State of US Ladies in skating III: 2014-15 Season

[Sjs5572]

That would be a great combo if she can rotate it, because it would allow her to get to 7 triples without a real 3/3.

However, she would have to do the Lutz. I wonder if she has been working on doing the Lutz with just a "!" notation. Otherwise, she's still better off doing the axel, I believe.

 

[Alba]

I don't see anything wrong with the word "packaging."

To me packaging refers to (a) the skater's appearance on the ice, (b) music, (c) costuming, and (d) choreography. All of those things are combined together into a "package." Essentially, it's how the skater is presented on the ice to the judges/audience.

That's my perception of the word anyway...

I totally agree.

Back to the GPF - MAYBE Wagner can get 4th if she's lucky...but I think 3rd would be an accomplishment even for Gold if she was able to go...let alone Wagner, who isn't quite on the same level (any more).

Well, Gold could be in any podium when clean. She has the means to do that, TES+PCS.

 

[mskater93]

However, she would have to do the Lutz. I wonder if she has been working on doing the Lutz with just a "!" notation. Otherwise, she's still better off doing the axel, I believe.

Look at protocols from TEB - she did...

 

[R.D.]

GPF UPDATE

After the SP - Wagner last (6th) as expected, but scores are surprisingly close. 3 points out of podium contention, 7.5 points out of 1st...

 

[Jammers]

Ashley is lucky to have broken 60 points with that skate.

 

[ice coverage]

Some Wagner comments after her GPF SP:

(on short program) “The quality of the program was really good. The only thing it was really lacking was the triple-triple combination. I was able to get level 4s on all my spins, level 3 on my step sequence. The program as a whole was solid but it just goes to show that now with these younger girls, you need a triple-triple jump to be competitive. It’s something I’ll need tomorrow.”

(on free skate tomorrow) “I need to get the triple-triple combination. It’s tough because there is so much pressure on that jump. Everybody’s talking about it, a jump that has to be in the program. Tomorrow I have to have that combination and I have to skate strong and solid like I know I can. I know I have the second mark but that’s only going to take me so far at the Grand Prix Final.”

(on triple-triple combination) “The entrance (to the first jump) that I have really helps the combination when it’s correct. When I get nervous and pitch forward a bit, it makes it hard to get the triple toe off. I need to figure out how to compete with that jump. The entrance has to be very precise and I chose that take-off so I’m aware of the risks but if I get nervous and I hold back, it makes it tough to get the triple toe off. I have no reason to hold back, especially at the Grand Prix Final. It’s a privilege to be here and this is icing on the cake of a good Grand Prix season.”

http://skatingmagazineblog.com/2014/12/11/day-1-from-grand-prix-final/​

~~~~~~~~~~~~

ETA:

LOL, a humorous quote from icenetwork's super-fluffy piece re Wagner's holiday plans (post-GPF) and traditions (emphasis added):

http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2014/12/11/103444916/wagner-heads-home-to-dc-area-for-the-holidays (Dec 11)​

Icenetwork: Your Christmas sweater -- ugly or fabulous?

Wagner: I only own fabulous sweaters! I'm only kidding. For me, it has to be ridiculously soft and comfortable to make it into my closet. As for the ugly sweater, I think the Olympic Opening Ceremony sweater takes the cake, so I'm set!​

I appreciate her candor , although I myself liked the opening ceremony sweater.​

 

[tulosai]

GPF UPDATE

After the SP - Wagner last (6th) as expected, but scores are surprisingly close. 3 points out of podium contention, 7.5 points out of 1st...

I actually think she will end up 5th if she manages not to stand up and not UR too many jumps. The judges are going to give her MUCH higher PCS than Hongo... as they already did today. If she'd landed the 3F better, she'd definitely be ahead of BOTH Hongo and Pogorylia

 

[Sjs5572]

Look at protocols from TEB - she did...

You're right. That's great! I am pulling for a 7.triple program on.Saturday.

 

[Alba]

Some Wagner comments after her GPF SP:

(on short program) “The quality of the program was really good. The only thing it was really lacking was the triple-triple combination. I was able to get level 4s on all my spins, level 3 on my step sequence. The program as a whole was solid but it just goes to show that now with these younger girls, you need a triple-triple jump to be competitive. It’s something I’ll need tomorrow.”​

Oh god, not again. Is she saying that before she didn't need a 3-3 jump? ​

 

[tulosai]

Oh god, not again. Is she saying that before she didn't need a 3-3 jump?

I mean in a sense she didn't. She won 4CC's without one (beating Asada) and was 4th in the world a few times without one. She medaled at the GPF the past 2 years without a fully rotated one. But back then she was the USFSA #1 and yes, the triple triple was less important at least for her.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Why can't she just do 3t-3t and be done with it? Liza has been on a tear with that combo.

 

[Alba]

I mean in a sense she didn't. She won 4CC's without one (beating Asada) and was 4th in the world a few times without one. She medaled at the GPF the past 2 years without a fully rotated one. But back then she was the USFSA #1 and yes, the triple triple was less important at least for her.

Because the other girls did bad maybe in a certain competitions. I don't remember now the 4cc you are referring too, but you needed the 3 combo to be competitive. It's not something new who came into force this year, or the season before. Yuna always had it, other girls too.

 

[tulosai]

Because the other girls did bad maybe in a certain competitions. I don't remember now the 4cc you are referring too, but you needed the 3 combo to be competitive. It's not something new who came into force this year, or the season before. Yuna always had it, other girls too.

Again, I think being USFSA #1 really helped her not need it as much. Of course mistakes made by others are useful, and a big part of her problem too is that now she is a person who is making mistakes, not benefitting from others making them. But I guess like Jason Brown and the quad, in a way, you only need it if you need it. You can't win a clean competition without it, but if others make errors, sure.

I see your point too and am not actually sure we disagree, but I think it's true that until this year and the last half of this year, for whatever reason, she didn't have to deal with NEEDING a triple triple as much as she does now.

 

[Mrs. P]

Because the other girls did bad maybe in a certain competitions. I don't remember now the 4cc you are referring too, but you needed the 3 combo to be competitive. It's not something new who came into force this year, or the season before. Yuna always had it, other girls too.

But that's why Yuna was so relatively dominant in the 2006-2010 era. Back then, relatively few were doing 3Z-3T and 3F-3T she did. Not only that she was consistent on it. That's what made her different from other skaters. Others attempted 3Z-3T/3F-3T but were not consistenet on it like Yuna was.

Back in 2012, when Ashley won 4CC, only one skater had a ratified 3-3 in the FS (Kexin Zhang). When she won silver at GPF later that year, the only skater who had ratified 3-3 was Kexin again and Leonova. Other girls did 2A-3T, and Ashley did too (though it was UR).

In 2012 GPF, only Liza had a ratified 3-3 (3Z-3T) in the FS. In the SP, only Akiko Suzuki did a ratified 3-3 (3T-3T).

Now we see that in this era that 3-3s are not only done but are relatively consistent from these ladies. Ashley is acknowledging that.

 

[Alba]

Again, I think being USFSA #1 really helped her not need it as much. Of course mistakes made by others are useful, and a big part of her problem too is that now she is a person who is making mistakes, not benefitting from others making them. But I guess like Jason Brown and the quad, in a way, you only need it if you need it. You can't win a clean competition without it, but if others make errors, sure.

I see your point too and am not actually sure we disagree, but I think it's true that until this year and the last half of this year, for whatever reason, she didn't have to deal with NEEDING a triple triple as much as she does now.

Yes, I think the point you make about her being the person who is making mistakes, not benefitting from others making them, is about right.

Mrs. P: I agree with you, but the post 2010 era is a bit different though.
Not so many girls doing it but the top needed. Kostner as well had the combo.

By the way, what about Ando? Didn't she had a 3 combo as well?

 

[Krunchii]

Yes, I think the point you make about her being the person who is making mistakes, not benefitting from others making them, is about right.

Mrs. P: I agree with you, but the post 2010 era is a bit different though.
Not so many girls doing it but the top needed. Kostner as well had the combo.

By the way, what about Ando? Didn't she had a 3 combo as well?

Ando did the 3Lz-3Lo for a while but I think it got marked as underrotated a few times, I never followed her closely but I think during the Olympic SP in 2010 it was <
But let's not forget, Joannie Rochette won a bronze without a 3-3 though she had a good flip and lutz edge, the 3-3 wasn't as important back then, also most of 2010-2014, there was kind of a lull in women's figure skating (Yuna not coming back, Mao reworking her jumps etc) but it picked back up towards the end of it

 

[yyyskate]

^ something I dont quite understand and wanna ask, why suddenly 3-3 became a staple for ladies skating. like everyone is doing it nowadays, even second tier skaters, new comers and juniors. why is that? isn't because the training technique improved?

 

[Alba]

Ando did the 3Lz-3Lo for a while but I think it got marked as underrotated a few times, I never followed her closely but I think during the Olympic SP in 2010 it was <
But let's not forget, Joannie Rochette won a bronze without a 3-3 though she had a good flip and lutz edge, the 3-3 wasn't as important back then, also most of 2010-2014, there was kind of a lull in women's figure skating (Yuna not coming back, Mao reworking her jumps etc) but it picked back up towards the end of it

It was like in 2013-2014 seaons, right?

yes, Miki did have a problem with Ur.

 

[Krunchii]

^Yeah it was 2013-2014ish

^ something I dont quite understand and wanna ask, why suddenly 3-3 became a staple for ladies skating. like everyone is doing it nowadays, even second tier skaters, new comers and juniors. why is that? isn't because the training technique improved?

Combination of reasons I guess, Yuna came back, Mao was getting better consistency, in Russia there was a huge amount of competition so the girls there obviously had to hone their 3-3s to even get on the international stage to begin with, I guess if younger girls such as Eliza and Adelina had their 3-3s, it puts pressure on older skaters such as Kostner and Akiko too, I guess now newer skaters even attempt it because it's becoming like the quad for men, you're not really seen as a threat if you don't have one

 

[Mathman]

Maybe a little off topic, but looking to the state of U.S. ladies in the future…I think this is the first time ever that no U.S. junior lady made the Grand Prix Final. (Or junior man, for that matter. Or junior ice dance team. But there is always our stronghold, pairs. :yes: )