State of US Ladies in skating III: 2014-15 Season

[AsadaFanBoy]

i really do think Gracie's talents would be better suited under Orser. She has the raw talent but he can shape that talent and mold her. I think he could make Gracie Gold a champion.

And possibly fix that terrible flip.

 

[LiamForeman]

I could see her doing well under Orser. And Toronto is much closer to Detroit. (Wait is her family from Detroit or Chicago?)

I'm still hoping she's going to have tunnel vision these next few weeks and blow it out of the park at Worlds.

 

[Interspectator]

I could see her doing well under Orser. And Toronto is much closer to Detroit. (Wait is her family from Detroit or Chicago?)

I'm still hoping she's going to have tunnel vision these next few weeks and blow it out of the park at Worlds.

Orser is a great coach...but can he really fix Gracie's problems with her competition jitters? What about Adam Rippon?

 

[Jammers]

Yeah when a skater struggles people always say find a new coach but Gracie's problems aren't coaching but mental. Whoever she goes to she will still be the same competitor as she was with her last coach. In the end it's up to Gold to figure out how to compete better because as crappy as her LP may be we know when she skates well she will win or get on the medal stand at every event she skates in.

 

[R.D.]

Samson said, "I do wonder if Gracie should leave Frank once the season is over and before things go further south. I think he was valuable when she had the clear drive of the Olympics pushing her, and it was sort of ok that they weren't connecting in a really organic way, but I just don't think the Lori/Frank approach sings with her."

TSL made this point in their 4CC wrap-up. Yeah, their wrap-ups can be snarky and gossipy... I acknowledge that.

Anyway, they thought the whole Frank thing wasn't panning out, that Lori isn't the right choreographer for her... that her skating hadn't really improved. I can't disagree.

They suggested Kori Ade... more nurturing, more likely to let Gracie explore music that suits her... they thought Rohene could craft a much better suited program for her. I like this idea.

The thought did enter my mind, but I think it's probably just a down season for her. I will wait until after worlds before I join the rally. She can still rebound. I won't give up on her just yet.

 

[yyyskate]

I miss this Gracie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlAf6wIcjtQ
and this Gracie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsNKmH2Prg8

 

[britebells]

I could see her doing well under Orser. And Toronto is much closer to Detroit. (Wait is her family from Detroit or Chicago?)

Her family's from Springfield, Illinois. It's about 3 hours from Chicago (I believe).

 

[Skater Boy]

But Kwan never won Olympic Gold despite winning multiples of just about everything else out there. Does that lessen her career any?



That is not my intent. But it is a definite fact that Wagner, while having a respectable career by itself, is nowhere near as successful on the world stage as past US skating greats, and even those who weren't considered great or even merely good. Look at Sarah Hughes, who gets a lot of ridicule on here. Even she has a world bronze and an Olympic gold, not to mention a few National medals.



You know though - it's such a tough call. I certainly didn't in the past, but that was before 4CC. The 4CC was so underwhelming, with even the winner (Edmunds) putting up beatable numbers. OTOH, the Russian women at Euros looked potent. I will say this: outside of the Russians, Wagner does have the most momentum going into the event. It remains to be seen whether that is enough to finally propel her to the podium, though. She is not my pick for bronze (I'm still leaning toward a Russian sweep), but if even one of them messes up, that door opens (like GPF). You never really know with skating - hopefully we'll be in for some more surprises. I know I'd personally love to see Wagner (and/or Gold) on the podium. But ultimately we have to keep emotions in check and be real about things.

I think it is very real that Gold, Edmonds or most likely Wagner will be on the world podium. Odds are one of the Russians are going to make an error and Wagner has the experience unlike any of them plus the pcs. She just needs to land her jumps and fully rotate them of course. As for Gold I am not sure Kori or Rohene have enough experience; they work for some and but they seem a bit rough whereas Brian seems to have more experience and polish. Gracie needs a good balance of experience, toughness and holding the hand. Don't count her out.

 

[cruzceleste]

Kori or Rohene have enough experience; they work for some and but they seem a bit rough whereas Brian seems to have more experience and polish. Gracie needs a good balance of experience, toughness and holding the hand. Don't count her out.

Can someone tell me who Kori and Rohene are working with?

 

[Mrs. P]

Can someone tell me who Kori and Rohene are working with?

They have four senior skaters: Kori has worked with Jason and Jordan Moeller since they were kids. Mariah Bell and Tyler Pierce came in the last year. All four did quite well at nationals. Mariah and Tyler finished in the top 10 (Mariah was 6th; Tyler was 7th) and Jordan was 13th in his senior debut.

They also work with a number of novice and junior skaters.

I agree with others, that if there are certain issues at play, a coaching change isn't necessarily going to do a whole lot. Brian certainly has had success with Yuna, Yuzuru, Javi and Nam, but he's also had a few that weren't as successful. Christina Gao was training with him for most of her junior career and Adam Rippon was there as well.

Actually what we're seeing with Gracie has played out over in her career before. I remember reading that after Gracie finished 4th in Novice, she felt a lot of pressure That along with a major growth spurt lead to her not qualifying for 2011 nationals. Then she had a great 2012 year....and in 2012-2013 she really struggled to make the transition to seniors, though ended with respectable 6th place finish at Worlds. Seems that once she was USA No. 1, plus the long Olympic season plus the injury, unraveled her a bit. But she is a hard worker and I think she'll be much better at Worlds.

I do think Kori could help Gracie deal with nerves. Jason said when he was a kid, that the was full of nerves and hated competing, but Kori taught him how to harness that nervous energy into something positive. Nobody would every think that of him now. But again, I'm not sure if the coach is the issue.

 

[cruzceleste]

They have four senior skaters: Kori has worked with Jason and Jordan Moeller since they were kids. Mariah Bell and Tyler Pierce came in the last year. All four did quite well at nationals. Mariah and Tyler finished in the top 10 (Mariah was 6th; Tyler was 7th) and Jordan was 13th in his senior debut.

They also work with a number of novice and junior skaters.

Thank you.

But isn´t part of Gracie´s problem her jumps? I don´t think Kori is a good jump teacher (I could be wrong). And Rohene could do programs for Gracie with out her changing coach.

At the same time, I don´t think Borser will work for Gracie.

And I hate to bring the subject, but it looks to me that Gracie looks heavier that before (look at the videos yyyskate posted, or the correct term will be "more muscular"?), could it be that of ice work (like weight lifting) is affecting her balance?

 

[Mrs. P]

Thank you.

But isn´t part of Gracie´s problem her jumps? I don´t think Kori is a good jump teacher (I could be wrong). And Rohene could do programs for Gracie with out her changing coach.

At the same time, I don´t think Borser will work for Gracie.

I don't think the jumps are the problem. As people noted, she hits them consistently in practice. It's all about executing them in competition. The thing Kori does well, IMO, is making sure they're well-trained and well-prepared for competition to the point where that even if they make a mistake it doesn't unravel on them. If you look at Jason, even when he messes up, he doesn't let go of the performance or the rest of the program so he manages to salvage it enough so he doesn't lose more points. As a result his FS scores have always been in a general range of 150-159 rather than the huge roller coaster we've seen from some of the men.

The only time I think Jason had a meltdown was in the last 30 seconds of his FS at 2012 Nationals when he fell three times.

 

[shiroKJ]

Maybe she's just not comfortable with where she is right now. Coach? Programs? Status? Who knows..but I hope she bounces back soon.

 

[LiamForeman]

Orser is a great coach...but can he really fix Gracie's problems with her competition jitters? What about Adam Rippon?

See, I'm not sure if she has competition jitters per se, or just skates with a lot of pressure on her shoulders. Three years ago, she was looked at as the future of US skating and the 'can't miss' kid. She moved across the country to a preeminent coach. Major life changes. Carroll doesn't seem to be a touchy feely coach, and I'm sure Gold must feel a sense of pressure to be his star student. He looks like a disapproving grandfather. I think Orser at least appears to be interested in his students and doesn't just phone it in. A younger coach would probably be what she needs. She has the jumps and skills, just like Yuna when she went to Orser. I think it would be a good matchup.

 

[jenaj]

See, I'm not sure if she has competition jitters per se, or just skates with a lot of pressure on her shoulders. Three years ago, she was looked at as the future of US skating and the 'can't miss' kid. She moved across the country to a preeminent coach. Major life changes. Carroll doesn't seem to be a touchy feely coach, and I'm sure Gold must feel a sense of pressure to be his star student. He looks like a disapproving grandfather. I think Orser at least appears to be interested in his students and doesn't just phone it in. A younger coach would probably be what she needs. She has the jumps and skills, just like Yuna when she went to Orser. I think it would be a good matchup.

I'm not sure she needs a new coach, but she definitely needs a new choreographer. Shae Lynn Bourne would be my suggestion.

 

[desertskates]

Poor Gracie is just plain nervous. I know it because I have it (with much less at stake). But I can see she's terrified. It's plain to see that she's highly talented, but with nerves like that, I sadly doubt she'll go too far.
I think a sports psych and a kinder coach like Kori Ade is what she needs.

 

[apgold]

Carroll doesn't seem to be a touchy feely coach, and I'm sure Gold must feel a sense of pressure to be his star student. He looks like a disapproving grandfather.

Gracie never looks comfortable in the K&C with him (except for that time he tried to eat the plushy), IMO. I'm not sure he is best fit for her even though he's "legendary" for his years with Kwan.

Sometimes I just like to watch Frank in the K&C to see if he actually has another expression other than constipated, LOL. Even with Denis's win and near record scores, he didn't look that impressed.

 

[jenaj]

I miss this Gracie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlAf6wIcjtQ
and this Gracie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsNKmH2Prg8

I really hate that Gershwin music, but Gracie did skate to that piece with a lot more energy and personality. I liked her dress, too. The Grieg concerto was good for a season but I wished she had ditched it this year. The more I see it, the more I think it looks like something Lori had choreographed for Michelle Kwan and had to shelve when Michelle switched choreographers. Gracie needs something that suits her personality more--I just don't see her as a pretty princess type.

 

[cruzceleste]

Gracie never looks comfortable in the K&C with him (except for that time he tried to eat the plushy), IMO. I'm not sure he is best fit for her even though he's "legendary" for his years with Kwan.

Sometimes I just like to watch Frank in the K&C to see if he actually has another expression other than constipated, LOL. Even with Denis's win and near record scores, he didn't look that impressed.

Is always weird how people read so much into a people persona/ relationship based on K&C.

Gracie and Carroll can have the closest relationship when they are not in from of all the camaras, Polina is a happy teenager yet people think she doesn´t have personality based on her K&C just because she doesn´t go all Narumi at Worlds 2012 when she gets her score.

 

[shine]

Is always weird how people read so much into a people persona/ relationship based on K&C.

Gracie and Carroll can have the closest relationship when they are not in from of all the camaras, Polina is a happy teenager yet people think she doesn´t have personality based on her K&C just because she doesn´t go all Narumi at Worlds 2012 when she gets her score.

Seriously. I would love to see how all these people, who have been so quick to judge and criticize others based on the very little that they've seen on TV, would behave, if they were to be put in front of the camera or answer questions from the media that they don't see coming their way.