State of the U.S. Men's Figure Skating for 2014-15

[StitchMonkey]

I don't think the 3Z-1Lo-3s is going anywhere; his second lutz has to be in a combination for it to count.

Maybe they misunderstood Kori, and he's just moving the first 2A to the second half? I can't understand why he would add a 2A+2A sequence, because it would have to replace one of his other combos -- all of which earn more points.

Im also wondering if something got mixed up because you are right, it does not make sense. That is why I was wondering if they were trying to get rid of the 1/2loop+3S combo. That really was the only thing I could think of that would help to explain this new combo that, like you said, is not worth that much.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Seeing conversations like this has me thinking the Zayak rule needs to be amended. Figure skating should be fun to watch and even fun to do. It's turning into string theory with multiple dimensions that exist more in the mind than in physical reality

 

[StitchMonkey]

Seeing conversations like this has me thinking the Zayak rule needs to be amended. Figure skating should be fun to watch and even fun to do. It's turning into string theory with multiple dimensions that exist more in the mind than in physical reality

Sadly any amendment would likely make it more confusing. Ive been looking at old proticals guessing at layouts, had one that i thought was a maybe, then notice a Zayak. Then I think of something weirder, and go have a shot so I don't get lost in the math . . . again.

 

[Jammers]

Excuse me, but there is an American man with a quad.

If you mean Max he simply has to many weaknesses to challenge the top guys internationally.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Sadly any amendment would likely make it more confusing. Ive been looking at old proticals guessing at layouts, had one that i thought was a maybe, then notice a Zayak. Then I think of something weirder, and go have a shot so I don't get lost in the math . . . again.

Is de-mending a word?

 

[StitchMonkey]

Is de-mending a word?

You can repeal an amendment. But that could get scary. I don't want to see what skater can land the most quads in four minutes, and I think some skaters would abuse any relaxation to the full extent. I am not sure i want to see a +3T+2t+2l tacked onto almost all the jumps just for fun. Though for an exhibition a no Zayak free competition could be hilarious!

 

[Blades of Passion]

Sadly any amendment would likely make it more confusing.

Not if the amendment was "everything a skater does in the Long Program will be scored and we will pick the highest scoring valid elements as the ones that count."

 

[StitchMonkey]

Not if the amendment was "everything a skater does in the Long Program will be scored and we will pick the highest scoring valid elements as the ones that count."

Actually that could work. Maybe with a suggestion that putting a 3T on the end of every jump will not result in high PCS marks, but I like the way you think.

 

[Meoima]

Not if the amendment was "everything a skater does in the Long Program will be scored and we will pick the highest scoring valid elements as the ones that count."

Can you elaborate an example?

 

[Mrs. P]

Doh! You're right BOP. I blame it on end-of-day fuzz.

Anyway, I agree that the more likely thing is they moved the 2A to the end, but not as part of a sequence. He's already said on the media call that he's put two 3-3's in the second half, so I don't see him forgoing the 3F-3T, which is basically his money combo.

So maybe the layout is more like
3A-2T
3Z
--
3Lo
3A
3F-3T
3Z-1L-3S
2A
2A

 

[StitchMonkey]

Didn't Rohene at one point have a 2A in the middle of a Riverdance sequence? Maybe we are going to see something like that here. Like a 2A, something pretty and choreographic followed quickly by a 2A. Just enough flourish between to look good and make them separate jumps. Actually that could look rather lovely.

 

[Mrs. P]

Didn't Rohene at one point have a 2A in the middle of a Riverdance sequence? Maybe we are going to see something like that here. Like a 2A, something pretty and choreographic followed quickly by a 2A. Just enough flourish between to look good and make them separate jumps. Actually that could look rather lovely.

Maybe he'll do it at the end of his choreo sequence.

 

[StitchMonkey]

Maybe he'll do it at the end of his choreo sequence.

Or he could bookend it with 2As. That could be rather pretty.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Can you elaborate an example?

Well the first thing would be to count all "extra" Triples as just being doubles. There's no reason to punish skaters arbitrarily. Like when Nobunari Oda at 2011 Worlds did a 3Toe+3Toe and followed it up with 3Axel+3Toe. That entire second combination received 0 points, which makes no sense. His opening jump combo should have just been scored as 2Toe+3Toe. That keeps the zayak rule alive while properly rewarding the skater for what they actually did in their performance. Similarly, "extra" double axels in a performance should just be scored as singles and any "extra" combinations should just have the additional part discounted (like if a skater does 3Lutz+2Toe and already did all of their jump combinations in the program, just discount the 2Toe part. No reason to discount the first jump)

The second part would be allowing skaters extra tries at elements. If a skater falls on one of their 3Axel attempts in a program, for example, let them try and throw another one in later. Nobody can do that anymore because it's just automatically worth 0 points. It reduces the excitement of competitions and makes everything more predictable. Let people do whatever they are able to do, instead of having to think about math and random rules while performing. Everyone is limited by time in their programs, so it's not unfair. If someone falls on the start of a spin or falls on a jump and wants to go for it again, then they are inherently leaving out other choreography. Or, in the case of the skater who fell on a 3Axel and wants to replace a planned 2Axel with third 3Axel attempt, then that earlier 3Axel they fell on would just be scored as their 2Axel. They'd still be losing some points for that mistake.

I worked the whole system out here - http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...-the-Scoring-System-and-Improving-Ice-Skating

 

[Blades of Passion]

Doh! You're right BOP. I blame it on end-of-day fuzz.

Anyway, I agree that the more likely thing is they moved the 2A to the end, but not as part of a sequence. He's already said on the media call that he's put two 3-3's in the second half, so I don't see him forgoing the 3F-3T, which is basically his money combo.

So maybe the layout is more like
3A-2T
3Z
--
3Lo
3A
3F-3T
3Z-1L-3S
2A
2A

Strategically, it would make even more sense if both 3Axel's were in the first half, since that is his problem jump. He'd be doing 3Lutz-1L-3S combo, 3Flip-3T combo, and then solo 3Lutz in the second half. I'll bet that's how they re-arranged the program.

 

[Scovies]

Strategically, it would make even more sense if both 3Axel's were in the first half, since that is his problem jump. He'd be doing 3Lutz-1L-3S combo, 3Flip-3T combo, and then solo 3Lutz in the second half. I'll bet that's how they re-arranged the program.

That definitely seems more likely. He'd end up with a BV of 75.98 if he gets level 4s on his steps and spins.

 

[TMC]

With the new rule that a skater can include any jumps of 2 revs or less in the choreo seq - which would not occupy a box - he could do six double flips interspersed with lunges and ina bauers and steps if he wanted to in his chseq. And then do the 2 As for points at the end. But I doubt he'd want to waste his energy.

Not saying that this is what he's planning, just pointing out another crazy new rule

 

[TMC]

Strategically, it would make even more sense if both 3Axel's were in the first half, since that is his problem jump. He'd be doing 3Lutz-1L-3S combo, 3Flip-3T combo, and then solo 3Lutz in the second half. I'll bet that's how they re-arranged the program.

I have been hoping all season that they'd move the 2nd 3A to the first half...

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Doh! You're right BOP. I blame it on end-of-day fuzz.

Anyway, I agree that the more likely thing is they moved the 2A to the end, but not as part of a sequence. He's already said on the media call that he's put two 3-3's in the second half, so I don't see him forgoing the 3F-3T, which is basically his money combo.

So maybe the layout is more like
3A-2T
3Z
--
3Lo
3A
3F-3T
3Z-1L-3S
2A
2A

That is an insanely packed 2nd half. SIX jumping passes? That's extremely unbalanced. I mean, why not go even more overboard and put the 3Z in the 2nd half instead of a 2A?

 

[Mrs. P]

That is an insanely packed 2nd half. SIX jumping passes? That's extremely unbalanced. I mean, why not go even more overboard and put the 3Z in the 2nd half instead of a 2A?

We don't know if this is the layout for sure. But given the lack of a quad, you do what you have to do.