TEB is Cancelled

[TontoK]

I don't think i like this.

Yeah. I'm with you. This smells bad.

If I were one of the higher ranked skaters after the short, I'd be insulted that another federation just took it for granted that their skater would leapfrog me in the long.

AND that they would just expect the other powerful federations to agree.

After all... I've already beaten them once in this competition... who's to say I can't, or won't, do it again? Do they have the fix in?

 

[Winnie_20]

I'm sort of assuming that every 'big' nation can maybe nominate more than one pair or single skater, but in the end only one of every nation would be allowed to go ahead to the GPF. A line would need to be drawn somewhere, after all. ??
Purely from a selfish POV, I'd be happy with this proposal (more skaters at the GPF, fine by me), although of course it does smell... But then, as we say, money stinks.

 

[jagragold]

The fair decision from my POV would be to use the SP results, I think they competed in the same conditions. They had no excuse. Sure it is a pity the top skaters skated badly, but, it's what they did.

 

[leafygreens]

I don't think StitchMonkey was saying the judges were too generous to Rodeghiero - at least that's not what I got from their post. I think what they were saying that the scoring was fair, but if the judges thought only SP results would be used, they may have been less fair because of her lack of reputation and that they would have scored some of the bigger names more generously.

The complaint here is that the judges judged too fairly so we can't use those results? If the judges judged the SP "more fairly" because they thought there would be a FS (which would be inherently unfair), then that's even more of a good case that the SP should be used as the final result. Why would we want SP results based on a hypothetical FS judging to be used?

:thumbsup: I like this! Then they can all skate in the short program and for time sake, TOP 6 can proceed to the free skate!

That's a good idea but then you will have people (again) saying the SP counts for too much.

 

[StitchMonkey]

The complaint here is that the judges judged too fairly so we can't use those results? If the judges judged the SP "more fairly" because they thought there would be a FS (which would be inherently unfair), then that's even more of a good case that the SP should be used as the final result. Why would we want SP results based on a hypothetical FS judging to be used?

No. My issue is that in the future...consciously or subconsciously, they may not score a skater like her as fairly if we keep the results. I don't want judges going into the SP expecting/wanting the people "supposed to" win to be the top three... that it bad enough at all, but at least now we don't see it s much in the SP.

Things have an effect going forward. Once the precedent is set that in an emergency SP stands, i fear more judges might be influenced, again, consciously and/or subconsciously by the what if.

It could change the perception of the SP in a direction I don't like. I like seeing Roberta rewarded for a great skate. I don't want to see it get even harder for skaters like her to break through to the next level. If the use the SP only, i am worried we might see favorites being given even more PCS/GOE shall we say friendless in the SP.

 

[HanDomi]

This sounds to me like a big joke. So maybe we should also let Spain to choose in award who they want as a winner of GPF ?


What it simply means ? Federations will choose skaters that they want to see in GPF or they will destroy ISU with protests if their skaters who bombed during COMPETITION in SP will not make it to GPF.


Awfull in my opinion. This is not sport.

 

[Tavi...]

According to Russian media (it is not declared as official yet) the results of SP are counted as final for TEB. Also ISU will let the main countries represented in GP series (Russia, USA, Canada, China, Japan and France) to come with proposals about who of skaters who underperformed in SP on TEB should get extra invitation to GPF. http://rsport.ru/figure_skating/20151116/879738874.html

Underperformed as compared to what, though? Lets take Patrick. He placed 5th in the SP with a score of 76+. At Skate Canada he scored 80 in the SP but that was good enough for 2d place. If you look at 76 versus 80 that's not really underperforming. Yes he came back and won Skate Canada, but the fact is he didn't have such a great SP score in either outing.

I also think it's problematic if they limit the privilege to major countries. Denis Ten could certainly argue that as the Olympic Bronze medalist he underperformed. But Kazakhstan isn't a major country. And of course, he didn't perform well at Skate America and has a reputation for consistently underperforming in the early season.

 

[cheerknithanson]

Soon enough we'll know what's going to happen. And we know that we can't do anything about it. But I'm willing to agree that whatever the decision will be it'll be for the better.

 

[peg]

The complaint here is that the judges judged too fairly so we can't use those results?

No such argument was ever made or even implied by anybody here

The reasons for saying that the SP scores are not necessarily representative of full competition scores are completely separate from the fairness of the SP judging. StischMonkey was merely commenting on some of the possible implications of using SP scores in this case. Completely separate issues.

Honestly, I don't know how you came to your conclusion based on what has been said.

 

[peg]

I also think it's problematic if they limit the privilege to major countries. Denis Ten could certainly argue that as the Olympic Bronze medalist he underperformed. But Kazakhstan isn't a major country. And of course, he didn't perform well at Skate America and has a reputation for consistently underperforming in the early season.

I think the key point with respect to Denis is that with his placement at SA, even if he had won TEB, he wouldn't have qualified for the GPF.

That said, I agree with your broader point. As I've said before, my preference would be fr them to use the SP as the basis for calculating the points earned, but then allow an extra couple of spots per discipline for the TEB competitors with the 2 next-highest scores to compensate for the inaccuracy of using just SP scores. (And yes, I do think it's inaccurate because some people are stronger SP skaters while others are stronger FS skaters.) This method does not favor skaters from any one federation over another.

 

[karne]

What it simply means ? Federations will choose skaters that they want to see in GPF or they will destroy ISU with protests if their skaters who bombed during COMPETITION in SP will not make it to GPF.

You continually miss the point. The skaters who bombed the SP at TEB are hardly the first skaters to bomb an SP at a GP this season - even your precious Hanyu did it. The difference is that THOSE SKATERS HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO COME BACK. That opportunity is being denied to the skaters at TEB. That is why there is a problem.

 

[eta]

You continually miss the point. The skaters who bombed the SP at TEB are hardly the first skaters to bomb an SP at a GP this season - even your precious Hanyu did it. The difference is that THOSE SKATERS HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO COME BACK. That opportunity is being denied to the skaters at TEB. That is why there is a problem.

TEB skaters don't have a chance to come back because /terrorists happened, and terrorists are not fair/. Life is not fair.

 

[ice coverage]

Piper Gilles: Backstage in Bordeaux

By Piper Gilles
Piper Gilles spoke to IFS about her experience at Trophée Eric Bompard last weekend and how the terrorist attacks in Paris affected the skaters and the locals.
Published: 11/17/15
http://www.ifsmagazine.com/articles/32815-piper-gilles-backstage-in-bordeaux​

She explains the timeline of her first knowledge of the attacks -- and then the changing status re how/whether TEB would proceed.
And she writes about the emotional impact on the skaters.

Excerpt:

We were all extremely sad for Paris. ... The old venue for this competition in Paris was just one subway stop from where some of the attacks took place, so we were very fortunate not to be there.

But we all felt like nothing had been resolved. You don’t want to be upset that you cannot compete when you know that there are things in life that are more important than a skating competition. But it was so unsettling and there were so many mixed emotions.

Julianne and I were talking about we hated to feel so frustrated because there were so many other people in pain and in mourning. But as a competitor, you never want to finish a competition with just one program. It is a bizarre feeling.​

(On Saturday morning before TEB was cancelled, Piper had tweeted a series of touching words, such as: "a bunch of other athletes will stand by me and say we don't just skate for our country today we skate for France and Paris.")

 

[Alex D]

Je prie pour les victimes

First I want to send my condolences to the families and friends who became a victim of these attacks. My friend in Paris is all well and healthy, but it makes you realize what could had happened, she was in the stadium and also plays in Paris, not knowing if she is well, it was a nightmare and minutes became hours.

That the TEB was cancelled is a double edged sword. I have been at several events before, which were cancelled after a terrorist attack, national tragedy or threat. At all times I felt it was wrong to do it, as it would not serve the victims justice. I think the same about TEB, but then again, who wants to skate and make a happy face, if something like that has happened? Even if our friends and families sit on their clouds, waving us, wanting us to continue, it´s not that easy and I am unsure how the skaters and officials felt, especially those from France.

As for the whole discussion about results,

I think it would be unfair to the skaters who performed well, if their results would not count. Look at Gracie, she was the best lady and I am sure, with or without the LP, she would be the well deserved champion. Then again, it would be one of the bitterest gold medals in her career, do you really want to be remembered about winning gold, while Paris was under attack? But then again, our whole world is under attack every minute, we have so many wars going on, even within our own nations people fight and kill each other, should we really bow down to this and let the evil win over the good? We have a right to enjoy our life´s, but it seems to become harder every day, unless we just ignore what happens around us and honestly, don´t we already do this? How many of you still read the news about Syria, how many remember the bombs at Gaza, the dead refugees in the water, the homeless on the street, or the screaming neighbor who got beaten by her husband again?

It´s just a tragedy, if you let these things get to close, they can destroy you, so that many humans will become a cold hearted vessel in the process.

So what is the right decision now? Honestly, I do not know. My personal opinion is to just do the event at some other place in Europe, finish it and collect money at the exhibition for the families who lost someone. But if this can and will happen, I don´t know. It might be impossible to get all the skaters together and find a venue, but yes, I think that the skaters deserve a result, a result with short and long program.

Je prie pour les victimes

 

[cheerknithanson]

Now I realize we maybe should step back and think why we're talking about all the suggestions: Of a horrible act carried out that none of us nor skaters had any control of. And I'm not sure if something like this has happened before, but this definitely is something that the ISU is trying to figure out long and hard. This all happened because of a horrible act of violence that was none of our or the skaters' faults. Hopefully this is the last time this ever has to be done. I'm trying to write something more....I don't know the word, but in a way, trying to have us step back and realize stuff.

 

[karne]

But we all felt like nothing had been resolved. You don’t want to be upset that you cannot compete when you know that there are things in life that are more important than a skating competition. But it was so unsettling and there were so many mixed emotions.

Julianne and I were talking about we hated to feel so frustrated because there were so many other people in pain and in mourning. But as a competitor, you never want to finish a competition with just one program. It is a bizarre feeling.

Bolding by me because I think it's important.

Now I realize we maybe should step back and think why we're talking about all the suggestions: Of a horrible act carried out that none of us nor skaters had any control of. And I'm not sure if something like this has happened before, but this definitely is something that the ISU is trying to figure out long and hard. This all happened because of a horrible act of violence that was none of our or the skaters' faults. Hopefully this is the last time this ever has to be done. I'm trying to write something more....I don't know the word, but in a way, trying to have us step back and realize stuff.

My dear, everyone on this forum is well aware of WHY we're talking about this, that there was a horrible atrocity carried out in Paris in which many innocent people died. And we could hardly forget, with people liking to act as though those who want to talk about GPF qualification are heartless cold creatures.

But if I did not come here, to talk about the GPF qualification, to debate back and forth what should be done, then what would I be doing? Unable to do anything but weep over the evil in this world. I know why we are having this discussion. I know that the unfairness of using the SP result as final pales in comparison to the horror and pain felt across Paris now. But that people were murdered by evil does not automatically mean that I cannot be unhappy about anything else in the world like a sporting event. If we do not continue on with our lives, then the evil has won.

 

[cheerknithanson]

Bolding by me because I think it's important.



My dear, everyone on this forum is well aware of WHY we're talking about this, that there was a horrible atrocity carried out in Paris in which many innocent people died. And we could hardly forget, with people liking to act as though those who want to talk about GPF qualification are heartless cold creatures.

But if I did not come here, to talk about the GPF qualification, to debate back and forth what should be done, then what would I be doing? Unable to do anything but weep over the evil in this world. I know why we are having this discussion. I know that the unfairness of using the SP result as final pales in comparison to the horror and pain felt across Paris now. But that people were murdered by evil does not automatically mean that I cannot be unhappy about anything else in the world like a sporting event. If we do not continue on with our lives, then the evil has won.

I apologize if I came off as ignorant.

 

[Sorrento]

Underperformed as compared to what, though? Lets take Patrick. He placed 5th in the SP with a score of 76+. At Skate Canada he scored 80 in the SP but that was good enough for 2d place. If you look at 76 versus 80 that's not really underperforming. Yes he came back and won Skate Canada, but the fact is he didn't have such a great SP score in either outing.

I also think it's problematic if they limit the privilege to major countries. Denis Ten could certainly argue that as the Olympic Bronze medalist he underperformed. But Kazakhstan isn't a major country. And of course, he didn't perform well at Skate America and has a reputation for consistently underperforming in the early season.

I understand that for some the idea that was taken as a basis for decision making is questionnable. But they had to take decision in force majeur situation and in a very short time. I understand that no matter what decision will be taken it would be debatable and appear not to be fair to sport, small Federations, fans, etc. But the decision is out of our hands and they do realise they can't make everyone happy, it is impossible. They have to work in a most cost and time effective way.
I think that this precedent will be analised in perspective, something that we can't do now. Only time will tell if their decision was wrong or the only possible to be taken at this day and time.
As per underperforming... this sport is so unpredictible. I mean- I try to do predictions based on my experience and athletes previous seasons results- and they never work out, never. You never know what miracles those who failed in SP can produce a day later. I don't know what LP result could any of the athletes shown if the competitions were not cancelled given the terrorist attacks.
As per Denis Ten- let us see how it works for him, I am actually curious if he would get the invitation to GPF.

 

[Sorrento]

(On Saturday morning before TEB was cancelled, Piper had tweeted a series of touching words, such as: "a bunch of other athletes will stand by me and say we don't just skate for our country today we skate for France and Paris.")

This is why they should have been allowed to complete the competition, all of them. It is so unfair that they could not.

 

[Rissa]

But Denis underperformed in in SA as well, and there was no snowball's chance in hell for him to make GPF. I can understand the argument about Aaron who won his previous GP but Denis?