Tessa Hong now is assigned to JGP Estonia.
Just saw that on my feed!
State of U.S. Ladies' skating 2016-17
- Thread starter R.D.
- Start date
Just saw that on my feed!
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2010
Interesting season ending up with none of the US junior ladies having 2 spots. Spreading the experience was definitely a good idea.
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2004
Ok, I will agree with you she skated her best lp that night
Poor Gracie. Even when she wins, she can't win (according to some people). Not you Topaz Emerald. By the way, what a pretty name you have!
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2014
Is it a good idea? I'm inclined to disagree. Unless there's a real JGPF candidate in one of the older junior ladies, JGPs should go to the junior ladies under or at the age of 26. It's super unlikely that a 17 year old junior is ever going to be a major factor as a senior lady, and the US ladies post-Gracie and Ashley need all the help they can get. That JGP experience is soooo important. Counting alternates, none of the Russian ladies on the JGP were born earlier than 2000 - correct me if I missed one. Two Japanese ladies were born before 2000. 5-6 US ladies were born before 2000. With the limited number of JGP spots, those spots should be going to ladies who have a shot of going to the JGP Final, potentially medaling at JW, and having international impact as a senior.
Obviously that's a tall order, but that seems to be the strategy for Russia and (sort of) Japan. I'd love it if Vivian Le, for example, had two spots. She won bronze at both her JGPs last year and should've gone to Junior Worlds, but instead we sent two 18ish year olds to lose to 14-15 year olds.
It's nice the USFS gives the older girls a shot, but maybe not the best for elite US ladies skating.
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2013
I read somewhere that Jeff Billings would be doing Polina's dresses this year. He was responsible for some of the gorgeous dresses that Angela Nikodinov wore later in her career. That should be a HUGE improvement!
Yeah dunno, i find it weird too... USA sends very few people to JGP, and to very few competitions.
Compare: (tried to pick around same age, the younger girls in russia and japan already do 2 full seasons, which is like, 6-8 events of top skaters)
Gracie - 1 JGP and 1 Junior Worlds - 2 events
Tuktamysheva - 2 JGP, JGP Final, Junior Worlds - 4 events
Sotnikova - 2 JGP, JGP Final, 2 Junior Worlds - 5 events
rika hongo - 4 jgp, 2 jr worlds - 6 events
You mean 16 right? Well everyone except for Brynne McIssac and Megan Wessenberg are over the age of 16. Vivian Le just turned 16.
Everyone else who was at least assigned is under 16:
* Ashley Kim (13; W/D from JGP Yokohama)
* Alexis Pagini (14; 6th at JGP St. Gervais)]
* Gabrielle NOULLET (14; 7th at JGP Yokohama)
* Ashley LIN (13; in this week's JGP)
* Tessa Hong (14; at JGP Estonia next week)
So it seems they are taking your advice for the most part.
I guess there could be a discussion on the fact that these aren't the best under-16 folks to send, but who do you think they should send instead (in addition to Vivian Le?)
The two Ashleys, Alexis and Tessa do have 3-3s, but it's a matter of whether they will execute them.
I do think there is some improvement from past years when they were sending MORE people who should really have been assigned senior Bs rather than JGPs.
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- Joined
- Feb 16, 2010
I was commenting less about the ages and more about them spreading the wealth since there don't seem to be any current contenders for a major title.
Vivian Le was provisionally assigned to 2 events (she was assigned to Slovenia originally). It seems like there may have been an injury issue or something and she wasn't ready yet.
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2014
I just went through the JGP assignment list and looked at bios for birth years, paid less attention to whether they were assigned or simply substitutes, because so much switching around tends to occur I was hoping it would be representative of who USFS considers their top juniors/juniors most worth considering to send. I'll also admit I don't follow juniors super closely, aside from the top junior ladies and men. Between the Ashleys, Alexis, and Tessa, I'm not sure who may be most deserving of two spots in addition to Vivian, but it'll be a huge shame if one of them does very well at her JGP and doesn't get to do a second one.
If USFS wants to spread the love among its ladies, I think it would at least be worthwhile to send the younger/more promising skaters to the earlier JGPs, so that if they skate well, they can be rewarded with a second.
If nothing else, giving Vivian 2 spots would give her a push and indicate USFS's faith in her and the fact that she's probably their best chance at a JGPF spot (at least she was last year.) By not giving any of the girls two spots, USFS is basically shrugging their shoulders and saying "none of you will make the final anyway." It's not a great look.
But isn't Vivian injured? That's the reason I think they would have held her back. I think she would have received two spots otherwise.
I think Alexis and Ashley Kim would have shots at second events but Alexis didn't do great (and she got to go to Challenge) and Ashley Kim got injured while in competition, so there was that.
I think Alexis and Ashley Kim would have shots at second events but Alexis didn't do great (and she got to go to Challenge) and Ashley Kim got injured while in competition, so there was that.
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2010
Alexia Paganini (14) had the first JGP. (There is no Alexis, that was a typo). She did decently, but still only placed 6th. Provisionally had a second assignment, but that just changed.
Ashley Kim (13) and Gabrielle Noullet (14) had the third JGP. Ashley's unfortunate injury withdrawal meant that there wasn't going to be 2 assignments for her, so we'll never really know until next season.
Tessa Hong (14) likely wasn't deemed fit for competition earlier in the JGP series (since she's had a lot of injury issues). That is probably why she wasn't given an assignment until now. Same with Vivian - she didn't compete all summer and then withdrew from the FS in her one recent competition. If she was fit for competition, the USFS probably would've kept her in the provisional Slovenia assignment.
They actually did send young skaters to early JGPs. Seems like some unfortunate injury issues (Ashley Kim, as well as possibly Tessa and Vivian) messed with plans to send skaters to 2 events. Also, Kaitlyn Nguyen who has had a lovely summer isn't age eligible until next season.
We might be seeing a similar scenario to what we saw with the U.S. junior men in the 2013-2014/2014-2015 seasons. Jason Brown and Joshua Farris, who were like the Gracie and Ashley of U.S. junior men in international competition for two years, moved on to seniors after 2013 Jr. Worlds and at some point during those two seasons, Nathan Chen, Vincent Zhou and Tomoki Hiwatashi were all sidelined with injuries. Andrew Torgashev and Alexei Kranzason wasn't in the picture yet.
To take the U.S. ladies metaphor further -- remember in the 2012-2013 season, Nathan Chen had that stellar JGP in Austria, akin to Polina Edmunds getting on the Olympic team surprising everyone? And like Polina, Nathan struggled with growth spurts and injury (which basically sidelined him for the rest of the 2012-2013 season).
Still, 2013-2014 was okay with Nathan Chen getting bronze at both JGPF and Jr. Worlds and him and Jordan Moeller getting 3 Jr. World spots and full JGPF spots by the skin of their teeth. (Shotaro Omori also struggled not making the FS after contributing to a U.S. men's sweep the year before with Josh and Jason).
But 2014-2015. Nathan was dealing with injuries again and there weren't really any other Jr. men out there. So we didn't have a man in the JGPF final for the first time in years, no Jr. Worlds medalist and lost the 3rd spot by just one placement (though we were able to keep full JGP spots thanks to Nathan's 4th place finish and Andrew Torgashev had a stellar debut).
Obviously the men have bounced back since then with Vincent and Nathan making JGPF (and Nathan winning it) and Tomoki and Vincent getting the 3rd spot back at 2016 Jr. Worlds and Tomoki, who was actually a sub for an injured Nathan, getting on the podium (hope he does better in his second event!).
So maybe this is a rebuilding year (though with U.S. ladies, I guess it's really YEARS)
To take the U.S. ladies metaphor further -- remember in the 2012-2013 season, Nathan Chen had that stellar JGP in Austria, akin to Polina Edmunds getting on the Olympic team surprising everyone? And like Polina, Nathan struggled with growth spurts and injury (which basically sidelined him for the rest of the 2012-2013 season).
Still, 2013-2014 was okay with Nathan Chen getting bronze at both JGPF and Jr. Worlds and him and Jordan Moeller getting 3 Jr. World spots and full JGPF spots by the skin of their teeth. (Shotaro Omori also struggled not making the FS after contributing to a U.S. men's sweep the year before with Josh and Jason).
But 2014-2015. Nathan was dealing with injuries again and there weren't really any other Jr. men out there. So we didn't have a man in the JGPF final for the first time in years, no Jr. Worlds medalist and lost the 3rd spot by just one placement (though we were able to keep full JGP spots thanks to Nathan's 4th place finish and Andrew Torgashev had a stellar debut).
Obviously the men have bounced back since then with Vincent and Nathan making JGPF (and Nathan winning it) and Tomoki and Vincent getting the 3rd spot back at 2016 Jr. Worlds and Tomoki, who was actually a sub for an injured Nathan, getting on the podium (hope he does better in his second event!).
So maybe this is a rebuilding year (though with U.S. ladies, I guess it's really YEARS)
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- Joined
- Feb 16, 2010
Yeah, the US had some dominant years on the JGP (06-07, 07-08, 08-09, even somewhat 09-10) and then just fell off.
I don't understand why Starr Andrews didn't get a JGP assignment? I didn't even know who she was until today (someone posted about her earlier on here), and she seems to have as good (or better) technique, and better artistry, than most of the Junior Ladies representing the US.
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2010
Not great showing at earlier summer monitoring + lack of spots + others also showing up at summer events. She did great this weekend and was rightfully added to the ISP, but it's too late to add her to the JGP substitutes.
Well U.S. ladies did okay through 2012. We had the U.S. ladies sweet in 2008 (with Rachael, Mirai and Caroline), Ashley medaling in 2007 and 2009. Agnes Z medaling in 2010 and 2011 and Gracie medaling in 2012. We didn't medal in 2013, but did well enough for 3 spots. We basically lost 3 spots in 2014 and haven't gotten them back since.
We had a U.S. lady making JGPF in ladies up to the 2013-2014 season (though Hannah Miller would be the last medal recipient in 2012-2013).
That was all before the full-blown Russian invasion, which I would say started with the Russian Jr. Worlds sweep of Yulia, Elena and Anna P in the 2012-2013 season. (We had Russian champs before then and things were perculating, but there wasn't the mass quality of them that we have had since that season).
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Ah that makes sense. How old is she? 16?
Regardless, she has a way more interesting short than most of the US junior ladies. I really liked the Pink Panther jazz, its very different from much of what the US Ladies are doing. I'm excited to see how she does in the future.
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Does it not seem like American Junior success does not translate well at all into seniors internationally?
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2010
Yeah, the falling off was slower than my post implied, but it definitely did start declining after those peak years.
I think she's 15.
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2014
I think it's more complicated than that. The sweep in 2008 pre-dated (I think) the major UR attention, which plagued Rachael, Mirai, and Caroline. The UR problem in US ladies holds them back more than anything, and it's all technique problem. It's plagued Ashley, too. Gracie is one of the very few US ladies NOT dealing with UR issues in recent years. Technique problems can be manageable pre-puberty but become more apparent after growth. (All the complaints about Russian lady technique, but seriously, US UR problems.)
Anyway, you've all made some good points and perhaps I was a little hasty in being overly critical of the JGP allocations (didn't follow juniors much especially this summer). But fingers crossed USFS doesn't send more 18 year olds to Junior Worlds this year. Heck, maybe more international competitions as young juniors would help our girls' consistency problems?
