2015-16 State of Russian Ladies skating

[andyjo24]

Have you seen her live? People who have seen her live at 4CC said her jumps look bigger than what we see on screen so what we see might be different than what the judges see having the skaters in front of them.

Her jumps may look bigger live, but then you gotta think relative. Other skaters that already have huge jumps on TV are going to have jumps that look GINORMOUS live. Yet they get around the same or even less GOE than Satoko.....

That is the problem that should be discussed. The system is supposed to reward skaters for what they're good at, yet it's marking skaters with considerably different jump height, rotation, and distance as the same.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Have you seen her live?

Out of curiousity have you? Many of her fans try to silence her critics by saying they are not experts and they don't know more than the professional judges or fans who have seen her live yet....those same fans criticize the judges ability to score PCS every single time she takes the ice. The "Satoko is underscored" movement is 100% the only reason I started to make jumpamatrons to show that her BV is being over scored far more than her PCS could ever be underscored.

FWIW I have experience in filming skaters jump (seeing it live) and editing real life jumpamatrons and it's always been my experience that the jumps look bigger on video especially when slowed down to 220 fps. The naked eye is a very unreliable thing.

 

[moriel]

Out of curiousity have you? Many of her fans try to silence her critics by saying they are not experts and they don't know more than the professional judges or fans who have seen her live yet....those same fans criticize the judges PCS every single time she takes the ice. The "Satoko is underscored" movement is 100% the only reason I started to make jumpamatrons to show that her BV is being over scored far more than her PCS could ever be underscored.

FWIW I have experience in filming skaters jump (seeing it live) and editing real life jumpamatrons and it's always been my experience that the jumps look bigger on video especially when slowed down to 220 fps. The naked eye is a very unreliable thing.

Maybe a fun jumpamatron would be to put together jumps from different skaters?
For example, take someone who has textbook jumps, no pre or under rotation, correct edges etc etc etc, find some similar angles, and put together as comparison (this is how the skater does it, this is how it should be done)?
May be tricky though, and not sure if the result would be worth is =S

 

[ioanna]

Out of curiousity have you? Many of her fans try to silence her critics by saying they are not experts and they don't know more than the professional judges or fans who have seen her live yet....those same fans criticize the judges ability to score PCS every single time she takes the ice. The "Satoko is underscored" movement is 100% the only reason I started to make jumpamatrons to show that her BV is being over scored far more than her PCS could ever be underscored.

FWIW I have experience in filming skaters jump (seeing it live) and editing real life jumpamatrons and it's always been my experience that the jumps look bigger on video especially when slowed down to 220 fps. The naked eye is a very unreliable thing.

I was just responding to Skater Boy's claim that her jumps are barely getting off the ground? I didn't comment anything about her rotations in that post. And no, I haven't seen anyone live because I can't afford it, it's pretty clear in the wording of my post:

People who have seen her live at 4CC said her jumps look bigger than what we see on screen so what we see might be different than what the judges see

So I was asking Skater Boy if he saw her skating live to be able to say that her jumps barely get off the ground.

Your jumpamatrons are very helpful indeed, but on the other hand they started a big haterade that has spread everywhere outside this forum with a lot of people criticizing just because others are doing it. In this case, having not seen her live, I don't know who to believe unless I ask them: have you seen her live so you can claim that her jumps look like "twizzles" or are you just part of those who take other people's words and post as if you were there yourself?

The 4CC reports I have read on twitter and tumblr were from people who are not Satoko fans "trying to silence her critics". They were just people who were genuinely surprised that her jumps looked bigger in person and that they weren't distracting from the program at all because she has many other qualities to her skating.

So just by reading YouTube comments lately I can assure you that nobody has the power to silence her critics anymore, not since other "critics" have joined just for the sake of hating, posting disrespectful things and not bringing valid arguments. Anyway, this thread is for Russian ladies so that's all I'm going to post here before other posters get annoyed again.

 

[OniBan]

Maybe a fun jumpamatron would be to put together jumps from different skaters?
For example, take someone who has textbook jumps, no pre or under rotation, correct edges etc etc etc, find some similar angles, and put together as comparison (this is how the skater does it, this is how it should be done)?
May be tricky though, and not sure if the result would be worth is =S

I want to see Ashley's jumps in slow-mo! Kurt Browning said she has good technique

 

[moriel]

I was just responding to Skater Boy's claim that her jumps are barely getting off the ground? I didn't comment anything about her rotations in that post. And no, I haven't seen anyone live because I can't afford it, it's pretty clear in the wording of my post:



So I was asking Skater Boy if he saw her skating live to be able to say that her jumps barely get off the ground.

Your jumpamatrons are very helpful indeed, but on the other hand they started a big haterade that has spread everywhere outside this forum with a lot of people criticizing just because others are doing it. In this case, having not seen her live, I don't know who to believe unless I ask them: have you seen her live so you can claim that her jumps look like "twizzles" or are you just part of those who take other people's words and post as if you were there yourself?

The 4CC reports I have read on twitter and tumblr were from people who are not Satoko fans "trying to silence her critics". They were just people who were genuinely surprised that her jumps looked bigger in person and that they weren't distracting from the program at all because she has many other qualities to her skating.

So just by reading YouTube comments lately I can assure you that nobody has the power to silence her critics anymore, not since other "critics" have joined just for the sake of hating, posting disrespectful things and not bringing valid arguments. Anyway, this thread is for Russian ladies so that's all I'm going to post here before other posters get annoyed again.

Well, russian ladies go through this - check any Sot's video on youtube and read the comments =) And its been over 2 years now since Sochi.
I don´t think the jumpamatrons are what started the complaints about judging. Basically, people just got some basis to complain - for example, when I watch a jump in slowmo, and it looks like 2 full rotations for me, I indeed ask myself why is this jump awarded same points as a jump with 3 full rotations.

While I agree that Satoko´s jumps are not distracting from her problem (and that is not how TES should be judges anyways), I am not bothered by her jumps size even. I am only bothered by the number of rotations she does in the air. I don´t say there arent other qualities to her skating - I just think that each skater should recieve the score he or she deserves by each of the element performed. You have great musicality and performance skills? Fine, you get higher PCs. You have great jumps? Here, take your BV and GOE.
The way Satoko is scored is just wrong for me - she should get the PCs she deserves, and she should get the TES she deserves.

This applies to all skaters, not just her.
Ex: PCs for all skaters, russians included, just dont really make sense =)

 

[ioanna]

Well, russian ladies go through this - check any Sot's video on youtube and read the comments =) And its been over 2 years now since Sochi.
I don´t think the jumpamatrons are what started the complaints about judging. Basically, people just got some basis to complain - for example, when I watch a jump in slowmo, and it looks like 2 full rotations for me, I indeed ask myself why is this jump awarded same points as a jump with 3 full rotations.

Not all Russian ladies, just Adelina and most of the hate she gets is (still) coming from Koreans obsessed with Yuna because I can't call them fans. The jumpamatrons didn't start the complaints about judging, they just attracted more and more people who criticize for the sake of criticizing and also her rivals' uber fans who throw sarcastic comments at her as if she's judging her programs herself. When I watch Satoko's jumps in slow-motion, the prerotation on her 3Lz is acceptable but the 3T in combination is not. Her 3F technique is terrible but I feel like she's in the process of fixing it because she tends to lip. OTOH I've seen plenty of "mulekick" 3F with +GOE before. The rest of her jumps are just fine. So - I would punish her for the 3T in her 3Lz-3T combination and for her 3F. Nothing else. In fact she was punished for the jumps I mentioned until the ladies' free skate at the Grand Prix Final where the judging went off the rails for everyone, especially for Evgenia. Satoko's spins, the step sequences and the choreo sequence are also part of the TES and that is where she always (deservedly) gets level 4s and higher GOEs. But people even complain about the GOEs she's getting for her spins and steps so.

 

[mrrice]

First things first. Anyone who doesn't think Adelina is a Diva on skates has never seen her perform live. She is fast, mature, and just a dream to see in person. She's like the Female version of Yagudin. She's like an actress when she skates.

What I really want to know is how the Russians are feeling about the battle between Med and Rod? Who is their favorite?

 

[ioanna]

FWIW the Russian ladies I like are Adelina Sotnikova, Yulia Lipnitskaya and Evgenia Medvedeva. This season Evgenia is better than Elena, whose programs highlight her weaknesses (frantic, flaily movements, lack of coherent choreography and program construction, sloppy skating and jumps) and at the same time help showcase Evgenia's precise, finished movements, better music comprehension and interpretation.

 

[mrrice]

FWIW the Russian ladies I like are Adelina Sotnikova, Yulia Lipnitskaya and Evgenia Medvedeva. This season Evgenia is better than Elena, whose programs highlight her weaknesses (frantic, flaily movements, lack of coherent choreography and program construction, sloppy skating and jumps) and at the same time help showcase Evgenia's precise, finished movements, better music comprehension and interpretation.

Doesn't Russia have 3 spots? Who's the third Russian Lady on team? Is it Anna? I can't believe I don't know the answer. BRB

 

[ioanna]

Doesn't Russia have 3 spots? Who's the third Russian Lady on team? Is it Anna? I can't believe I don't know the answer. BRB

Yes it's Anna. I also find Anna much more refined than Elena but her falls are terrifying to watch.

 

[mrrice]

Yes it's Anna. I also find Anna much more refined than Elena but her falls are terrifying to watch.

Thank you ioanna, I agree about Anna's falls. Maria Butyrskaya used to fall really hard as well. Her fall on the footwork in 1998 still ranks as one of the biggest shocks I've had as a fan. It literally came out of nowhere.

 

[winky97]

First things first. Anyone who doesn't think Adelina is a Diva on skates has never seen her perform live. She is fast, mature, and just a dream to see in person. She's like the Female version of Yagudin. She's like an actress when she skates.

What I really want to know is how the Russians are feeling about the battle between Med and Rod? Who is their favorite?

Will confess that was absolutely not a fan of Adelina's at Olympics and still question those results. That being said, despite the fact that the jumps are not there for her right now, I find that I like her skating more now. I think Dancing with the Stars helped her. I am not Russian, but I prefer Radionova over Medvedeva. I don't dislike Medvedeva I just find her skating to be kinda robotic and stiff. Like she has no emotion out there.

 

[Batsuchan]

What I really want to know is how the Russians are feeling about the battle between Med and Rod? Who is their favorite?

Well, I'm not Russian either, but I do try to read a lot of their forums via GoogleTranslate. I think the basic feeling is not unlike the tone here--some people are Evgenia fans, some people are Elena fans--but people generally agree that Evgenia is the strongest of the Russian ladies this season and is being treated that way by the Russian Fed, so she'll be very hard to beat at Worlds. Elena is still dealing with puberty, and Anna is, well, Anna.

As for their favorites, BY FAR, it is still Yulia, and to a lesser extent, Adelina. The other girls who didn't go to the Olympics just don't have nearly the same popularity.

Doesn't Russia have 3 spots? Who's the third Russian Lady on team? Is it Anna? I can't believe I don't know the answer. BRB

Actually, the final team for Worlds has not been announced yet--it will be announced in early March.
http://rsport.ru/figure_skating/20160202/893412493.html

But I agree that the 3rd member will most likely be Anna. :yes:

 

[mrrice]

Well, I'm not Russian either, but I do try to read a lot of their forums via GoogleTranslate. I think the basic feeling is not unlike the tone here--some people are Evgenia fans, some people are Elena fans--but people generally agree that Evgenia is the strongest of the Russian ladies this season and is being treated that way by the Russian Fed, so she'll be very hard to beat at Worlds. Elena is still dealing with puberty, and Anna is, well, Anna.

As for their favorites, BY FAR, it is still Yulia, and to a lesser extent, Adelina. The other girls who didn't go to the Olympics just don't have nearly the same popularity.



Actually, the final team for Worlds has not been announced yet--it will be announced in early March.
http://rsport.ru/figure_skating/20160202/893412493.html

But I agree that the 3rd member will most likely be Anna. :yes:

Well, I'm thrilled to hear that Yulia is still popular with the Russian fans. I saw that commercial of hers where she has her hair down and she just looks so happy. I hope she is planning to stay eligible until 2018 as I really like the way she's been skating and I want to see her finish on a high note.

 

[Sweet Dream]

Well, I'm thrilled to hear that Yulia is still popular with the Russian fans. I saw that commercial of hers where she has her hair down and she just looks so happy. I hope she is planning to stay eligible until 2018 as I really like the way she's been skating and I want to see her finish on a high note.

Your questions and comments are always sincere and easy to read, unlike some, who are ready to attack and knock someone down with his/her overpowering emotions at any time, but hot & healthy discussions are needed here.

 

[ioanna]

Your questions and comments are always sincere and easy to read, unlike some, who are ready to attack and knock someone down with his/her overpowering emotions at any time, but hot & healthy discussions are needed here.

Overpowering emotions and always ready to attack Hardly. I'm just answering to people who quote my posts and ask me things. :thumbsup:

 

[Tyranid]

FWIW the Russian ladies I like are Adelina Sotnikova, Yulia Lipnitskaya and Evgenia Medvedeva. This season Evgenia is better than Elena, whose programs highlight her weaknesses (frantic, flaily movements, lack of coherent choreography and program construction, sloppy skating and jumps) and at the same time help showcase Evgenia's precise, finished movements, better music comprehension and interpretation.

Sloppy skating? Well her SS and TR are quite good.

W/e, one can say whatever they want about Radionova, but there is no denying that she has colossal charisma and likeability. People like her and want to see her. At the GPF, her gala was the most requested and beat out Fernandez'! We're talking about Barcelona, Spain! She will improve her weaknesses. Her team is not dumb and know about the posture issues. Btw, in the gala we can already see choreo/posture improvements.

And if you're gonna ask "well why doesn't she showcase that in her SP/LP", well, that's because she's fighting jumps and trying to skate clean. She can't be perfect.

Edit:

First things first. Anyone who doesn't think Adelina is a Diva on skates has never seen her perform live. She is fast, mature, and just a dream to see in person. She's like the Female version of Yagudin. She's like an actress when she skates.

What I really want to know is how the Russians are feeling about the battle between Med and Rod? Who is their favorite?

Radionova is clearly the favorite. She has more fans on all internet resourses. She gets the louder cheers at competitions. She also gets the sympathy bonus (along with other obvious ones) over Zhenia this season.

 

[Lucky Star]

What I really want to know is how the Russians are feeling about the battle between Med and Rod? Who is their favorite?

I am Russian I prefer Radionova because of her obvious charisma and fighting spirit, I mean, look how her body changed since last year, how much more mature she looks, yet she is still a medal contender, still lands her jumps and clearly wants to be number one. However, I'm fine with Evgenia beating her. She has much better programs (her LP, IMO, is one of the best I've ever seen in ladies skating) and always maximize her points on elements, while Elena often loses point on her landings here and there. We don't know what will happen to Evgenia even next year, but what she shows now is really really good. As for Elena, I think she has it all to be the first, once she clean up her jumps to get better GOE, maybe move something like 3Lz to the second half, and get better programs, she can beat Evgenia and anyone else, IMO.

 

[Layback11]

I'm not Russian, but I, too, prefer Radionova. I became a fan when she won Skate America last year because I loved the joy and expressiveness of her skating, and it only grew from there. Because I was immediately attracted to one specific quality of her skating, I was able to overlook her posture and sloppiness, which would normally bug me. However, I don't love her programs this season, so I'd like her to get better ones.

I like Evgenia (I didn't used to, but she's grown on me a lot), and she has good programs this season, but she doesn't have the charisma that Lena does. She's more "artistic" than she is a performer who plays to the crowd (Elena), methinks.