State of U.S. Ladies' skating 2016-17

[Mrs. P]

Yikes.....the sharks are out. I've always liked Gracie but there are some things about her skating that put me a bit off. She can come across as stiff and even disconnected at times from the music but there is a huge difference in not feeling someone's artistry and saying they are overscored. I think a lot of Gracie's scores come from an overall feeling that the judges get watching her perform live and while it's not in the official PCS guidelines I'd simply call it presence. The feeling you get watching her whisk around at fast speeds and the completeness her spins offer to her programs.

Personally I find her interpretation a bit underwhelming at times but I think it's just personal preference and not anything that has any credible argument for lower scores. Not sure why people feel she's so overscored because I think she has a lot to offer that many judges pick up on. YMMV.

She has really good basics -- namely speed, ice coverage and presence. So I agree with you that she has things that compel judges to score her well in PCS. And I actually think she does execute choreography well. As you say you can disagree with how she interprets the choreography, but that's not the same as being able to execute transitions, steps and the other components that make up the program.

I think the disconnect comes because she doesn't connect to the audience -- probably, because as you say, she is underwhelming as far as interpretation. Ashley does do that. Among the U.S. men, Jason Brown does that. And I also don't think you need to be a grade-A extrovert to be a great performer. I think Shoma Uno has a LOT of charisma but he doesn't have a in-your-face style (and he seems more introverted off-the-ice).

ETA to respond to your ETA, SS: I think the interest is on the American men more so because there is FAR more diversity in the men's field, IMO. Each of the men have different skating styles, strategies -- makes it more interesting. Same with Ice Dance.

(But for what it's worth, the U.S. Ladies seem to get discussed in the men's thread, so I don't think interest in U.S. Ladies is dead just yet.

 

[samson]

Just wanted to share this article with some great quotes from Mirai and Tom post the short. Sounds like she's in a great headspace for this season. I'm looking forward to/anxious for the free!

https://bevsmithwrites.wordpress.com/2016/09/30/drama-at-autumn-classic/

 

[skatelikewind1966]

well she fell on all three jumping passes, and only got the first half of the combo. with the new system it was 4 points for the falls... unless that is not in effect and she fell a fourth time.

It looks like the PCS was low overall at this event. Caroline only got a little under 4 more than Vivian.

Vivian is such a fast skater who is known for her pick jumps. She has, however, always been inconsistent with her edge jumps and has always been very robotic on the ice. Her injury set her back, yes, but Raf was needing to redo so many things to help her become a successful competitor for years to come, not just a big jumper who can do a big lutz. She is having to relearn and change so many things while focusing on other details of skating that just weren't important to those helping her before. I for one see this as a wonderful opportunity for a young athlete who does have the abilty, the willingness to take a step backwards knowing that if she keeps her head down, listens to her Coach and continues working hard she will be a legitimate contender.

 

[apons575]

why should I? I have my right to voice my observation and my opinion!

Because your white privelege is showing. Having the audacity to claim racism againt whites is not only a lopsided argument, but simply disgusting. You have a right to an opinion, and we have the right to contest your opinion.

MY opinion.....This is a figure skating forum. Stick to talking about glitter and sequins.

 

[Tavi...]

A little harsh but so true - one of my many pet peeves, talking about placement/score rather than actual performace or level of competition.

Yeah, I like Mariah's skating a lot and wasn't trying to be harsh, but facts are facts. I'm not sure if her problem is that she's a nervous competitor or whether there really are underlying tech issues. She has clearly improved since last season, but IMO she isnt really competitive yet for a GP medal.

ETA to respond to other recent posts, I love Gracie's new program and continue to hope she can pull it together. She looked nervous to me, but I thought that until that first awful fall, what she did was lovely. One thing that might have put extra pressure on her was the fact that she just did a Japanese commercial for Kose, which was a sponsor of the event. Perhaps not the wisest choice given her nerves.

 

[Eclair]

That's a strong comment. I don't really care much about a skater off ice, but I have never felt Gracie is not a nice person, or other skaters are better person than Gracie. WHat I know about Gracie is she is afraid of performing in front of a huge crowd, and she is not good at, or has never thought about crafting her pubic image (vs. Ashley).

I won't engage in that witch hunt and start counting off the times I didn't like Gracies words or how she acted. My statement was meant as reply to another user who said, that most people don't like Gracie because she looks 'bitchy' (her words, not mine) and that this was some kind of white rasism, which I thought was a groundless accusation, followed by reasons why I personally am not a fan of Gracie. If you are sincerely interested how I made my mind up, then PM me and I'll put time and effort into explaining.

Yikes.....the sharks are out. I've always liked Gracie but there are some things about her skating that put me a bit off. She can come across as stiff and even disconnected at times from the music but there is a huge difference in not feeling someone's artistry and saying they are overscored. I think a lot of Gracie's scores come from an overall feeling that the judges get watching her perform live and while it's not in the official PCS guidelines I'd simply call it presence. The feeling you get watching her whisk around at fast speeds and the completeness her spins offer to her programs.

Personally I find her interpretation a bit underwhelming at times but I think it's just personal preference and not anything that has any credible argument for lower scores. Not sure why people feel she's so overscored because I think she has a lot to offer that many judges pick up on even if I may not really look for those things in a skater YMMV.

I think if everyone else who skates stiff and not emoting much gets low PCS, then Gracie should too (I'm not even expecting really low PCS, since her SS are really quite good.) But it's that double standard, that I find off-putting, though I have to give her that she does not make the scores and it's the judges who (I think) are at fault here.

 

[Eclair]

If there is any "vitriol" against Gracie now its because she was insanely hyped by the USFSA and its lackeys basically a whole year before she even stepped onto senior ice, despite the fact her junior career wasn't exactly the most "OMG WOW." USFSA and her PR team made the expectations that the people hold Gracie to,much to her own detriment, and she isn't living up to them.

Early in her senior career people were giving her the benefit of doubt and patiently waiting for the breakthrough but people are getting tired of waiting, especially since the US ladies aren't challenging for the top spot as they should be. It was already bubbling throughout last season but Worlds was the domino that is knocking all the others down and more people are openly getting irritated, Japan Open makes it worse.

It's worse because its clear as day that despite not living up to any expectations the USFSA still holds her as defacto #1 and the other ladies get paid close to dust. Ashley is where she is only because she fought tooth and nail for herself and Gracie falters so they got no choice, Polina isn't getting any politiking or big push (last years nationals where she should have won overall and the competition that should have been a message from the fed. to Gracie "skate two clean parts or else...") and it feels like to them the other girls almost don't exist. So if there is any "jealously" its because Gracie, who hasn't lived up to the hype, is still getting all the attention much to the detriment of all the other girls.

very well said and so true!

 

[TwinnerA]

I'm confused. I know how a person can act bitchy, but how does one "look bitchy"?

I feel for Gracie, I really do. I think she cares a lot and that is why she was so devastated after Worlds. I'm sure she's doing everything in her power to figure out why she can't skate up to her potential. She's under a lot of pressure skaters weren't under 10 years ago because of social media. Hugs to Gracie!

 

[Mrs. P]

Social media sucks. It makes me glad that all that stuff came AFTER I grew up. And I still deal with it to an extent in my professional life, so I can't imagine how much worse it is for someone Gracie's age.

 

[Tavi...]

If there is any "vitriol" against Gracie now its because she was insanely hyped by the USFSA and its lackeys basically a whole year before she even stepped onto senior ice, despite the fact her junior career wasn't exactly the most "OMG WOW." USFSA and her PR team made the expectations that the people hold Gracie to,much to her own detriment, and she isn't living up to them.

Early in her senior career people were giving her the benefit of doubt and patiently waiting for the breakthrough but people are getting tired of waiting, especially since the US ladies aren't challenging for the top spot as they should be. It was already bubbling throughout last season but Worlds was the domino that is knocking all the others down and more people are openly getting irritated, Japan Open makes it worse.

It's worse because its clear as day that despite not living up to any expectations the USFSA still holds her as defacto #1 and the other ladies get paid close to dust. Ashley is where she is only because she fought tooth and nail for herself and Gracie falters so they got no choice, Polina isn't getting any politiking or big push (last years nationals where she should have won overall and the competition that should have been a message from the fed. to Gracie "skate two clean parts or else...") and it feels like to them the other girls almost don't exist. So if there is any "jealously" its because Gracie, who hasn't lived up to the hype, is still getting all the attention much to the detriment of all the other girls.

This makes no sense. Gracie can't control whether USFS hypes her nor can she control how it treats other US ladies. Dislike of USFS doesn't justify directing vitriol at Gracie.

 

[TMC]

Social media sucks. It makes me glad that all that stuff came AFTER I grew up. And I still deal with it to an extent in my professional life, so I can't imagine how much worse it is for someone Gracie's age.

Word!

 

[skatelikewind1966]

Being that Gracie grew up using social media herself and is now 21 y.o. , I'm sure she is handling it quite well. I'm also sure she is only focusing on what she can control and that is practicing hard, getting stronger so she is fully prepared to take the GOLD at Nationals in Kansas City.

 

[Mrs. P]

Being that Gracie grew up using social media herself and is now 21 y.o. , I'm sure she is handling it quite well.

Hardly.

When you grow up with it, you actually know how to use it to injure others. I've seen it too often.

Gracie needs to stop looking up tweets about herself. I notice that she favors tweets badmouthing her where the person doesn't even mention Gracie by her Twitter handle.

She's also mentioned on the record how social media hurts her feelings, etc.

 

[EdgeCall]

Hardly.

When you grow up with it, you actually know how to use it to injure others. I've seen it too often.

Gracie needs to stop looking up tweets about herself. I notice that she favors tweets badmouthing her where the person doesn't even mention Gracie by her Twitter handle.

She's also mentioned on the record how social media hurts her feelings, etc.

That's the problem. Gracie puts the opinions of others above her own. She believed the stuff in juniors that she will be "the next skating wonder who will win us our gold medals" and desperately tries to live up to it. Skating wise she has what it takes, but her nerves do not play along. I just wish she would learn how to show the finger to the public and tell them they can go f*** themselves. Figuratively of course, but it would do her good.

 

[yuzushenko]

I think in terms of consistency, Ashley and Gracie are on equal terms, but just my observation.

i honestly don't think so.

ashley doesn't implode with a bunch of falls and pops in the same program. she might pop 1 jump, or step out of something, but she doesn't really implode like gracie tends to do all the time. ashley is a lot more consistent. sure she might get an underrotation call or something, but she never does as badly as gracie tends to do all of the time now. just look at japan open. this is normal for gracie. no one is surprised, she has done this before and she'll probably do it again. people say "it's the start of the season" but it's the start of the season for every other skater and none of them implode this often. a lot of skaters are actually doing pretty well for it being the "start of the season"

 

[skatelikewind1966]

Hardly.

When you grow up with it, you actually know how to use it to injure others. I've seen it too often.

Gracie needs to stop looking up tweets about herself. I notice that she favors tweets badmouthing her where the person doesn't even mention Gracie by her Twitter handle.

She's also mentioned on the record how social media hurts her feelings, etc.

When you grow up with it you know how to use it to injure others??? Thoroughly confused by this statement.

You make a very interesting observation - "...she favors tweets badmouthing her where the person doesn't even mention Gracie by her Twitter handle." - this is very worrisome and sounds like she might be wasting a lot of unnecessary energy looking for smoke to find a fire.

You further noted that Gracie "also mentioned on the record how social media hurts her feelings, etc". As a 21 y.o. athlete representing the US, she is an adult who has a choice to not monitor social media seeking "tweets badmouthing her where the person doesn't even mention Gracie by her twitter handle". She should know by know she can only control what she can control and that is being a beautiful skater who performs very well.

 

[Krunchii]

When you grow up with it you know how to use it to injure others??? Thoroughly confused by this statement.

You make a very interesting observation - "...she favors tweets badmouthing her where the person doesn't even mention Gracie by her Twitter handle." - this is very worrisome and sounds like she might be wasting a lot of unnecessary energy looking for smoke to find a fire.

You further noted that Gracie "also mentioned on the record how social media hurts her feelings, etc". As a 21 y.o. athlete representing the US, she is an adult who has a choice to not monitor social media seeking "tweets badmouthing her where the person doesn't even mention Gracie by her twitter handle". She should know by know she can only control what she can control and that is being a beautiful skater who performs very well.

Uh as someone who's grown up with social media, the more you understand different platforms the more you can use it to hurt people, eg using anonymous accounts to leave rude comments, "friends" unfollowing you or icing you out, leaving passive aggressive comments that are directed at a person and the list goes on.

I think Gracie realizes it's bad to look at the comments but it's probably some form of morbid curiosity and she'll see a couple comments and then they stick. Like I can't do horror or read scary stories or I can't sleep at night but I still do sometimes and I regret it a lot, and then I don't learn my lesson and it happens again. I don't think Gracie spends hours combing through comments on Twitter or anything, sometimes even fans are dumb enough to show you bad comments and ask you for your opinion on them. Even interviewers say "Oh figure skating fans are saying so and so in respect to your performance, what do you think?"

 

[Mrs. P]

When you grow up with it you know how to use it to injure others??? Thoroughly confused by this statement.

You make a very interesting observation - "...she favors tweets badmouthing her where the person doesn't even mention Gracie by her Twitter handle." - this is very worrisome and sounds like she might be wasting a lot of unnecessary energy looking for smoke to find a fire.

You further noted that Gracie "also mentioned on the record how social media hurts her feelings, etc". As a 21 y.o. athlete representing the US, she is an adult who has a choice to not monitor social media seeking "tweets badmouthing her where the person doesn't even mention Gracie by her twitter handle". She should know by know she can only control what she can control and that is being a beautiful skater who performs very well.

As a 34-year-old professional, I can speak how hard it is to not let online comments get to me (I work in a semi-public role, so I deal with the public a lot, both online and off). It's taken me a long time to learn to use my time for things that that benefit me rather than drag me down.

I actually find social media great on one level -- I"ve met a lot of great people in my profession through it and I've gotten some professional development opportunities through it.

Ironically, most of the kids who grow up with social media do not understand how to use it in a positive manner (i.e. professionally). I did a presentation on how to use social media to brand yourself to high school kids and instead learned about how they use it to throw shade at their classmates and people they don't like.

ETA: Ashley Wagner has also dealt with a lot of vitriol, especially after she was chosen over Mirai for the Olympic team. She's learned to handle it, I think, but I think she'll tell you how tough it is, even as a 24-year-old adult.

 

[AsadaFanBoy]

Uh as someone who's grown up with social media, the more you understand different platforms the more you can use it to hurt people, eg using anonymous accounts to leave rude comments, "friends" unfollowing you or icing you out, leaving passive aggressive comments that are directed at a person and the list goes on.

I think Gracie realizes it's bad to look at the comments but it's probably some form of morbid curiosity and she'll see a couple comments and then they stick. Like I can't do horror or read scary stories or I can't sleep at night but I still do sometimes and I regret it a lot, and then I don't learn my lesson and it happens again. I don't think Gracie spends hours combing through comments on Twitter or anything, sometimes even fans are dumb enough to show you bad comments and ask you for your opinion on them. Even interviewers say "Oh figure skating fans are saying so and so in respect to your performance, what do you think?"

it doesn't even need to be morbid curiosity. her own instagram may have them and instagram accounts she follows. same goes for FB -- she might not be looking for them, but it's there and she can't unsee it.

 

[R.D.]

...Ashley is where she is only because she fought tooth and nail for herself and Gracie falters so they got no choice, Polina isn't getting any politiking or big push (last years nationals where she should have won overall and the competition that should have been a message from the fed. to Gracie "skate two clean parts or else...") and it feels like to them the other girls almost don't exist. So if there is any "jealously" its because Gracie, who hasn't lived up to the hype, is still getting all the attention much to the detriment of all the other girls.

I think Gold winning was a fair result in this case (and believe me, I have my fair share of questions over Nationals results in recent years) - I mean, think about it - that was THE BEST I've EVER seen her skate. EVER. And AT her best she is just SO much better than the rest of that field (only Wagner comes close) that it was enough to overcome the deficit with Edmunds, even though the latter had a clean skate. Yes, Gold is just THAT far superior at her best. But...had Gold had even one shaky moment, I would agree with you.

And about Gold's persona - on TV, and even in interviews, I don't like the vibe I get. However, in person oddly enough it's a different experience - watch her interact with fans or perhaps even get lucky enough to interact with her a little yourself - nice, outgoing, even funny at times. Of course, this is to say nothing about her personality, which only her family and friends would truly know.