Elena Ilinykh & Ruslan Zhiganshin

[Alba]

They beat Shibutanis in the FD when Shibutanis themselves had serious mistakes.

I was talking about the SD. They beat Shibutanis on the SD at worlds when skating very early (although by not much at all and Shibs had a slightly better TES as well), both having a clean skate and no levels lost.

And at Worlds Shibutanis also lost two levels on their lift. If not for that, their FD score would have been over 104 instead of 102.71 they got. Even cleanly executed twizzles with higher GOE and PCS would not have made up the difference from 95.38 I/Z got (clean level 4 twizzles would mean + 2 points on the base value, around 1.20 on GOE, and probably an added point or two in PCS which would result in a score of 99.58 or 100.58 points - not enough to beat Shibutanis even with their 102.71 points). Which doesn't mean that Elena and Ruslan can't beat them now, of course.

Shibutanis lost 2 levels on their lift but got all positive GoE's. I&Z not only lost 2 levels but also got all negative GoE's, three -1 and six -2. The Shibs got 50.61 on TES, I&Z got 45.06. I&Z got 3.75 on their Twz instead of let's say 7.80, like in the SD at least, and you have 4.06 less on Twz. So, 45.06+4.06=49,12 total TES. They got 51.32 PCS which is a total score of 100.44, without any "added point of or two in PCS", as you think. Now, who's to say how much they would've got with a clean skate? We don't know, but most probably more and possibly beating the Shibs. Why do I think that? I was 100& sure before competition started - and I wrote this on FSU before ID competition - that I&Z could not beat the Shibs (if both went clean) with that FD. I could see them beating them in the SD but not on the FD. However, the PCS they got (just 1 point less than the Shibs, and more than 2 points than the G&P) even with the mistake and with some low GoE's after that mistake, makes me believe that was totally possible. I'm really sorry they made that mistake but I'm glad they didn't beat the Shibs on that portion because that program didn't deserve it. Not that the Shibs had a masterpiece themselves. It was dull but not a generic crap.
Also, in a way it was too early for I&Z to become a target. Although that never prevents haters. :sarcasm:

 

[Duality]

I was talking about the SD. They beat Shibutanis on the SD at worlds when skating very early (although by not much at all and Shibs had a slightly better TES as well), both having a clean skate and no levels lost.

As I remember Shibs lost levels in their SD because of the error in dance hold.

 

[Alba]

As I remember Shibs lost levels in their SD because of the error in dance hold.

Nope they didn't. Check the protocols. Same base value with I&Z and even slightly higher on the GoE's. I&Z TES 34.95, Shibs TES 35.26. I don't remember any error from the Shibs but if you say so than they were overscored, then.

 

[Barb]

Nope they didn't. Check the protocols. Same base value with I&Z and even slightly higher on the GoE's. I&Z TES 34.95, Shibs TES 35.26. I don't remember any error from the Shibs but if you say so than they were overscored, then.

Yes, they did a mistake at dance hold that was very difficult to see for camera´s angle but judges see it.

 

[Alba]

Yes, they did a mistake at dance hold that was very difficult to see for camera´s angle but judges see it.

Really? So these protocols I suppose are fake then? http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2015/wc2015_IceDance_SD_Scores.pdf
They got all kp on the pattern and the partial. Same levels as I&Z (same levels as in 4CC, their best) but better GoE's and better TES. What dance hold are you talking about?

 

[Barb]

Sorry, it was the Partial step sequence. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7vixbumu-M min 2:50 they lost hand contact. I don´t know exactly what is needed to get level four but back then people said they lost a level because that mistake.

 

[MK's Winter]

Really? So these protocols I suppose are fake then? http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2015/wc2015_IceDance_SD_Scores.pdf They got all kp on the pattern and the partial. Same levels as I&Z (same levels as in 4CC, their best) but better GoE's and better TES. What dance hold are you talking about?

Alba- this is why I am in love with you. In a total platonic skating way of course.

#RuslenaGonnaSlay

 

[Alba]

Sorry, it was the Partial step sequence. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7vixbumu-M min 2:50 they lost hand contact. I don´t know exactly what is needed to get level four but back then people said they lost a level because that mistake.

Now I understand. You meant that they were going for a level 4 but because of this they lost one level. Well, that could be said for other couples also, then. They go for a higher level and they don't get it, whether because there is stumble or a not clean turn etc. The thing is that the Shibs didn't get a level 4 during the whole season (not even at the US Nationals) and If I'm not mistaken it rarely happened to the top 3 couples also (P&C never got it actually but C&L, C&B and W&P did at Worlds).

Anway, about the level. I don't think you lose a level for that reason only, otherwise I&Z would've got a level 4 since they didn't lose contact.

I have some documents among my favorites, if you want to read them, but Doris or somebody else, might know much better or have more info. at hand.
The Technical Handbook: http://static.isu.org/media/156286/handbook-for-technical-panels-2014.pdf
http://static.isu.org/media/143529/...l-rules-ongoing-validity-as-of-july1_2014.pdf
http://static.isu.org/media/156266/handbook-for-referees-and-judges-2014.pdf

 

[Barb]

Now I understand. You meant that they were going for a level 4 but because of this they lost one level. Well, that could be said for other couples also, then. They go for a higher level and they don't get it, whether because there is stumble or a not clean turn etc. The thing is that the Shibs didn't get a level 4 during the whole season (not even at the US Nationals) and If I'm not mistaken it rarely happened to the top 3 couples also (P&C never got it actually but C&L, C&B and W&P did at Worlds).

Anway, about the level. I don't think you lose a level for that reason only, otherwise I&Z would've got a level 4 since they didn't lose contact.

I have some documents among my favorites, if you want to read them, but Doris or somebody else, might know much better or have more info. at hand.
The Technical Handbook: http://static.isu.org/media/156286/handbook-for-technical-panels-2014.pdf
http://static.isu.org/media/143529/...l-rules-ongoing-validity-as-of-july1_2014.pdf
http://static.isu.org/media/156266/handbook-for-referees-and-judges-2014.pdf

But all teams who got the key points (YYY) got level four, I/Z (I don´t know why) did not TYY. Shibs mistake was very evident considering the angle of the judges, the most logical is they lost a level because that mistake. But I think I understand your point, I/Z did a mistake and won the segment over Shibs who did a mistake too, and more merit because they were a new couple.

 

[Snow63]

Anway, about the level. I don't think you lose a level for that reason only, otherwise I&Z would've got a level 4 since they didn't lose contact.

I have some documents among my favorites, if you want to read them, but Doris or somebody else, might know much better or have more info. at hand.
The Technical Handbook: http://static.isu.org/media/156286/handbook-for-technical-panels-2014.pdf
http://static.isu.org/media/143529/...l-rules-ongoing-validity-as-of-july1_2014.pdf
http://static.isu.org/media/156266/handbook-for-referees-and-judges-2014.pdf

:thumbsup:

 

[Spiral]

I'm also so excited about this news! This looks like the perfect event to open a new season - a real competition, but quite winnable. Wishing them all the very best!

Alba, I also love reading your posts! They help me understand the technical side of ice dancing and generally put things in perspective.

 

[Snow63]

I hope Sisinka will be back at the beginning of the Seniors GP. I really enjoyed to read her tech analysis, it's very educational

 

[Alba]

But all teams who got the key points (YYY) got level four, I/Z (I don´t know why) did not TYY. Shibs mistake was very evident considering the angle of the judges, the most logical is they lost a level because that mistake.

Probably you're right. As much as I try to read and see videos understanding levels in ID is very difficult but if G&P could get a level 4 I could definitely see Shibs get a level 5, if that existed. No offence to G&P but IMO they are way behind these two teams in terms of skating and technique.

Alba, I also love reading your posts! They help me understand the technical side of ice dancing and generally put things in perspective.

Thanks Spiral. Happy to help although I'm not very well prepared tbh. I try to understand but it's not so easy. Doris, sisinka and Uhh are much better with these things.

We wanted to do with Doris a kind of ID lesson this summer. I talked with technical specialist in ID as well asking him if he could help us explain some things and he liked the idea. I think Doris has been too busy though. Pity because I would've liked that very much before the competition starts.

 

[alithia]

Are we talking about the partial step sequence? Cause I/Z had TYY and level 3, Shibs had level 3 and YYY,he lost touch at that moment so a strict tech.specialist could give them level 3 but all in all, they and I/Z scored exactly the same points, and their GOE except for a 0 was positive.Now a really strict specialist could also give them a negative GOE for it but they didn't. Apparently I/Z also did a mistake at one of the key points with timing, so both teams had a mistake in the partial step sequence. I/Z at Euros had managed to get level 4,so one could also argue that they were also going for level 4. But the fact remains both teams didn't get level 3.

 

[Tanka]

New cover pic for the International Figure Skating Magazine at Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/figureskat...520176.278550292537/10154143128157538/?type=1

 

[paravolar]

I think they will still go to Saransk.

Firstly, it's Kustarova who announced it, and she doesn't seem the kind of person to talk about things that she isn't sure about. We still don't know who was their first choice to choreograph the SD, because they refused to speak about things that weren't certain. Good for them, I respect that (although I'd love to know who s/he was and why they had to change their original plans ).

Secondly, this competition is new and they need skaters who were Top 10 at Worlds to attract more valuable entries.

Thirdly, they need the points.

Right now, they say they will have participants from 10-15 countries (if I understood correctly).

https://vk.com/minsportrm?w=wall-35799477_6329

 

[chameleon]

I thought Averbukh was choreographing, but his schedule didn't work out. I think Arapov was always helping to some degree, but I think Averbukh was going to be helping too.

And plans can change. If they go to Saransk, they will be competing every 2-3 weeks from the start of October to the end of December(assuming they get into GPF). That could get quite tiring. It may be that they'll make a decision after Nepela, or the test skates or something. They need the ranking points, yes, but do they need it more than rest and training time? I honestly have no clue. Only Kustarova probably knows what's best for them right now.

 

[paravolar]

I thought Averbukh was choreographing, but his schedule didn't work out. I think Arapov was always helping to some degree, but I think Averbukh was going to be helping too.

I don't know, you may be right, but I don't think it was Averbukh. This is from Lena's interview in June (I looked it up ):

Q: Who is going to choreograph your new dances?
A: Antonio Najarro did the free dance, and the short is going to be choreographed by one of the leading choreographers in the world. But I cannot yet show our hand. We have not yet started working on choreography.

I really don't see Averbukh as one of the leading choregraphers in the world. And he wouldn't have been such a big surprise, considering that he did their FD last season.

 

[chameleon]

No, what I meant was that "leading choreographer" was always Arapov, but Averbukh was originally helping too. I think Averbukh got them in touch with Arapov since he's choreographed for Averbukh's shows.

 

[uhh]

IA chameleon - Averbukh was going to have some involvement, but I guess the Carmen shows took up too much of his time. But he knows Arapov from the SYTYCD Russia shows - Averbukh is a producer - and I wouldn't be surprised if he was always going to be involved in some capacity, but just ended up having a bigger role once it became clear Ilia's schedule wouldn't work.