IOC corrects record: U.S. pairs team 1964 Olympic Bronze medalists

[gsk8]

News Release:

International Olympic Committee corrects record to show U.S. pairs team Joseph-Joseph as 1964 Olympic bronze medalists

COLORADO SPRINGS, Colorado (Nov. 25, 2014) — U.S. Figure Skating has received confirmation that the International Olympic Committee has formally corrected the medal standings of the 1964 Olympic Winter Games pairs competition, officially listing the American team of Vivian Joseph and Ronald Joseph as the bronze medalists.

"An Olympic medal is the ultimate sports symbol of hard work, sacrifice and the perseverance of athletes, parents and coaches,” siblings Vivian and Ronald Joseph said in a joint statement. “We are happy the issue of our medal has finally been resolved.”

In 1966, the IOC awarded the Josephs the bronze medal after declaring that the West German pairs team of Marika Kilius and Hans-Jürgen Bäumler had violated their amateur status by signing a professional contract. With the West Germans stripped of their silver medal, all but the gold medalists moved up one placement, resulting in the following official order:
· Gold: Ludmila Belousova/Oleg Protopopov (URS)
· Silver: Debbi Wilkes/Guy Revell (CAN)
· Bronze: Vivian Joseph/Ronald Joseph (USA)

However, in 1987, the IOC declared the West German team had been “rehabilitated,” and changed its records to Soviet Union (1), West Germany (2), Canada (3). But since that time, confusion ensued because the IOC did not explain or inform the U.S. Olympic Committee, the Canadian Olympic Committee or the national federations for figure skating in the United States or Canada of the West German team’s status and its medal consequences. The issue recently was brought to light during the run-up to the 2014 Olympic Winter Games, which marked the 50[SUP]th[/SUP] anniversary of the 1964 Innsbruck Games.

After a further review by the IOC, it now recognizes and confirms one gold, two silvers and one bronze for the 1964 pairs event:
· Gold: Ludmila Belousova/Oleg Protopopov (URS)
· Silver: Marika Kilius/Hans-Jürgen Bäumler (EUA) and Debbi Wilkes/Guy Revell (CAN)
· Bronze: Vivian Joseph/Ronald Joseph (USA)

To view the IOC medals site for this event, click here.

“After more than two decades of confusion, we are pleased to see Vivian and Ronald Joseph as the rightful Olympic bronze medalists,” said David Raith, executive director, U.S. Figure Skating. “We respect the way the Josephs have handled this issue, knowing that this confusion has caused them much heartache and frustration.”

The Josephs will award the championship pairs medals at the 2015 Prudential U.S. Figure Skating Championships in Greensboro, N.C.

“We thank all involved who helped settle this matter,” the Josephs said. “We are only saddened that our parents and coach, Peter Dunfield, are not alive to share in this moment. They were the keys to our success.”

This medal correction also increases to 48 the total Olympic figure skating medals won by the United States, the most medals won by any single nation in the Olympic Winter Games.

 

[Sasha'sSpins]

Well I'm happy for the Josephs although it's bittersweet since their parents and coach are now deceased.

 

[LiamForeman]

Shows how much clout USFS has in the world of skating. They know how to get things done... Sheesh. I mean, good for the Josephs, but FIFTY YEARS after the fact????? smh

And this whole IOC and "rehabilitated" wording is bizarre. I wonder if they will deem Ben Johnson 'rehabilitated' and reaward him the gold medal. Why would they even do that in 87?

 

[Near]

Shows how much clout USFS has in the world of skating. They know how to get things done... Sheesh. I mean, good for the Josephs, but FIFTY YEARS after the fact????? smh

And this whole IOC and "rehabilitated" wording is bizarre. I wonder if they will deem Ben Johnson 'rehabilitated' and reaward him the gold medal. Why would they even do that in 87?

They've done it to other athletes in the past. For example, Jim Thorpe's two gold medals in athletics (in the Pentathlon and the Decathlon) where stripped in 1913 for profetionalism. He was only reinstated as the winner in 1982, a couple of decades after his death. In those cases much the same rules applied (there are two gold medals, a silver medal and a bronze medal awarded in those events).

In this case, according to the IOC the decision in this case was made in 1987, they are simply clarifying that the Canadian couple and the American couple did not lose a spot due to the German couple getting it's medal back.

 

[Skater Boy]

News Release:

International Olympic Committee corrects record to show U.S. pairs team Joseph-Joseph as 1964 Olympic bronze medalists

COLORADO SPRINGS, Colorado (Nov. 25, 2014) — U.S. Figure Skating has received confirmation that the International Olympic Committee has formally corrected the medal standings of the 1964 Olympic Winter Games pairs competition, officially listing the American team of Vivian Joseph and Ronald Joseph as the bronze medalists.

"An Olympic medal is the ultimate sports symbol of hard work, sacrifice and the perseverance of athletes, parents and coaches,” siblings Vivian and Ronald Joseph said in a joint statement. “We are happy the issue of our medal has finally been resolved.”

In 1966, the IOC awarded the Josephs the bronze medal after declaring that the West German pairs team of Marika Kilius and Hans-Jürgen Bäumler had violated their amateur status by signing a professional contract. With the West Germans stripped of their silver medal, all but the gold medalists moved up one placement, resulting in the following official order:
· Gold: Ludmila Belousova/Oleg Protopopov (URS)
· Silver: Debbi Wilkes/Guy Revell (CAN)
· Bronze: Vivian Joseph/Ronald Joseph (USA)

However, in 1987, the IOC declared the West German team had been “rehabilitated,” and changed its records to Soviet Union (1), West Germany (2), Canada (3). But since that time, confusion ensued because the IOC did not explain or inform the U.S. Olympic Committee, the Canadian Olympic Committee or the national federations for figure skating in the United States or Canada of the West German team’s status and its medal consequences. The issue recently was brought to light during the run-up to the 2014 Olympic Winter Games, which marked the 50[SUP]th[/SUP] anniversary of the 1964 Innsbruck Games.

After a further review by the IOC, it now recognizes and confirms one gold, two silvers and one bronze for the 1964 pairs event:
· Gold: Ludmila Belousova/Oleg Protopopov (URS)
· Silver: Marika Kilius/Hans-Jürgen Bäumler (EUA) and Debbi Wilkes/Guy Revell (CAN)
· Bronze: Vivian Joseph/Ronald Joseph (USA)

To view the IOC medals site for this event, click here.

“After more than two decades of confusion, we are pleased to see Vivian and Ronald Joseph as the rightful Olympic bronze medalists,” said David Raith, executive director, U.S. Figure Skating. “We respect the way the Josephs have handled this issue, knowing that this confusion has caused them much heartache and frustration.”

The Josephs will award the championship pairs medals at the 2015 Prudential U.S. Figure Skating Championships in Greensboro, N.C.

“We thank all involved who helped settle this matter,” the Josephs said. “We are only saddened that our parents and coach, Peter Dunfield, are not alive to share in this moment. They were the keys to our success.”

This medal correction also increases to 48 the total Olympic figure skating medals won by the United States, the most medals won by any single nation in the Olympic Winter Games.

Ah that is nice but usually if there are two silver the next team is fourth. Even in 2002 two gold and a bronze. Oh well whatever.

 

[jenm]

I know this is a sensitive subject but I'm hoping they will also do something about Sochi and give another gold to Yuna. Not strip Adelina of her gold medal but at least give another one for Yuna and then a silver for Caro maybe. just hoping.

 

[LiamForeman]

Ah that is nice but usually if there are two silver the next team is fourth. Even in 2002 two gold and a bronze. Oh well whatever.

Exactly, what an empty move, since they are clearly fourth. Rules are rules and if the West Germans were d/q'd for not following them, then tough. Ben Johnson didn't follow the rules and was stripped of his medal, so now IOC could determine that he is 'rehabilitated' now and reinstate his medal??? Strange.

 

[Mathman]

We have a different view nowadays about the virtues of amateurism and the crime of playing sports for money. Native American athlete Jim Thorp won the decathlon and pentahlon at the 1912 Olympics, but his medals were taken away because he had once got paid for playing baseball. Thirty years after his death, duplicate gold medals were given to his children.

 

[Skater Boy]

The idea of what is amateur or "competitive" or eligible athlete certainly has changed. When Michelle Kwan was competing she was like the six or seven million dollar amateur! Some of the American football players or basketball players in college live lifestyles that would amaze you - though it might be a bit creative how they get their money/wealth to follow college/university rules.

As for the idea of giving Yuna a gold in this case while I love Yuna I would say if you give her a gold you should also give one to Chan, Stolba and Klimov and Virtue and Moir. They just didn't have as vocal fans or the international media sensation. Interestingly very strong arguments could be made for all three to deserve gold. Chan didn't fall and arguably could have scored higher compared to Hanyu on pcs. S and K skated two clean and technically difficult programs unlike V andT. V and M were arguably underscored in both skates especially the free and should have had higher pcs in both programs compared to D and W. Giving Yuna a gold would open up Pandora's box especially at this olympics. And while we are changing medals maybe whoever was fourth at the 2006 should get a bronze since arguably the Zhang's should have lost more points for taking such a long "break" after their nasty fall on the quads; Kerrigan a gold for 94; Orser a gold for 84, Manley a gold for 88 and Ito a bronze for 88, Natalia and ARtur gold in 94 pairs tonnes of good arguments for another medal to be awarded.

 

[Matt K]

Ah that is nice but usually if there are two silver the next team is fourth. Even in 2002 two gold and a bronze. Oh well whatever.

Exactly. If there are two silvers, the next team is fourth. at how Joseph/Joseph are 3rd and not 4th considering there are 3 couples occupying the gold and silver medal positions.

Also, Joseph/Joseph got to keep their medals. They were not stripped of them. Also, is there any statement by the Canadian federation regarding Debbi Wilkes/Guy Revell "upgraded" silver medal placement status? So perhaps without the insistence of USFSA, this whole process would never have taken place? I fail to see how this shows lack of clout within the USFSA. The opposite, I think.

As for the idea of giving Yuna a gold in this case while I love Yuna I would say if you give her a gold you should also give one to Chan, Stolba and Klimov and Virtue and Moir. They just didn't have as vocal fans or the international media sensation. Interestingly very strong arguments could be made for all three to deserve gold. Chan didn't fall and arguably could have scored higher compared to Hanyu on pcs. S and K skated two clean and technically difficult programs unlike V andT. V and M were arguably underscored in both skates especially the free and should have had higher pcs in both programs compared to D and W. Giving Yuna a gold would open up Pandora's box especially at this olympics. And while we are changing medals maybe whoever was fourth at the 2006 should get a bronze since arguably the Zhang's should have lost more points for taking such a long "break" after their nasty fall on the quads; Kerrigan a gold for 94; Orser a gold for 84, Manley a gold for 88 and Ito a bronze for 88, Natalia and ARtur gold in 94 pairs tonnes of good arguments for another medal to be awarded.

IMO the ice dance couple who won in Sochi has degraded the standards of ice dancing with their win and the whole "let's see if there will be the first ever gold medal for USA in dance", "making US history" nauseatic drivel just never went away from 2013 all the way to 2014. Add to that their coach's political mouth as well as repeatedly telling everyone of V/M's "moral victory" after 2013 saying how brave she is to endure all the injuries that have impacted her and continues to do so, and such. If I were a judge, and did not have any preconceptions of any of the skaters, but am told and later reminded that one of the skaters I am judging has had a history of injuries and 4 surgeries in 2 years, and to even be able to skate at that level is a moral victory, would I be swayed to look at this skater in a different light whether I like it or not? Would I be swayed to doubt her ability on the ice? Would I look at every move, every edge from that of a skeptical mindset? Very, very likely, whether I choose to or not. It is the nature of psychology, whether one likes it or not. Way, way worse than "blue eyes" comments IMO. I fail to see how this denigrates Shibutanis directly, but whatever. IMO, D/W rode on V/M's coattails to get to their Olympic silver medal in 2010. What also helped was that all the major contenders (all of them) were injuried/pregnant/MIA during major competitions which helped them greatly. I say we should also give Denkova/Staviski a silver medal from 2006 Olympics, and B/A can share bronze with the Ukrainian pair.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I know this is a sensitive subject but I'm hoping they will also do something about Sochi and give another gold to Yuna. Not strip Adelina of her gold medal but at least give another one for Yuna and then a silver for Caro maybe. just hoping.

She already has an OGM. Who cares if she gets a 2nd one (save for those select few who still haven't gotten over the fact that Adelina won and that result will not change). There was no judging controversy such as in SLC 2002 Pairs that would merit a "tie". And if anything, Kostner should have won the OGM in Sochi with 7 triples and a clean skate to Kim's 6-triple clean skate.

Back to the OT, this reinstated rule is weird. It's not like the West Germans were caught doping or something that enhanced their ability to come 3rd... they performed in an ice show. On the day, they were still the 3rd best team, even if they technically weren't supposed to have been able to compete.

 

[jenm]

She already has an OGM. Who cares if she gets a 2nd one (save for those select few who still haven't gotten over the fact that Adelina won and that result will not change). There was no judging controversy such as in SLC 2002 Pairs that would merit a "tie". And if anything, Kostner should have won the OGM in Sochi with 7 triples and a clean skate to Kim's 6-triple clean skate.

Well that is your opinion. Same thing as my comment is my opinion. There is literally several threads in this forum leading to the same conclusion: that the results were not accurate due to either corruption or incompetency and the placements should have been different. Let's not look at her first gold medal. If she earned the second one then why can't she receive another just because she already has one? That reasoning doesn't make any sense. Also, what's wrong with hoping? Not saying it will happen but people are hoping.

 

[iluvtodd]

Good for them! Better late than never!