State of US Ladies in skating III: 2014-15 Season

[amc987]

^^ Yeah, I mean we had some promising skaters who never really panned out long-term the way USFSA thought/ hoped they would. Meissner had 2 good seasons but got hammered for URs under the new system, Flatt was consistent but not spectacular, Nagasu was spectacular but woefully inconsistent and a serial underrotator, Czisny wasn't technically proficient enough/ wasn't the best under pressure/ got injured just after she hit her peak level, etc.

You'd think that, between Ashley and Gracie, someone will manage to get back to the World podium in the next couple of years.

 

[Sandpiper]

You'd think that, between Ashley and Gracie, someone will manage to get back to the World podium in the next couple of years.

Hey, Ashley medalled in GPF, which was arguably even more competitive than Worlds. Maybe she'll pull another crazy stunt.

 

[Tutto]

We have been rebuilding since Sasha stopped skating.

True. And yet the reputation of a loser and underachiever seems to be stuck with Sasha forever despite a 4th place finish in SLC at first international appearance, GPF gold + silver, 2 Worlds silvers + bronze, 8 medals on senior GP circuit - 5 of those GOLD plus she was always on National podium with exception of 2010 when she tried to come back after not competing for a few seasons. She never had a meltdown just a mistake or two in lp, and yet Julia L. had hardly finished her lp at Nationals as she was compared to Sasha of all people (refer to another thread) ???
Back to topic, I'd put my bet on Hicks coming in third at Nationals, I don't particularly like her skating but she seems to have determination and the jumps. We will see...

 

[jagragold]

I'm sure Gracie will be on the Worlds podium this year.

 

[loiza]

I'm sure Gracie will be on the Worlds podium this year.

:thumbsup:

 

[Layfan]

We have been rebuilding since Sasha stopped skating.

At least we have the three spots back! It's nice to have Gracie who has the goods to be in the medal mix and Ashley who has shown grit and staying power and determination more than any other skater out there. Honestly, I enjoy watching both of them more than the Russian ladies, for now, and it's not because they are Americans. I just like their styles better. I think Ashley has a very memorable LP this year.

 

[Tutto]

At least we have the three spots back! It's nice to have Gracie who has the goods to be in the medal mix and Ashley who has shown grit and staying power and determination more than any other skater out there. Honestly, I enjoy watching both of them more than the Russian ladies, for now, and it's not because they are Americans. I just like their styles better. I think Ashley has a very memorable LP this year.

I agree. Russian ladies is still a work in progress (with exception of Lisa's jumps - perfection). Missing Carolina, Yuna & Mao terribly. Was not Ashley's fan but becoming one fast. Lovely presentation - a proof of that 'less is more' as compared to frantic rushed skating by Elena, how she (Elena) is awarded PCSs is beyond my understanding

 

[loiza]

I agree. Russian ladies is still a work in progress (with exception of Lisa's jumps - perfection). Missing Carolina, Yuna & Mao terribly. Was not Ashley's fan but becoming one fast. Lovely presentation - a proof of that 'less is more' as compared to frantic rushed skating by Elena, how she (Elena) is awarded PCSs is beyond my understanding

I agree. I'll never understand the PCSs!

 

[R.D.]

Re. Cohen being seen as underachieving- once again it's all relative. She was competing in the age of Kwan, Hughes et al - those two won the titles Cohen did not win, and Kwan was also racking up a historic amount of titles/medals...of course that didn't help the perception of Cohen. Also I think most American skate fans took MK and Hughes' consistency for granted and expected Cohen to be more like that - and given her talent, perhaps even more so. I was watching a few old clips some time ago and even the commentators were quite hard on her when she messed up. I think there was a sense of frustration among fans that they were deprived the "perfect" FS from her, particularly considering the length of her career. The other top Americans (and internationals) had the free skate of a lifetime at least once...I think people were waiting for that skate from Cohen which never really came.

Of course nowadays a Cohen-caliber skater would be welcomed with open arms after a decade plus of mediocrity on the world scene. It is too soon to say whether Gold could be that skater, yet we have some fans giving up on her already. (Isn't this her 3rd season? How long did it take Cohen to get on the world podium?) Pretty safe to say Wagner won't be that skater, but that's not to say she can't pull off some miracle at the very end of her career.

 

[Tutto]

Of course nowadays a Cohen-caliber skater would be welcomed with open arms after a decade plus of mediocrity on the world scene. It is too soon to say whether Gold could be that skater, yet we have some fans giving up on her already. (Isn't this her 3rd season? How long did it take Cohen to get on the world podium?) Pretty safe to say Wagner won't be that skater, but that's not to say she can't pull off some miracle at the very end of her career.[/QUOTE]

Sasha got her first World medal at the third attempt after being 4th in 2002 & 2003, so Gracie still has time, the problem is insane competition from Russians. So much in sport (and life generally) depends on luck. Sasha was quite unlucky a few times - in 2004 she probably would have become world champion if it was not for Arakawa suddenly coming out with a skate of her life, same happened next year in Moscow where Sasha actually didn't fall in the lp just had a couple of wobbly landings and with a score of 130 she sure should have taken gold but there was Irina with her skate of her life. I am not seeking excuses for Sasha she did lack mental toughness or focus or discipline - who can really say, but her reputation is not fair. Now Gracie got injured just when she could have shined at GPF - talk about luck?

 

[TwinnerA]

I remember it seemed like every year Peggy Fleming would put her money on Sasha to win at Nationals and then she would have 1 or 2 wonky landings or 1 fall and then Michelle would be Michelle and skate nearly perfectly and win gold again. It took Michelle having "retire" before Sasha could even win at Nationals. Nevertheless, Sasha had a pretty darn good career and should be proud.

As for Gracie, I am not giving up on her any time soon. I can't seeing as I just jumped on her bandwagon at Nationals last year!

 

[R.D.]

I agree about luck - often times it's not just how you do but how you do in relation to others at the event that night that matters. You could do your absolute best, but if other skaters deliver as well (or maybe the judging isn't so good) then it won't be enough to achieve the result you want. Or if you are off your game, and others are too, you don't take as big of a hit in the standings.

Gold had a good chance at 2014 worlds but threw it away. Luck was in her favor but she couldn't capitalize.
Wagner has had a mixture of blown chances (2012) and hard luck (2014). Frankly, blown chances and hard luck has basically been the story of US ladies skating after Kwan and Cohen. Nagasu could have been a world medalist in 2010 but blew it. Flatt was consistent but had the luck of competing in one of the deepest fields in memory. And Czisny- well, we won't go there.

 

[Jammers]

You would think someone like Gracie would have the skate of her life at Worlds just once and if she did she not only would make the podium but perhaps win the whole damn thing. She did it at Nationals in 2013 but the pressure was off that's the big problem with her right now when she has a chance to win or make the podium at big events she skates scared and makes silly mistakes. Some skates know how to bring it when it counts and some never learn or just can't handle the pressure and Gracie might be one of those that can't handle the nerves. To bad because she's the one US lady since Sasha who could win without needing help from other skaters.

 

[Sandpiper]

Sasha was quite unlucky a few times - in 2004 she probably would have become world champion if it was not for Arakawa suddenly coming out with a skate of her life...

It's all about perspective. We could also argue that Sasha was lucky to get silver, since she was only third in the 2004 Worlds LP--if Michelle hadn't had a horrific QR or hadn't gotten completely nailed by the judges in the SP, she would've also beaten Sasha. And Sasha had a great opportunity to win 2006 Worlds, with both Irina and Shizuka not there, but she messed up in the LP and ended up behind Meissner and Suguri. Or, most obviously, the 2006 Olympics, where the winning LP was far from an unbeatable one.

While I agree that Sasha was a great skater, and certainly as bad a headcase as many label her to be... she did squander many opportunities on her own. She had times of bad luck (2005 Worlds, as you mentioned, is the obvious example), but so do many athletes, from all countries.

 

[noskates]

I was never on the Sasha bandwagon. To me she's like I perceive Jeremy Abbott. ALL that talent, all that charisma, all the presentation and then.......................as Sandpiper so adequately put it - squandered opportunities. So forgive me but those are the things I remember about her. Always biting my nails and wondering if this would be the time she skated clean. I never enjoyed watching her just like I don't enjoy watching Jeremey (or Cszny for that matter) because you never could trust that they would deliver. For all of them it wasn't an occasional screw-up, it was almost chronic. I even saw a few skating shows with Sasha and she didn't skate clean. Eh!

I think Nats is going to be a battle between a ferociously determined Ashley and a talented Gracie! I'm putting my money on Gracie!

 

[R.D.]

I don't think Cohen belongs in the same category as Abbott and Czisny, but that's just me. While Cohen did squander a couple of good opportunities (2006 worlds comes to mind), it's not like she was spectacular at one comp only to completely melt down at the next. She was consistently on the podium, not 2nd, then 16th, then 3rd, then 20th, etc. She wasn't unreliable in the sense of the word - you knew she was going to make a mistake or two in the FS.

 

[Tutto]

I don't think Cohen belongs in the same category as Abbott and Czisny, but that's just me. While Cohen did squander a couple of good opportunities (2006 worlds comes to mind), it's not like she was spectacular at one comp only to completely melt down at the next. She was consistently on the podium, not 2nd, then 16th, then 3rd, then 20th, etc. She wasn't unreliable in the sense of the word - you knew she was going to make a mistake or two in the FS.

I agree, 2006 was indeed the year of missed opportunities for Sasha, even as a fan I have to admit it, everything was in her favour at Oly and Worlds but I am sure nobody has more regrets than Sasha herself about it! It could have been worse though- after 2 mistakes in lp she could have gone a la Carolina and miss the Oly podium altogether.

On different topic, a question: if Hicks skates clean and Polina makes only a couple of mistakes who has a better chance for bronze?

 

[dorispulaski]

It depends on what the mistakes are by Polina.

A clean Courtney is formidable. She has a correct edge lutz, a correct edge flip, no tendency to underrotate, and an SP that suits her this year. I would definitely expect her to be in the mix for the bronze, if she skates clean programs. I would not be surprised to see her beat Polina this year.

 

[NYscorp6]

I don't think Cohen belongs in the same category as Abbott and Czisny, but that's just me. While Cohen did squander a couple of good opportunities (2006 worlds comes to mind), it's not like she was spectacular at one comp only to completely melt down at the next. She was consistently on the podium, not 2nd, then 16th, then 3rd, then 20th, etc. She wasn't unreliable in the sense of the word - you knew she was going to make a mistake or two in the FS.

Thank you, well said. Eight years later we are still waiting for the next US lady "star". I'm hoping Gracie will run away with it.

 

[Tutto]

It depends on what the mistakes are by Polina.

A clean Courtney is formidable. She has a correct edge lutz, a correct edge flip, no tendency to underrotate, and an SP that suits her this year. I would definitely expect her to be in the mix for the bronze, if she skates clean programs. I would not be surprised to see her beat Polina this year.

I have a same feeling though if Polina skates relatively clean with minor mistakes her PCS will probably be higher than Courtney's. Isn't interesting that both have Russian roots - Polina's mother is Russian and Courtney's three grandparents are Russian?