- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
Random Figure Skating Questions
- Thread starter tulosai
- Start date
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2014
Yeah, it puts all the 'blame' on you for being offended and none on the person whose action caused it!
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2012
I would not intentionally call someone else Oriental if I know the word bothers her or him.
My point is that in a similar vein to what you say above, my objection is that other people apparently get to pick what "should" bother me in terms of how I am identified.
I once found myself in a very awkward situation among co-workers when we were on an out-of-town assignment requiring us to share a large workspace. [BTW, this anecdote has nothing to do with the word "Oriental."]
A longtime peer (and longtime good friend) -- who is white -- happened to notice that I temporarily was doing something that fit an Asian stereotype. As a good-natured joke, he sketched a small sign referring to this stereotypical moment and taped it on the wall in my little corner of the work area. I thought his joke was very clever and was perfectly happy to share a laugh at myself b/c of what he and I both recognized as a temporary embodiment of the stereotype. I took no offense whatsoever.
But our longtime boss (and longtime good friend to both of us) -- who also is white -- got very upset with the sign, and immediately took it down. I told her that the sign had not offended me one bit, but she gave my peer a severe scolding anyway.
I realized that she had good intentions and was trying to do the "right" thing, but the truth is that she was so busy "protecting" me that she completely ignored my feelings in the matter. I had not felt bad about the sign itself, but I felt very bad that my peer/friend got scolded.
The Oriental thing bugs me for much the same reason.
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- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Off topic, but I was living in New York in the 1960s and I remember what a big news splash it made when the N.Y. police department designated the first Chinese-American teenager as a official “juvenile delinquent.” Everyone was aghast, because it had been official U.S. policy ever since the second world war to promote Chinatowns as family oriented model communities where children studied hard, got good grades, and never got in trouble, all under the watchful eyes of their dragon-lady mothers.
Prior to World War II, Chinatowns were "depraved colonies of prostitutes, gamblers and opium addicts bereft of decency." But in 1943, about the time they were opening the Japanese internment camps, the U.S. government had a change of heart and actually repealed the Chinese Exclusion Acts of 1882 and 1892 which barred immigrant Chinese living in America from becoming American citizens, restricted new immigration from China, and required U.S. citizens of Chinese extraction to carry ID, least they be arrested and deported.
(At least they didn’t propose to build a wall along the Pacific seacoast -- to be paid for by China, of course.
)
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2012
I know you meant no harm, MM, but pls don't get me started on the topic of the internment camps ...
.I don't mean as a language thing. I mean just the topic in general.
(I have both Japanese and Chinese blood.)
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
I think you should not blame the boss too much. She has the responsibility for ensuring mutual respect in the workplace, and for establishing uniform rules of conduct for everyone.
If some jolly jokester put a noose on a black coworkers desk -- no, that's not Kosher, even if the particular black person felt, "oh, ha ha, a noose, how witty."
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2012
Not going to go into detail, but I can assure you that the joke in my case was a microscopic drop in a bucket compared to a noose.
[BTW, how apt to use the word "kosher" in this conversation. And I hasten to assure one and all that I am not mocking anyone or anything belonging to the Jewish faith. My blood nephews are Jewish. Multicultural 'R' Us.
]And going back to an earlier comment in the thread from Doris that I forgot to address:
I can assure everyone also that I thoroughly agree that words and language are living things that can change over time.
In fact, I was a rare voice making that very same point in a recent GS discussion in another thread.
Regarding that discussion, my view was that it is possible for words to evolve beyond negative origins from years/decades/centuries ago. Almost everyone disagreed with me.
And I do believe that words can and do take on new connotations that are negative. In the particular examples discussed today, my opinion is that a two-way street is responsible for the negativity.
... Anyway....I find it a tad funny that I went to the "Oriental Express"today for kung pao chicken. This topic came up in Liza's thread and Sandpiper who is Asian did not find offense in the term similar to Golden. I was raised that that term is non offense when referring to items like spices, foods, tea, etc.... but was improper to describe people. Until GS I had no idea it was considered a slur or had negative connotation to it
It's funny to me too that you visited the restaurant of that name today of all days
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- Joined
- Feb 10, 2014
Wow I think this is one of the most interesting discussions ice read on GS.
@golden411, not sure how long ago the event you recounted took place, but these days a company could easily be sued for leaving up anything that could possibly be seen as offensive to a particular race, gender, religion, etc. on the grounds that it created a hostile work environment. Even if you personally didn't find it offensive, the fear would be that someone else - a coworker, client or member of the public - would.
@golden411, not sure how long ago the event you recounted took place, but these days a company could easily be sued for leaving up anything that could possibly be seen as offensive to a particular race, gender, religion, etc. on the grounds that it created a hostile work environment. Even if you personally didn't find it offensive, the fear would be that someone else - a coworker, client or member of the public - would.
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2013
It's funny to me too that you visited the restaurant of that name today of all days
Well I go there all the time so while it's a coincidence it's like my favorite take out. They know me by name and usually think I'm getting sesame chicken whenever I walk thru the door. I'm getting better with the chop sticks although it takes me forever. Actually a food tip I gave to someone once was since they were trying to shed a few pounds I suggested to eat only with chop sticks because it slows you down so much you end up getting full before you scarf the whole thing down. Probably due to drinking more water which I also suggested but still. Anyway.....I've run way of course here
Here is another stupid question. Why don't people skate to Neil Diamond songs? I was at a friends house who has a weird hipster obsession with Neil and I kept thinking....man this would be good stuff to skate a SP too. Maybe my mind is just a bit off but I think it would be pretty cool.
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- Joined
- Nov 24, 2006
Yeah, that's basically what I've learned along the way. "Asian" encompasses it, but there are many Asian countries that do not have "Asian" looking people. I'm not really sure WHY calling someone Oriental is so offensive.... But to go along is to get along. I'm part Native American, though you'd never know from looking at me, my Mom for sure, but I never understood this fight to rename baseball and football teams that have Native American 'slurs'. Huh? Lighten up. If someone is actively trying to be hurtful, fine, have a cow. But if it is just an innocent difference of vocabulary, why feign such horror and indignation? Just say "I do not like to be referred to as Oriental, no biggie, but please don't call me that in my presence". End of story.
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2006
One word: Kerrigan.
I love Neil Diamond, and Adam skated a wonderful SP to "Dear Father" many years ago. But Nancy kind of ruined it for me in terms of skating to Neil.
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2012
Sorry for bailing out of the conversation last night. I had to go out.
Great summary, Liam. And a great attitude to have.
By the way, after you mentioned that you have Native American blood in you, it started me thinking. Does anybody know what Naomi Lang is up to these days?
Hadn't noticed it before, but yeah, you're right! And he has so many brilliant songs.
But, just thinking about it, a lot of his best known songs are ones that you can't help but sing along to:
"Sweet Caroline"
"Cracklin' Rosie"
"Longfellow Serenade"
"I Am... I Said"
"Forever In Blue Jeans"
"America"
"I'm a Believer" (although, I have to admit, I always preferred the cover by The Monkees)
So, maybe that puts the skaters/choreographers off, as they think it would be too distracting if the spectators were joining in!
Adam - is this the one you are thinking of? (2009 TEB SP)
As for Nancy, yeah the off-ice story does really put you off thinking about '94. But, when you put that aside, it was still a great routine! (1994 Olympics FS)
CaroLiza_fan
Great summary, Liam. And a great attitude to have.
By the way, after you mentioned that you have Native American blood in you, it started me thinking. Does anybody know what Naomi Lang is up to these days?
Hadn't noticed it before, but yeah, you're right! And he has so many brilliant songs.
But, just thinking about it, a lot of his best known songs are ones that you can't help but sing along to:
"Sweet Caroline"
"Cracklin' Rosie"
"Longfellow Serenade"
"I Am... I Said"
"Forever In Blue Jeans"
"America"
"I'm a Believer" (although, I have to admit, I always preferred the cover by The Monkees)
So, maybe that puts the skaters/choreographers off, as they think it would be too distracting if the spectators were joining in!
Adam - is this the one you are thinking of? (2009 TEB SP)
As for Nancy, yeah the off-ice story does really put you off thinking about '94. But, when you put that aside, it was still a great routine! (1994 Olympics FS)
CaroLiza_fan
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- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
Sweet Caroline would go down well in Boston most years. With worlds in Boston this year, you would think someone would have used it. Neil Simon without lyrics is kind of deadly. This is only the second year for singles to be able to use lyrics. Perhaps Neil Simon will be used more now that they are allowed.
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2012
"Neil Simon"
Don't you just love auto-correct!
Seriously, though, it would be great to hear Neil Diamond music used. We've already heard his music used without vocals, and it was great. So, it would be interesting to see what it would be like with the vocals (not that I have been converted to being in favour of vocals, mind!)
CaroLiza_fan
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
:No, I don't love auto correct at all.
Bestemianova, it wants to be Histrionics
for one thing. and misspelled Diamond came out Simon...You might want to read Ernest "Gilly" Gilman's story:
http://www.mohegan.nsn.us/heritage/pipe-carrier-ernest-gilman-memorial
Calling somebody "chief" or "Cochise" was no big deal at home in CT, but he found it was quite different at Navy bootcamp in the Great Lakes.
Just because you are not offended by something does not mean someone else will not be. They are not manufacturing or "feigning" their indignation.
But I agree one should not assume that everyone should automatically be born knowing what offends you. Telling someone politely is indeed the thing to do.
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- Joined
- Oct 25, 2012
No, I don't love auto correct at all.
Bestemianova, it wants to be Histrionics
Bestemianova > Histrionics. How on Earth do they work that one out?! Like, the words are not anything like each other! At least "Simon" does resemble "Diamond" a bit, so it is easy to work out how they got that...
Although it was a well-intentioned idea, auto-correct is an absolute curse. Especially for those of us that have interests that involve words and names from languages other than English. Such as figure skating!
All I can say is thank goodness auto-correct is not the default setting on Word any more. I dread to think how long it would take to make out Fan Fests if you were having to manually un-do every "correction" the software decided to make to foreign names and words...
CaroLiza_fan
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2006
YES!!! I must have watched Rippon's SP at least 50 times. So much there, so much potential... But of course if I really like a skater, it's the kiss of death to their competitive aspirations!!!
Another Neil Diamond number that I've probably watched a million times is Brian Orser skating to "The Story of My Life". : https://youtu.be/APVBE0qKJ4s
Just gorgeous skating, and another one I rooted for.
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2012
Wow! What an interesting story! (the whole thing about him)
And what an awful story! (the story on the "Military Career" page, which you are referring to)
It is a disgrace that he was discriminated against in the first place. But that it happened because somebody overheard his mate referring to him by a particular word. A word that was obviously being used as a term of endearment. Shocking! :shocked:
But, being from where I am, I know how careful you have to be about what you say and do when in certain places. So, I am not totally surprised that this happened. :disapp:
I really hope that things are not like this now.
CaroLiza_fan
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2015
I was lurking through some of the older posts on this fun thread and had to bring this one back. I guess the stuff the other poster was smoking wasn't that strong after all!!!!
