Elena Ilinykh & Ruslan Zhiganshin

[bramweld]

Well, I was a bit worried when I heard she was so full of praise towards IZ, and Frida in particular, in MO. :scratch3:She didn't sound herself. Now I know she's okay.

Help me, just help me :agree::dumb:

 

[Alba]

Can't worry about her. To me she is ice dancing's equivalent of the wicked witch of the west. I just wait for her to melt.

TBH I always loved her and I will always do. I have the utmost respect for her as a coach. She's so predictable in these things though that I don't get angry with her. I find her very funny instead.

 

[Marta25]

I`m now waiting for her declaring S/B as the new #1 after TEB

This at least answers the question if she is going to politick for I/Z.

 

[Bumdid]

Tarasova speaking about IZ, CL, Shibutanis, S&K and BS
She has changed her mind already.

Tarasova is the biggest bandwagon fans lbr. If the I/Z did well at COR, she'll be singing praises for them again :yay:

 

[Alba]

Tarasova is the biggest bandwagon fans lbr. If the I/Z did well at COR, she'll be singing praises for them again :yay:

I know, I know. That's why I don't get angry with her.

 

[sunn1ly]

According to me maybe she wanted to say that IZ just didn't manage to peform the best way possible their FD and thet CL performed it better ( not that CL is better than IZ and CB which were not even mentioned). And she also meant (attention) that prince charming and his stand-still-look-pretty princess (had soooo much time for practise that they) performed it the best way they can (and this is the maximum they can take from their programms) and they obviously improved from last year( taking already learnt programms and combining it - they are so 'umnitsi' (is that the word in russian?) clever). BS also did not manage to show the best that they can. But this is just my interpretation of her words .

But there is one thing that I agree that shibs are a factor in the Ice dance this year if the judges judge them accordingly.
And TAT can not become a good politician since she doesn't know how to praise all her couples. She is taking sides belittleling the work of the others and making the judges taking them lightly.

 

[bramweld]

According to me maybe she wanted to say that IZ just didn't manage to peform the best way possible their FD and thet CL performed it better ( not that CL is better than IZ and CB which were not even mentioned). And she also meant (attention) that prince charming and his stand-still-look-pretty princess (had soooo much time for practise that they) performed it the best way they can (and this is the maximum they can take from their programms) and they obviously improved from last year( taking already learnt programms and combining it - they are so 'umnitsi' (is that the word in russian?) clever). BS also did not manage to show the best that they can. But this is just my interpretation of her words .

But there is one thing that I agree that shibs are a factor in the Ice dance this year if the judges judge them accordingly.
And TAT can not become a good politician since she doesn't know how to praise all her couples. She is taking sides belittleling the work of the others and making the judges taking them lightly.

How ironic, Peter T. did the choreo for the Shibs and W/P. And if I were a betting man he himself is going laud the efforts of these pairs and trash their own teams in the press, with the exception of his personal favourites of course. At best these Russian experts TAT included although I respect their talent their politics is laughable at best. They haven't the slightest clue how to groom or support their own. They respect only one thing, instant success. They will hold their tongues however, if you are tall, blond, rail thin, blue eyed and you work with M. Zueva.

 

[Alba]

According to me maybe she wanted to say that IZ just didn't manage to peform the best way possible their FD and thet CL performed it better.

I don't have any problems with that. It's just that her words about the program, Frida (but not only Frida. She spoke well about the SD also while here she seems to have a problem), per se were very tepid compared with her own words and reaction she had at MO. It's another thing saying for example: Frida is a great or beautiful program but they didn't skate it well here, and totally another saying: I don't think Frida is a bad program. It's good. While calling other programs, CL and Shibs, stunning and so enthusiastic about them. It's the little nuances and the choice of words that makes the difference and tells you what she actually said.
I'm not saying that she has to like IZ programs, mind you, but it was her who spoke very well about their choice for Frida even before the season started, and was so in awe with them in MO.


p.s. By the way I like the Shibs very much and I like their programs. I'm happy that she spent good words for them, for once, and yet I'm 100% convinced that she spent those words only because Peter is their choreographer.

 

[bramweld]

I don't have any problems with that. It's just that her words about the program, Frida, per se were very tepid compared with her own words and reaction she had at MO. It's another thing saying for example: Frida is a great or beautiful program but they didn't skate it well here, and totally another saying: I don't think Frida is a bad program. It's good. While calling other programs, CL and Shibs, stunning and so enthusiastic about them (by the way I like Shibs very much and I like their programs). It's the little nuances and the choice of words that makes the difference and tells you what she actually said.
I'm not saying that she has to like IZ programs, mind you, but it was her who spoke very well about their choice for Frida even before the season started, and was so in awe with them in MO.

She must be part reptilian, she can change like no other. Alba is right, her words are very damning and condescending. Oh Lord, give I/Z the strength to perform at their full potential come COR. Amen!!

 

[bramweld]

I don't have any problems with that. It's just that her words about the program, Frida, per se were very tepid compared with her own words and reaction she had at MO. It's another thing saying for example: Frida is a great or beautiful program but they didn't skate it well here, and totally another saying: I don't think Frida is a bad program. It's good. While calling other programs, CL and Shibs, stunning and so enthusiastic about them. It's the little nuances and the choice of words that makes the difference and tells you what she actually said.
I'm not saying that she has to like IZ programs, mind you, but it was her who spoke very well about their choice for Frida even before the season started, and was so in awe with them in MO.


p.s. By the way I like the Shibs very much and I like their programs. I'm happy that she spent good words for them, for once, and yet I'm 100% convinced that she spent those words only because Peter is their choreographer.

In part, but more importantly once it comes out of the Zueva stable it will be fantabulous. Nobody need argue with me about conspiracy theories regarding the lack of GENUINE support for I/Z within certain circles. They themselves reveal all from the first word to the last.

 

[Alba]

In part, but more importantly once it comes out of the Zueva stable it will be fantabulous.

Well yeah, Zoueva it's her queen. Nothing new there.

Nobody need argue with me about conspiracy theories regarding the lack of GENUINE support for I/Z within certain circles. They themselves reveal all from the first word to the last.

True. But as long as they have the FED's support, and IMO they do have it, the rest it's a minor problem. They need to step up though and skate without mistakes and skate at their best. This season it's not make it or break it thing in regards with their future, obviously. There are still 2 seasons till the Olympics but it's a very important season for them in order to establish themselves as serious and strong contenders.

 

[bramweld]

Well yeah, Zoueva it's her queen. Nothing new there.

Shakes my head in utter disbelief as to the callousness of this sport sometimes. Just have to. In other countries, they would be so proud of all their teams and be wiling to support them all respectfully. Something like this an American or Canadian expert would never say about say H/B or any other up and coming team, never. But say what we applaud them for they Russian lack of PC, but I think it does more harm than good to the team.

 

[bramweld]

Well yeah, Zoueva it's her queen. Nothing new there.



True. But as long as they have the FED's support, and IMO they do have it, the rest it's a minor problem. They need to step up though and skate without mistakes and skate at their best. This season it's not a big deal for their future. It's 2 seasons before Olympics but it's a very important season for them in order to establish themselves as serious and strong contenders.

Agreed with this 100%. Hoping that it happens for them, like it did last year.

 

[Alba]

In other countries, they would be so proud of all their teams and be wiling to support them all respectfully. Something like this an American or Canadian expert would never say about say H/B or any other up and coming team, never.

So true! That's something I envy them for.

But say what we applaud them for they Russian lack of PC, but I think it does more harm than good to the team.

I love that about the Russians but this is not lack of PC, IMO. This is an inside war, and a dirty one. In order to survive you either need to have a big political support&PR, and even then you need to skate good, or you need to be perfect and the best. Leave no doubt that even the haters can't deny your bravura. There are no middle grounds.

 

[tulosai]

I love that about the Russians but this is not lack of PC, IMO. This is an inside war, and a dirty one. In order to survive you either need to have a big political support&PR, and even then you need to skate good, or you need to be perfect and the best. Leave no doubt that even the haters can't deny your bravura. There are no middle grounds.

:agree: Absolutely correct, unfortunately.

 

[bramweld]

:agree: Absolutely correct, unfortunately.

As my mother always says never put all your eggs in one basket. We all remember what happened to Shabalin, right? This is stupidity at it's highest form and the reason why even if Russia regains its dominance for a few years it will not last as their developmental strategies are highly flawed.

 

[sunn1ly]

I don't have any problems with that. It's just that her words about the program, Frida (but not only Frida. She spoke well about the SD also while here she seems to have a problem), per se were very tepid compared with her own words and reaction she had at MO. It's another thing saying for example: Frida is a great or beautiful program but they didn't skate it well here, and totally another saying: I don't think Frida is a bad program. It's good. While calling other programs, CL and Shibs, stunning and so enthusiastic about them. It's the little nuances and the choice of words that makes the difference and tells you what she actually said.
I'm not saying that she has to like IZ programs, mind you, but it was her who spoke very well about their choice for Frida even before the season started, and was so in awe with them in MO.


p.s. By the way I like the Shibs very much and I like their programs. I'm happy that she spent good words for them, for once, and yet I'm 100% convinced that she spent those words only because Peter is their choreographer.

Don't get me wrong it is me trying (unsuccessfully) to be ironic about the TAT comments. I don't approve her words even when she tried to sound good for their MO performance. I like she knows that there are other teams out there but she is not trying to sell her own but always pricing the good of the day. I don't approve that. And she as specialliest is supposed to be able to weight the promising programms and not turn back on every little stone. I even expected some support on IZ SD where the skate was really on so high level but does not recieved the marks it deserved. But Russian ice skating seems to me like battlefield everybody, instead working against the foregn teams they are just taking advantage if someone fail, because the competition is so intense.
Sometimes I wish that Russia and other advance in the sport countries should be able to send like 5-6 teams(skaters) on worlds or euroes and the best 2 or 3 teams to participate in the final marks just because some pragrams even without the high scoring are real masterpieces and deserve recodnition.

 

[Marta25]

What makes me a little sad is the tepid reaction I/Z got from these experts from day one. They have huge potential and their Frida is amazing, but with the exception of Averbukh, nobody is publicly acknowledging it. Maybe I`m wrong, but it feels like I/Z have to fight much harder for support and respect than other teams.

Anyway, as long as the Fed is behind them, and if we look at I/Z`s PCS, there is no reason to think they lost that, all is fine.

Their performance at CoC wasn`t bad, they didn`t have any major mistake, but they looked more restrained than usual. The PCS for Frida are in the sum similar to what B/S and S/K got, but I/Z received much more scores in the 9s than either of them at their respective GPs. So, I think if they skate well in Russia that mark is only going to go up.

 

[bramweld]

What makes me a little sad is the tepid reaction I/Z got from these experts from day one. They have huge potential and their Frida is amazing, but with the exception of Averbukh, nobody is publicly acknowledging it. Maybe I`m wrong, but it feels like I/Z have to fight much harder for support and respect than other teams.

Anyway, as long as the Fed is behind them, and if we look at I/Z`s PCS, there is no reason to think they lost that, all is fine.

Their performance at CoC wasn`t bad, they didn`t have any major mistake, but they looked more restrained than usual. The PCS for Frida are in the sum similar to what B/S and S/K got, but I/Z received much more scores in the 9s than either of them at their respective GPs. So, I think if they skate well in Russia that mark is only going to go up.

I wouldn't worry about it so. This is just how it is in Russian ID, the kids are used to it. There are certain prejudices and cliques that you can do nothing about. These things are beyond their control, what they can control is how they skate. They need to just focus on what they can do. Because the PR Zueva S/K campaign is going to hit high gear in about eight days. You see how quiet Zhulin and Kustarova are? In my wildest dreams the teams going forward are B/S, I/Z and S/B. Maybe that might teach them to have a bit more respect for fellow Russian teams. Did you not see the look of disgust when Bukin performed at test skates. Did you not see that those two (S/B) took back their split lift and used it a great effect to close their FD? It's going to be a blood bath come nationals, I'd say.

 

[MarieM]

Courtesy of passion patinage, here is what Nathalie said in French. It won't cover the way she said it, but here you do have it all in french at least:

AVANT:
"On a de la chance, on a des programmes très différents "
Alban: "Là aussi, surement un hommage car c'est Frida"
Nat:" Est-ce qu'on parle d'hommage ou de manque d'idées? Je pose la question, j'ai pas forcément la réponse.
C'est difficile de reprendre des programmes qui ont marqué, qui sont encore dans la tête de tous les amoureux du patinage. Il faut amener quelque chose de nouveau, qqchose d'intéressant, sinon, çà n'a pas lieu d'être. Le défi est d'autant plus grand.

PENDANT: RIEN (et merci encore!)

APRES:
Y a beaucoup de caractère et d'intensité dans ce programme, malheureusement pas tenu jusqu'au bout; on sent vraiment une baisse de gatigue à 2mns 30, 3 mns et la dernière minute, on souffre un peu avec eux.
On a l'impression qu'ils manquent de vitesse.
Alors, toujours difficile d'apprécier à travers un écran.
La perte de la petite fleur va couter un point. C'est surprenant de voir qu'elle fait les mêmes portés avec ce partenaire-là et celui de l'an passé.
Perso, je trouve que c'est un programme très ambitieux avec beaucoup de mouvements; il a été monté par Najarro donc forcément, c'est vraiment ce que l'on appelle de la danse sur glace, rien n'est laissé au hasard avec beaucoup de boulot. Il est tellement chargé, ce programme qu'on a du mal à respirer, à tout voir."
Alban: "C'est presque de la gesticulation"
Nat: "çà manque peut être de maitrise; çà va devoir évoluer tout au long de la saison; pour le moment il n'est pas prêt; çà peut être magnifique.
C'est pour çà que la majorité des patineurs vont vers le classique, car c'est plus naturel comme mouvements, on les a plus automatisés corporellement et ce genre de programme, c'est un boulot fou, au niveau de la choré que çà soit au niveau de cette thématique ou une autre, mais dès que c'est racé, çà demande beaucoup de travail.
Il faut s'y prendre tôt, avoir l'idée tôt dans la saison, pour la saison suivante et dès le mois de mai, le travailler pour être prêt en octobre."

And as I said, nothing too harsh, just realistic about where they are in their preparation.