State of US Ladies in skating III: 2014-15 Season

[samson]

How about the state of Gracie's programs?



If Gracie stays with Frank, does she have the option of working with choreographers besides Lori? Or are Lori and Frank too much of a package deal? The Lori programs just aren't doing anything for her aside from the usual Lori Nichol polish; Gracie doesn't bring anything to them to make them really special.

I've been wondering about this. I can't remember the last time beyond Michelle that a Frank student worked with someone other than Lori. I remember starting around 99 Michelle started working with other choreographers for things like the Japan Open (Hands) but then she even had Christopher Dean so a short program for the grand prix in the 00/01 season before switching to East of Eden. She also tried Peter Oppegard, but it wasn't until she used Sarah Karahawa to do her Salt Lake long that she really did a full departure from Lori.

I don't know the circumstances of those choices and who or what was making the call when she worked with other choreographers. All the ones I just mentioned were while she was with Frank. But, there days Frank does seem pretty set on having Lori do the programs.

 

[Globetrotter]

Hard to believe that Gracie came so close to medaling after her terrible SP. She really needs to get it together Miyahara should not be getting on the World podium before Gracie. If both skate clean Gracie beats her every single time. Maybe being so close ot getting on the podium will finally light a fire in her. 6th then 5th and now 4th she's getting closer. Will Boston be when Gold breaks the streak?

But that is exactly the whole point. While I agree that Gracie has better skills, she still needs to deliver. Neither she not Wagner did. Yes they came back strong in the FS, but as Devils advocate, I will say when the pressure is off and they knew that realistically a spot on the podium was gone, they delivered. Real life does not work this way where you win only when pressure is off. You have to fight and deliver when pressure is on. In FS, it is to deliver two programmes. Satori with her lesser skills did. Gracie didn't. So Satoko deserved her medal. Lena Radio fought through despite running a fever. Shaky on her 3Lz and could not tag a 3T. Despite being ill, she gut it out by tagging 3Lz 3T in her solo lutz. That is fight. Gracie and Wagner could really take a leaf from them. Or closer to home, from Michelle Kwan who always fought to the end on the FS despite falling behind on the short.

 

[Jaana]

2. Gracie get a new choreographer! Someone a little more current and not as staid.

In my opinion Gracie has a great choreographer, but maybe some different kind of music for her in next season would do the trick.

 

[ice coverage]

Ashley says on Twitter she is coming home with a small bronze medal. Was there a ceremony? I think we deserve to see something.

Photo of Ashley and Gracie at the small medal ceremony for the FS:

https://twitter.com/YukiSNYC/status/582100599774281728 (Mar 29, retweeted by @SarahAndDrew)​

 

[flying camel]

That's nice. When Ash said small I did not think they were that small. You can barely see those medals.

I still feel bad about how it all played out. But as the saying goes "will get them next year".

 

[ice coverage]

That's nice. When Ash said small I did not think they were that small. You can barely see those medals. ...

The full-fledged Worlds medals also are relatively diminutive ... compared to the big ol' Olympic medals .

https://www.facebook.com/isufigureskating/posts/952040594820882​

 

[Darthwill]

I think Tuk is beatable but it's going to take clean programs. I'm proud of Gracie and Ashley. Here some are scoffing because they didn't medal but they sure came back strong from diastrous SPs and 3 Americans in the top 10 is not shabby. I thought Gracie's dress was absolutely gorgeous and she seemed like the old Gracie on the ice. Makes you wonder what she could have done this year were it not for the stress fracture. Here's what I would like to see next year:

1. Polina get a makeover, stop wearing fairy dresses and skating to fairy music. She's long-limbed and those dresses with stuff flapping around her on her arms, etc. just makes her look gawky IMO.

2. Gracie get a new choreographer! Someone a little more current and not as staid.

3. Ashley............hmmmm, I don't know what I wish for Ashley. Maybe spend a little more time working on her URs and a little less roaring "I Am Woman"

4. Karen Chen - be allowed to develop without all the hype and pressure and skating to something a little more age and gender appropriate than The Godfather!

5. Samantha Cesario develop some speed in her skating.

6. Mirai Negasu..............no words. Can't think of another thing to say about her.

7. Ashley Cain - develop some style to go with all that athleticism.

8. Mariah Bell - here's my pick for a future star! There are Grand Prix and National medals in her immediate future!!!

I loved the fact that Chen used something other than the usual skating music suspects. I want to see female skaters skate outside of the very narrow and rigid norm of the pretty, pretty princess dancing around to soft girly music. I want them to push the limits athletically and technically; use powerful music and choreography.

 

[ranjake]

Gracie was great in the FS. Now if she could just do the same in the SP, she would easily be on the podium.

The new dress was gorgeous- she really did look like "Hollywood Gracie" And I enjoyed the LP for the first time!

 

[[email protected]]

I think Tuk is beatable but it's going to take clean programs.

That's very true if one states a little different: "Tuk is beatable but it's going to take clean programs against her meltdown". I am not sure how anyone can beat clean Tuk even with one 3A in SP only - it is going to be 75-78 in SP an 135-142 in FP, total 210-220. Who can do it now, Ashley or Gracie? Does not look realistic even with clean programs. They need 20-30 point boost to what they achieved this season.

 

[stella luna]

Gracie is great to watch live. I think she is the only one embodying the North American power skating style. Not so much nuanced but great speed, great ice coverage and she can skate to powerful/lyrical music Liza and Elena can't quite do. I don't hate her programs. I do think she has stage freight and should do a Lizarathon season to get over her nerves for good.

I'd like to see Gracie skate to something like Debussy's Clair de Lune.

 

[tulosai]

That's very true if one states a little different: "Tuk is beatable but it's going to take clean programs against her meltdown". I am not sure how anyone can beat clean Tuk even with one 3A in SP only - it is going to be 75-78 in SP an 135-142 in FP, total 210-220. Who can do it now, Ashley or Gracie? Does not look realistic even with clean programs. They need 20-30 point boost to what they achieved this season.

This. If she has the 3A for real ( by which I mean can actually hit it in SP 80+% of the time, even if she never puts it in the LP) then barring dramatic increases in technical content by other ladies she is ALWAYS going to go into the LP with at least a 6 pt lead and that's conservative. At that point the others need help from her to win- not necessarily a meltdown, in fact one huge mistake might do it- but if she goes even clean-ish it is hers. And this is assuming the others all go clean in the SP and LP which let's face it, isn't super common right now other than from maybe Radionova...who also can make mistakes as Worlds showed. If Tukt can add a consistent 3A to the LP too, even if she makes a few mistakes the others ( with current tech content) are doomed and she would indeed need a meltdown tor them to win.

Of course a new season is coming and things can change fast as Tukt herself proves. But right now things are looking pretty sweet for her. The simple truth is most ladies are not going to be capable of landing these 3As and quads they are now blustering about training.

 

[yyyskate]

let Liza do her 3A and all, and other ladies do their best quality 7-triple programs.

 

[Globetrotter]

let Liza do her 3A and all, and other ladies do their best quality 7-triple programs.

The reality is that Tuks does have a reliable 3-3. And she is one of the very rare ladies with all the 5 standard triples from toe loop to lutz with no edge errors. If the 3A becomes a consistent jump, this is it. Under CoP, even the best skaters with good PCS will be nearly impossible to catch someone with 3-3 and a 3A unless the 3A lady has a major splat fest or melt down. They will simply have to up their technical content by going for a 3A or quad. Imagine that Tuks already have a comfortable 6-7 point lead after the SP. Even with Mao and Caro or Yuna Kim PCS, it is almost impossible to catch and make up that difference due to the massive advantage the 3A gives unless the other jumps are unreliable.

 

[moriel]

The reality is that Tuks does have a reliable 3-3. And she is one of the very rare ladies with all the 5 standard triples from toe loop to lutz with no edge errors. If the 3A becomes a consistent jump, this is it. Under CoP, even the best skaters with good PCS will be nearly impossible to catch someone with 3-3 and a 3A unless the 3A lady has a major splat fest or melt down. They will simply have to up their technical content by going for a 3A or quad. Imagine that Tuks already have a comfortable 6-7 point lead after the SP. Even with Mao and Caro or Yuna Kim PCS, it is almost impossible to catch and make up that difference due to the massive advantage the 3A gives unless the other jumps are unreliable.

And Tuks also doesn´t seem very meltdown prone, unlike Anna P.
I wouldn´t say its almost impossible, someone Mao / Caro / Yuna Kim level would most likely match it (just looking at top scores, Tuks best is around 210 3A included, while Mao and Caro got 216, and Yuna 228). Now the hard part is actually finding someone that good =(

 

[ice coverage]

Article about Emily Chan after Gardena Spring Trophy:

Plano figure skater wins silver at international competition
Chan realizes lifetime goal as Team USA member

Posted: Saturday, April 4, 2015 9:00 am
http://starlocalmedia.com/planocour...cle_cfae4ffe-da45-11e4-b496-b70fc3db6855.html​

via Skate Today

 

[Bumdid]

And Tuks also doesn´t seem very meltdown prone, unlike Anna P.
I wouldn´t say its almost impossible, someone Mao / Caro / Yuna Kim level would most likely match it (just looking at top scores, Tuks best is around 210 3A included, while Mao and Caro got 216, and Yuna 228). Now the hard part is actually finding someone that good =(

You also have to consider that Tuk didn't put her 3A in her free skate. If she does so next year, it'll be very hard to beat her (unless she fell on it or something). Then add in the fact that her PCS will probably continue to grow since she's super consistent and now have the titles to back up her reputation. It'll be difficult for the american ladies to score higher than her.

If Gracie is consistent and does her program cleanly, she'll probably score in the low 70's for her sp and mid to high 130's for her fs. But she's so hot and cold at this point that you never know what to expect...

 

[Skater Boy]

I don't like "will (sic) get them next year". All these skaters are competitors skating for their countries and out to do the best they can do. They are not evil enemies out to hurt one another. But as for doing better all three American ladies at world's did fine; had it not been for the short program the may have had two skaters on the podium (mind you had Rad been healthy she may have been harder to beat). There are several younger American girls ready to take over soon from Chen, Cain, Bell and host of other and some veterans in Gao, Zawadiak and Nagasu and again there are others. Meanwhile the top competitors include a Japanese lady who may be affected by puberty still in Sakoto with tiny jumps as well as upcoming juniors from Russia who may face the same fate including the Tano twins and a list of other Russian contenders - not to mention only 3 can make it out of Russia anyways. Russia's top lady now doesn't have a triple lutz triple toe like the Americans, Rad is well young and growing as mentioned, Anna P is a hot mess and injured, Adelina has probably lost her competitive edge, Julia is losing the puberty monster and has psych issues, Leonova is aging and unable to do a decent long program, Korpi always was short technically and did not look good at worlds at all, Li and Park have not been consistent, Mete is on the downturn and the Swedish ladies are no real threat and at best seem to be top ten distant hopefuls while Canada'stop lady has had a major injury in Osmond and the others have ur issues - so the American ladies with 3 in the top ten, two in top 5 and four continents champ are looking pretty good

 

[kwanatic]

I think the saddest thing about the American ladies is that we have a number of really great skaters...what we lack is strong competitors. The US has better "skaters" but Russia and Japan has all of the hardcore competitors. That's why the US women are having such a hard time getting back to the podium.

2018 is still a long way off but I hope we'll see some of these potential ladies start to emerge. There is a seemingly endless stream of talent coming out of Russia and Japan has a number of excellent prospects on their hands now as well. The USFSA needs to step up and make changes. This country produces beautiful skaters but comparatively weak competitors. They need to find a way to fix that.

 

[Amei]

2018 is still a long way off but I hope we'll see some of these potential ladies start to emerge. There is a seemingly endless stream of talent coming out of Russia and Japan has a number of excellent prospects on their hands now as well. The USFSA needs to step up and make changes. This country produces beautiful skaters but comparatively weak competitors. They need to find a way to fix that.

Weren't we stating that after Vancouver?

 

[R.D.]

Weren't we stating that after Vancouver?