Elizaveta's triple A

[BlackPack]

Ashley's choreography is often empty. She is polished. I don't know if she's as fast as Tuk?

Elena's Rach 3 is pretty awkward to watch. I have to re-watch Michelle's Rach 3 to recover. Elena is a lovely youthful presence but her posture and other factors make it hard for me to take the program seriously.

 

[FlattFan]

For the longest time, Tuk's biggest downfall was she doesn't cover a lot of ice in her program. Just search back 2 seasons ago. If you put her up against the Yuna and Mao and Carolina, she skated very small. I see improvement, but not enough.
Basically everyone currently skating should be 64 or lower. 64 = average 8 in each component. None of them are there yet.

 

[rollerblade]

I think she should skip the 3A for the short, where there's virtually no place to make up for a fall. Up the 3-3 to something more than 3T-3T, and save the 3A for the free. I still can't believe she doesn't do 3Z-3T, with the monstrous lutzes she always gets.

 

[Globetrotter]

Ashley's choreography is often empty. She is polished. I don't know if she's as fast as Tuk?

Elena's Rach 3 is pretty awkward to watch. I have to re-watch Michelle's Rach 3 to recover. Elena is a lovely youthful presence but her posture and other factors make it hard for me to take the program seriously.

I have often noted that Ashley Wagner, while a good performer with unique interpretations, does not have the corresponding SS like a Caro K or Yuna Kim. Her edge work is at best average, sort of like Sasha Cohen - the speed is also not quite at the level of even Tuks or Radio. In contrast, for all her headcase, Gracie Gold does have strong SS but I find her PE/IN rather lacking. So for that I will say Wagner deserves higher PE/IN scores but lower SS. A pity that the PCS scoring does not seem to really reflect so clearly these aspects. In terms of the "artistry" side of things in PCS, I guess PE, CR and IN are the more subjective ones. While Radio and Tuks may not have the best lines and posture, the exuberance and positive energy they bring to the ice does help. Radio in particular is extremely friendly on the eye with her extroverted skating and the big smiley personality she brings. While unpolished relative to Wagner, she does bring on the smiles and put audience and judges in a feel good mode, thus it is not surprising she can get high PE scores despite the rawness.

 

[BlackPack]

I have often noted that Ashley Wagner, while a good performer with unique interpretations, does not have the corresponding SS like a Caro K or Yuna Kim. Her edge work is at best average, sort of like Sasha Cohen - the speed is also not quite at the level of even Tuks or Radio. In contrast, for all her headcase, Gracie Gold does have strong SS but I find her PE/IN rather lacking. So for that I will say Wagner deserves higher PE/IN scores but lower SS. A pity that the PCS scoring does not seem to really reflect so clearly these aspects. In terms of the "artistry" side of things in PCS, I guess PE, CR and IN are the more subjective ones. While Radio and Tuks may not have the best lines and posture, the exuberance and positive energy they bring to the ice does help. Radio in particular is extremely friendly on the eye with her extroverted skating and the big smiley personality she brings. While unpolished relative to Wagner, she does bring on the smiles and put audience and judges in a feel good mode, thus it is not surprising she can get high PE scores despite the rawness.

To be honest... ladies has been hard for me to watch. None of the skaters are really my cup of tea. I really enjoyed ladies before Mao, Yuna, and Caro retired. I don't think the current heir apparents can hold a candle to them as of now. I hope they will get there. I find that many Russian skaters in the past stopped improving their style and choreography as long as their technical content is still winning them competitions. Or they do the least to win. I get that sense from Tuk and Mishin's "do enough to win" attitude, but the aim isn't a masterpiece of a program or an artistic breakthrough.

And really, COP should add "Reputation" in the PCS scores

 

[Tutto]

As someone who is a proponent of calling falls more harshly I really hope she lands more than she doesn't in competition because I will never think it's very exciting to watch fully rotated falls and I can't get behind the points being awarded. Sorry but a clean 2a is better than a fully rotated 3a fall. At least it should look that way on the protocols.

My thoughts exactly :agree:

 

[Tutto]

Lisa is to compete at Open Competition for Prizes of St Petersburg's Federation of Figure Skating taking place on 3 -6 March in St Petersburg, Russia:

http://fsnews.ru/index-m-single-id-2497.html

Also on the list: Kavaguti/Smirnov, Bazarova/Deputat

I guess this is the competition Mishin was talking about when he said Lisa will try 3A one more time before the Worlds

 

[LRK]

The best lady skater of all time? Oh please dont go to far

Sabinfire wasn't. It was a question, asking just how much improvement FlattFan expected from Liza that would be "enough" for now.

 

[Ophelia]

How fast is Liza?

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Ashley's choreography is often empty. She is polished. I don't know if she's as fast as Tuk?

Elena's Rach 3 is pretty awkward to watch. I have to re-watch Michelle's Rach 3 to recover. Elena is a lovely youthful presence but her posture and other factors make it hard for me to take the program seriously.

Ashley's choreography is more engaging than Tukt's. I agree that Rach is awkward to see Elena tackle (as awkward as Mao trying to pull off Bells of Moscow), but it's what she needs to do to be taken seriously in the judges' eyes -- one "fun" program (her SP) and one "serious" program.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

For the longest time, Tuk's biggest downfall was she doesn't cover a lot of ice in her program. Just search back 2 seasons ago. If you put her up against the Yuna and Mao and Carolina, she skated very small. I see improvement, but not enough.
Basically everyone currently skating should be 64 or lower. 64 = average 8 in each component. None of them are there yet.

It is rather unfair to put Liza up against Kim/Asada/Kostner. It's remarkable the progress she's made this season in terms of consistency. With better programs (i.e. not just getting jumps out of the way first), I think she could come close to that standard. But for now it's great that she's not just back in the game but actually leading the pack - and ditched the tango programs ad nauseum. It took Mao quite a few seasons to really mature artistically with much of her focus on the 3A, but it is a process. I think we can see the same in Liza and tbh, the only thing holding her back is Mishin-style programs (although, ironically, it's through Mishin that her jumping has become solid again)... I would love to see what she can do with somebody like a Lori Nichol.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

It is rather unfair to put Liza up against Kim/Asada/Kostner. It's remarkable the progress she's made this season in terms of consistency. With better programs (i.e. not just getting jumps out of the way first), I think she could come close to that standard. But for now it's great that she's not just back in the game but actually leading the pack - and ditched the tango programs ad nauseum. It took Mao quite a few seasons to really mature artistically with much of her focus on the 3A, but it is a process. I think we can see the same in Liza and tbh, the only thing holding her back is Mishin-style programs (although, ironically, it's through Mishin that her jumping has become solid again)... I would love to see what she can do with somebody like a Lori Nichol.

It's natural to compare Liza to those three because in a few weeks Liza is (probably) going to be the world champion, and those three have won all the world titles in recent years. That she is the best skater right now says a lot about the state of the sport. I do wish that she would work with a choreographer that would help her take more command of her programs.

 

[Sandpiper]

How fast is Liza?

I get the sense that Liza is quite fast, but she she can still work on gaining speed more "nicely" as Kurt Browning puts it.

I would love to see what she can do with somebody like a Lori Nichol.

No. Just... no.

 

[LRK]

I get the sense that Liza is quite fast, but she she can still work on gaining speed more "nicely" as Kurt Browning puts it.


No. Just... no.

Yeah - she'd be skating to POTO, trying to look plaintive... If the programs seem to me like a bad fit for Gracie - they'd be a horrific one for Liza.

Also who's programs are the most "engaging" is in the eye of the beholder. At least the audiences seem sufficiently "engaged"...

(As they do for Ashley - I'm not trying to "put down" Ashley, whom I like a lot.)

 

[solani]

Yeah - she'd be skating to POTO, trying to look plaintive... If the programs seem to me like a bad fit for Gracie - they'd be a horrific one for Liza.

You never know ... but, when I remember correctly, Nichol once said, that she starts working with skaters when they're still very young. So it won't happen anyway.

 

[Sandpiper]

To elaborate on my anti-Nichol gut reaction...

I think Lori Nichol can work wonders if you're a certain type of skater (lyrical, detail-oriented?). But she seems to have one set "type" for female skaters, and that's not a mould that fits Liza in any shape or form. I mean, goodness, even Gabrielle Daleman got the princess packaging, and she's about the last person that needs it!

I don't have faith that Nichol will actually go out her way to find something that fits Liza...

 

[LRK]

You never know ... but, when I remember correctly, Nichol once said, that she starts working with skaters when they're still very young. So it won't happen anyway.

Well, didn't Lori Nichol only start working with Gracie last year?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gracie_Gold#Programs

Wasn't Gracie 18 then? At any rate, she can't have been much younger than Liza is now. I do agree that her working with Liza is extremely unlikely (for which I'm devoutly grateful), just that that is unlikely to be the reason. Since Team Mishin have worked with Jeffrey Buttle and/or Stephane Lambiel before, those could be more realistic options.

 

[BlackPack]

To be honest, I don't think Liza and Mishin are that interested in completely transforming her image and coming up with groundbreaking choreography. They will do enough to win.

 

[LRK]

To be honest, I don't think Liza and Mishin are that interested in completely transforming her image and coming up with groundbreaking choreography. They will do enough to win.

Why should they want to "completely transform her image" anyway? Liza's got her own style - that could of course be developed; but I don't understand why skaters should try to be someone they aren't just to conform to some ideal standard of "Art" - which, for some reason, seems to always involve skating around looking soulfully into the middle distance.

 

[Scovies]

To elaborate on my anti-Nichol gut reaction...

I think Lori Nichol can work wonders if you're a certain type of skater (lyrical, detail-oriented?). But she seems to have one set "type" for female skaters, and that's not a mould that fits Liza in any shape or form. I mean, goodness, even Gabrielle Daleman got the princess packaging, and she's about the last person that needs it!

I don't have faith that Nichol will actually go out her way to find something that fits Liza...

Me either. I'd much rather her go to someone like Shae-Lynn or Phillip Mills. I'm not very familiar with Russian choreographers other than Morozov and Tarasova; are there any who might be good for her?