3A at 1991 Worlds, but then popped a bunch of jumps afterward and lost the world title to Kristi Yamaguchi, who obviously had no 3A.

 

[yyyskate]

We already had programs with 3 Quads many years before CoP. People would have tried 2 Quads in the SP during 6.0 if it was allowed. That has nothing to do with CoP whatsoever.

The boundaries are only being pushed in certain regards. "Level 4 spins" doesn't really mean anything. Nobody these days can do a scratch spin or a basic camel spin or layback spin as well as before. Instead, people can do contortionist positions. Programs have more transitions and complicated footwork now. Sure, that shows a skill. It has come at the cost of real choreography, musical timing, originality, and expression. All of those transitions and turns in the footwork don't necessarily measure true blade mastery either. They are quantity. It's like seeing who can write 10 trashy airport novellas the best, rather than seeing who can write a great novel the best.

Some boundaries don't need to be pushed. Like how many times you can abuse your children before child services steps in. Figure skating is being abused. The authorities need to make it stop.

:agree:

 

[Mathman]

Or am I right in understanding that programs were skated clean and artistically under the 6.0…

This was the goal.

...and falls were the rare shameful exceptions duly punished with bottom ranking?

And falls marred the program, making it difficult for the skater to win the top prize.

 

[karne]

A quad is a different animal. Not only do you have to have the athleticism and coordination but you almost have to have a body type. That's why skaters like Hanyu and others can pull them off (most of the time) because they weigh next to nothing and have slim, pencil-like bodies.

Sorry, but this is a ludicrous statement. Yes, Hanyu is a skinny little weed. He also gasps and flops like a fish out of water at the end of his programs. But he's far from the only skater in the world landing quads. I wouldn't call Max Aaron a "slim, pencil-like" man. I wouldn't even call Plushenko or Yagudin that. Or Joubert. Or Gachinski, or Menshov, or Voronov. I wouldn't call Abbott, or Farris, or Miner, or Dornbush that either. Or even Han Yan.

 

[Dr. Jenn]

Sorry, but this is a ludicrous statement. Yes, Hanyu is a skinny little weed. He also gasps and flops like a fish out of water at the end of his programs. But he's far from the only skater in the world landing quads. I wouldn't call Max Aaron a "slim, pencil-like" man. I wouldn't even call Plushenko or Yagudin that. Or Joubert. Or Gachinski, or Menshov, or Voronov. I wouldn't call Abbott, or Farris, or Miner, or Dornbush that either. Or even Han Yan.

Exactly! Or, you know, one of the best, most consistent quad jumpers of all time, Elvis Stojko!

 

[Barb]

People missing the old era could post the best performance in her/his opinion to compare? I only remember Yagudin 2002 LP, I didnt follow much skating before that.

 

[Sandpiper]

In the good old days, when a skater fell, no one ever said it was due to the 6.0 system. Now, falls and all substandard executions of elements can all be attributed to the scoring system. Or am I right in understanding that programs were skated clean and artistically under the 6.0 and falls were the rare shameful exceptions duly punished with bottom ranking?

Of course falls happened under 6.0 as well. The difference is, if you fell, you usually lost a title because of it (unless you did other things in your skate to make up for it, like Stojko doing 4-3s when others can barely eek out a quad). It was a risk, and skaters needed to balance what they could do with what they needed to win.

 

[yyyskate]

there are master pieces under new judging system as well, it is just when it gets "abused"...

 

[cheerknithanson]

I SAID let's PLEASE not fight about the IJS/CoP.

And to NOT put blame on anyone.

Gosh.

There are skaters who are CLEAN today. I know the IJS/CoP has more strict guidelines. But I like it so it's easier to judge based of if they meet the requirements or not. Plus it pushes the men to train harder and practice their skills more to improve.

This is kind of turning into the scenarios where people say the music and TV shows of the current generation suck. Which of course is not the case. It's just due to us being nostalgic. Same with figure skating in the men's programs. I'm always mesmerized by their performances today with all the technical skill. Sure clean work is valued highly.

Why is EVERYONE contradicting me?! I didn't grow up as a fan in the 6.0 era. I was in elementary school when it switched to the IJS/CoP. I like the IJS/CoP very much. It clearly hasn't been enough of a problem in the past 10 years that the ISU decided to DRASTICALLY change it again to a brand new system.

 

[Meoima]

Exactly! Or, you know, one of the best, most consistent quad jumpers of all time, Elvis Stojko!

Stojko's quads in the old day were kinda... though

 

[Mathman]

People missing the old era could post the best performance in her/his opinion to compare? I only remember Yagudin 2002 LP, I didnt follow much skating before that.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1onggt_brian-boitano-1988-calgary-long-program_sport

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z79TMsYRnEc

 

[Barb]

I SAID let's PLEASE not fight about the IJS/CoP.

And to NOT put blame on anyone.

Gosh.

There are skaters who are CLEAN today. I know the IJS/CoP has more strict guidelines. But I like it so it's easier to judge based of if they meet the requirements or not. Plus it pushes the men to train harder and practice their skills more to improve.

This is kind of turning into the scenarios where people say the music and TV shows of the current generation suck. Which of course is not the case. It's just due to us being nostalgic. Same with figure skating in the men's programs. I'm always mesmerized by their performances today with all the technical skill. Sure clean work is valued highly.

Why is EVERYONE contradicting me?! I didn't grow up as a fan in the 6.0 era. I was in elementary school when it switched to the IJS/CoP. I like the IJS/CoP very much. It clearly hasn't been enough of a problem in the past 10 years that the ISU decided to DRASTICALLY change it again to a brand new system.

And the thing is the most of people who prefer old era are not here to defend it, they simply left, some few people are still here but obviously if we are here is because in some degree we like this.

 

[ks777]

People missing the old era could post the best performance in her/his opinion to compare? I only remember Yagudin 2002 LP, I didnt follow much skating before that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZ5qaY92LSs

 

[cheerknithanson]

Figure skating is not being abused! Don't compare stretching boundaries to abusing a child. It doesn't make sense unfortunately.

Think of it like cheerleading. You see how much the "scorpion" (Which sometimes looks like a Biellmann stretch) for cheerleading has changed to be more harder? Figure skating is doing just that! Just like...

The whole point of my thread has gone into the toilet of lost main points. I need to get the main point back before someone pulls the "flush" handle.

 

[AprilS]

Sorry, but this is a ludicrous statement. Yes, Hanyu is a skinny little weed. He also gasps and flops like a fish out of water at the end of his programs. But he's far from the only skater in the world landing quads. I wouldn't call Max Aaron a "slim, pencil-like" man. I wouldn't even call Plushenko or Yagudin that. Or Joubert. Or Gachinski, or Menshov, or Voronov. I wouldn't call Abbott, or Farris, or Miner, or Dornbush that either. Or even Han Yan.

Am I the only one who finds this comment extremely offensive? It's one thing to hate a skater's skating, style, or even fashion sense, but calling someone a "weed" based on their body type is just out of line IMO...

On this topic, however, I do have a question now, and I hope people will answer. I think it's pretty established that cheerknithansen is one of the younger folks on this thread, as well as a relatively new fan. She also says she loves men's fs as it is. I'm also one of the younger folks (20), and a new fan (was a once-in-4-years watcher until 1~2 years ago), and while I do think that the system could do with many changes, the men's discipline is my favorite by far. The thrill and anticipation of if they'll land it when they go into their big jumps, the insane entries some of them do into theirs, the complex footwork and transitions, etc, etc keep me on my toes and my heart racing! I find it exciting. Clean skates, for me, are a bonus.

So here's my question: how do the 6.0/"older"/pre-2010 fans feel about men's fs vs the IJS/"newer"/post-2010 fans? I do wonder if much of the negativity has to do with expectation. Perhaps older fans expect clean performances, because that's what won all those years ago, and that's what they grew up with? Like I stated, for me, clean performances are a bonus (a very great bonus, clean performances make me happy :yes:, but a bonus nonetheless)... and I do suspect that that's a result of only knowing the IJS and this system. What I would really like to know is, is there a trend in opinions based on demographic? Are people like me and cheerknithansen, who do love men's fs as it is, exceptions?

 

[cheerknithanson]

To everyone I offended in this thread, I'm sorry.

I'm also sorry that I acted like a 10 year old here. Because that's how I feel like I'm acting.

I know quite a number of guys prefer the 6.0 system.

BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT BUT.....

That was not the main point of my thread. The main point was to tell you guys that "I" think the men's discipline is fine now. Sure there are imperfections, but EVERYONE has imperfections. Not everyone is going to be happy. It has not turned horrible. The technical complexity wows me a lot.


I feel like I made myself look like a big fat idiot.

 

[cheerknithanson]

Am I the only one who finds this comment extremely offensive? It's one thing to hate a skater's skating, style, or even fashion sense, but calling someone a "weed" based on their body type is just out of line IMO...

On this topic, however, I do have a question now, and I hope people will answer. I think it's pretty established that cheerknithansen is one of the younger folks on this thread, as well as a relatively new fan. She also says she loves men's fs as it is. I'm also one of the younger folks (20), and a new fan (was a once-in-4-years watcher until 1~2 years ago), and while I do think that the system could do with many changes, the men's discipline is my favorite by far. The thrill and anticipation of if they'll land it when they go into their big jumps, the insane entries some of them do into theirs, the complex footwork and transitions, etc, etc keep me on my toes and my heart racing! I find it exciting. Clean skates, for me, are a bonus.

So here's my question: how do the 6.0/"older"/pre-2010 fans feel about men's fs vs the IJS/"newer"/post-2010 fans? I do wonder if much of the negativity has to do with expectation. Perhaps older fans expect clean performances, because that's what won all those years ago, and that's what they grew up with? Like I stated, for me, clean performances are a bonus (a very great bonus, clean performances make me happy :yes:, but a bonus nonetheless)... and I do suspect that that's a result of only knowing the IJS and this system. What I would really like to know is, is there a trend in opinions based on demographic? Are people like me and cheerknithansen, who do love men's fs as it is, exceptions?

Can I please be friends with you. Because I agree with everything you said minus the part where you said that the system could do with many changes.

 

[Sandpiper]

I SAID let's PLEASE not fight about the IJS/CoP.

And to NOT put blame on anyone.

Gosh.

There are skaters who are CLEAN today. I know the IJS/CoP has more strict guidelines. But I like it so it's easier to judge based of if they meet the requirements or not. Plus it pushes the men to train harder and practice their skills more to improve.

This is kind of turning into the scenarios where people say the music and TV shows of the current generation suck. Which of course is not the case. It's just due to us being nostalgic. Same with figure skating in the men's programs. I'm always mesmerized by their performances today with all the technical skill. Sure clean work is valued highly.

Why is EVERYONE contradicting me?! I didn't grow up as a fan in the 6.0 era. I was in elementary school when it switched to the IJS/CoP. I like the IJS/CoP very much. It clearly hasn't been enough of a problem in the past 10 years that the ISU decided to DRASTICALLY change it again to a brand new system.

You opened a thread on a forum about the new system. That, inevitably, means people will talk about what they like about it--and what they don't like about it. It's a discussion. Plenty of people agree with you, but you can't expect everyone to agree with you.

Stojko's quads in the old day were kinda... though

Well, they weren't pretty (I especially disliked how he hesitated before picking in for the toeloop), but he got the job done and the rotation looked good from what I can tell. He was also the first to land them in combination, and before 1998 they were adequately consistent. Pretty good example of a quad jumper without the super-thin body type, imo.

 

[AprilS]

Can I please be friends with you. Because I agree with everything you said minus the part where you said that the system could do with many changes.

Any system can always improve, some more than others. There is no such thing as a perfect way to do something IMO And yes, haha! I wish you lived in my city, I need more people my age to talk fs with! arty:

 

[Mathman]

On this topic, however, I do have a question now, and I hope people will answer. I think it's pretty established that cheerknithansen is one of the younger folks on this thread, as well as a relatively new fan. She also says she loves men's fs as it is. I'm also one of the younger folks (20), and a new fan (was a once-in-4-years watcher until 1~2 years ago), and while I do think that the system could do with many changes, the men's discipline is my favorite by far. The thrill and anticipation of if they'll land it when they go into their big jumps, the insane entries some of them do into theirs, the complex footwork and transitions, etc, etc keep me on my toes and my heart racing! I find it exciting. Clean skates, for me, are a bonus.

Maybe old people like comfort and young people like excitement.