Another thing about Cohen that people took for granted: While she was shaky in the FS, you could practically count on her to deliver in the short program and get in position. This is so critical. This was true all the way up to her ill-fated 2010 comeback.
State of US Ladies in skating III: 2014-15 Season
- Thread starter R.D.
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I'm glad I didn't get up at 3AM to watch the final group. Ashley must've crumbled under the pressure. I guess Worlds is her new Nationals. I'm sure she'll come back fighting in the free skate and move up. Her medal chances are pretty much gone, but she could make the Top 6.
Glad Polina is clean but the judges aren't in her corner yet. I have no words for Gracie.
And yes, I miss Sasha too.
Glad Polina is clean but the judges aren't in her corner yet. I have no words for Gracie.
And yes, I miss Sasha too.
What I suspect happened with Wagner is that again, she wanted that world medal so badly and resorted to old habits as a result. Remember, same thing happened in 2012 when she took herself out of the running (and the final group).
She just blew the best chance she'll ever have in her career. It only gets tougher from here on out. She will be the perennial almost girl. The 2008 generation just was not meant to stand on that podium, ever.
She just blew the best chance she'll ever have in her career. It only gets tougher from here on out. She will be the perennial almost girl. The 2008 generation just was not meant to stand on that podium, ever.
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I know people keep on saying things happen in cycles. But I don't think the Russian 90's situation is a great example. Their entire country collapsed. People were going hungry. Not to mention Irina and Maria held up well. Russia recovered a lot quickly from their collapse than we have on ours.
I think it wouldn't hurt the USFSA to look at what other countries are doing and see what they can do to copy it. I personally think more competitions would do the skaters a world of good at the LOWER levels. I think the system used to give JGP spots is problematic to say the least. Same with the qualification for Nationals. (Why not have only sectional winners guaranteed and then minimum qualifying scores?
The Russians do a much better job of seasoning their skaters, giving them internal Russian competitions to compete in. (Russian Cups) and they make international assignments based ona variety of competitions.
I do think depth plays a role in Russia's success. When you have so many people around you who are that good, you either compete well or go by the way side. You also have to work on things to distinguish yourself from the others. (I frankly wish some trades were possible so some of the wealth/good female skaters could be spread around)
I think the US benefited from the big time depth too back in the 90s. I think that before the level of international competition wasn't as high when the US was dominating. And some changes need to be made.
Give these kids more competition to see where they are at younger ages. .. And start judging realistically at Nationals. Okay there are PCS inflation. But if someone flutzes, hit him for it.
I know a lot of people are praising Polina's attitude and in some ways its good. BUT I do think honey if the technical callers are consistently hitting you for an edge violation than there really is an issue there and maybe at the very least you should not do the flip in the short.
I think it wouldn't hurt the USFSA to look at what other countries are doing and see what they can do to copy it. I personally think more competitions would do the skaters a world of good at the LOWER levels. I think the system used to give JGP spots is problematic to say the least. Same with the qualification for Nationals. (Why not have only sectional winners guaranteed and then minimum qualifying scores?
The Russians do a much better job of seasoning their skaters, giving them internal Russian competitions to compete in. (Russian Cups) and they make international assignments based ona variety of competitions.
I do think depth plays a role in Russia's success. When you have so many people around you who are that good, you either compete well or go by the way side. You also have to work on things to distinguish yourself from the others. (I frankly wish some trades were possible so some of the wealth/good female skaters could be spread around)
I think the US benefited from the big time depth too back in the 90s. I think that before the level of international competition wasn't as high when the US was dominating. And some changes need to be made.
Give these kids more competition to see where they are at younger ages. .. And start judging realistically at Nationals. Okay there are PCS inflation. But if someone flutzes, hit him for it.
I know a lot of people are praising Polina's attitude and in some ways its good. BUT I do think honey if the technical callers are consistently hitting you for an edge violation than there really is an issue there and maybe at the very least you should not do the flip in the short.
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I think it would be tough to replicate the Russian model in the US. There is just not the type of funding here that Russia is offering to its Ladies program.
I get that 9 years seems like a long time to fans, but it's not even close to the worse sports drought ever. The USA had like a 60+ year streak of world contenders and that was partially because there were only a few countries that were competitive. That isn't the case so much now.
Then again, I'm not that heavily invested in ladies, so maybe I'm the wrong person to voice any sort of opinion on this.
I get that 9 years seems like a long time to fans, but it's not even close to the worse sports drought ever. The USA had like a 60+ year streak of world contenders and that was partially because there were only a few countries that were competitive. That isn't the case so much now.
Then again, I'm not that heavily invested in ladies, so maybe I'm the wrong person to voice any sort of opinion on this.
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- Mar 8, 2006
This was key. I think she would get distracted or lose focus during the LPs but her SPs were bang on SO many times.
And to discuss the Rolling Stone piece, I don't see a Russian system working well in the USA. Too many parents would object to their kids leaving home at a young age.
I don't think we can copy the Russian model but changes can be certainly made. Look at gymnastics where you have the girls on the national team meet every couple of months for monitoring and internal competition (although I think the girls are benefited by a lack of competition in gymnastics) I personally think more internal competitions and monitoring are needed.
No reason we cannot learn from what others are doing and improve. Adopt it to our own system. Would the parents object to every three months Going to a Champs camp especially if their kids improve?
I think there are obviously some coaching issues too.
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Fair enough.
It's probably worth looking within also. US is still quite successful in Ice Dance, even with the hiatus (and likely departure) of Davis and White. How has Ice Dance avoided this lull that we're seeing in other disciplines?
It's probably worth looking within also. US is still quite successful in Ice Dance, even with the hiatus (and likely departure) of Davis and White. How has Ice Dance avoided this lull that we're seeing in other disciplines?
Look at the coaches who are coaching these dance teams. What system do they come from. I suspect with the lack of Dance tradition here, the Russian coaches have way more ability to employ Russian methods. Also look at the state of dance in Europe. There's no great Asian teams either. Like there is in pairs, ladies, and mens.
I think there are things in place that can be used like more group lessons. A stronger testing system as the article mentions. You want to make it to this level do it in competition.. Teach these skaters how to compete at a younger age. We don't have to be Russia but we can learn at least from somewhat they are doing.
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- Mar 8, 2006
This is very similar to gymnastics. Every month the top 20 or so girls in the country go to the Karolyi ranch for a weekend to train/work on issues/compete against each other. International teams are made up of an athlete's body of work, including what they do at the ranch. It's worked well considering how we've been OWNING women's gymnastics for the past 10 years.
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- Dec 25, 2012
I think we need to wait and see the FS before the predictions of doom and gloom can be made for sure.
Any of these 3 ladies can still rise in the placements in the FS. -Good luck to all of them.
Any of these 3 ladies can still rise in the placements in the FS. -Good luck to all of them.
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- Jan 25, 2013
She did a clean SP at NHK just this season. The main issue is that Gold isn't a FS skater, so it'll be really tough for her to move up (usually she starts strong and then tries to hang on in the FS). Wagner... I mean, I feel horrible... she clearly wanted it so bad. Even a 3Z+2T would have set her up better in the FS (she should have known the landing of her lutz was off), and of course, to err on both her 2A and 3F after... it just wasn't meant to be.
We'll see what the FS holds. If Miyahara/Murakami goes clean, then the US women weren't meant to podium anyways.
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- Jan 25, 2013
To be fair, Polina delivered. A lot of people are lumping her in with Gold and Wagner who were disasters themselves, but Polina delivered - got her 3Z+3T, went clean. She's essentially tied for 5th right now (too bad about the deductions on her lip, which I thought deserved 0 at worst). I'm annoyed that she still went with the lip, when a loop would have gotten her into that critical final flight.
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- Jul 31, 2014
How is a ! clean?
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
Agreed. Especially if you look at the season's best freeskates:
Murakami (108.95)
Li (115.65)
Hongo (118.15)
Wagner (129.26) and Gold (123.00) and Edmunds (122.99) can definitely make up ground if Murakami/Li/Hongo don't bring their best.
Miyahara has also had FS scores of 118 (NHK), 116 (4CC) - along with a 121 (SC).
It ain't over yet.
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- Jan 25, 2013
It's a clean skate as far as conventions go. Otherwise we could argue that Michelle Kwan never gave a clean skate, given her flutz.
True, but there's one little problem. Just a minor hitch...
The Japanese are in the final group. The Americans are not.
Wagner's lowest SP this season was 60 and yet she comes here and gets 57. Gold underperformed as well. Likewise, the JPN ladies can definitely get in the 120s and perhaps even 130.
Give it up, it's over. I know I'm not watching the FS, even if I happen to be up late enough.
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- Jan 13, 2014
It isn't a 'clean skate' if you make a mistake that carries an automatic GOE deduction.
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