US Team: 4CCs and Worlds (updated)

[mrrice]

Gracie has been training. She's been spotted in Michigan.

Is she really training with Marina Zueva? Have I been on Mars??? When did this happen. Well, I think Marina might be great for Gracie. I also think the environment they have in Michigan might also be good for her. I wish I understood Gracie's personality better but, maybe having other elite skaters in, and around her will help her motivated. No matter what happens, it's good to see that she hasn't given up.

 

[princessalica]

I don't think anyone has anymore info than the Instagram pictures of her at mz's rink, so don't know if it's an interim location or testing for it to become permanent. But yes, she's still working, so I think if Karen needs to sit 4cs out, Gracie has been training and could be the alternate and we might see a stronger Gracie. Even though nationals wasn't great, she had clearly improved since golden spin.

 

[rosy14]

This year 4CC is more important than last year, and all countries are sending their best, and that means three very good Japaneses, one possibly very good Chinese (if Mishin's cure works with Zijun as well as with Carolina...), Turnsynbaeva and Koreans, who, being at home, will show up and gain from the natural home facor.
A not so good result in Korea may be upsetting for young girls as Chen and Bell, and may USFSA change its choices for Worlds.
I'm afraid this year is the worst to having lost Gracie and not having Ashley as sparkling as she was last year, at least up to now.
And a lot will depend on the technical panel: if there is Shamanu...

 

[skylark]

That's not what I meant... But Mirai has higher scoring potential (mainly due to reputation probably) than Karen and Mariah.
I love Karen a lot (probably my favorite US lady right now), I see a lot of potential in Mariah and I'm happy to see some new (and younger) US ladies at worlds, but this year might not be the best one to debut at worlds with a ton of extra pressure. Then maybe they'll do great in Helsinki and prove me absolutely wrong, but right now this is looking like a suicidal strategy for me, just like the Chinese fed sending Wang/Wang and Peng/Zhang instead of Yu/Jin last year (and that didn't end well at all).

And yet this strategy is what so many on GS forum wish US would do, especially for the ladies: make skaters endure more test skates, and count 4CC as a test skate. And then go with the most recent result. I agree it was disastrous to leave Y/J home last year on the basis of one poor skate. I'm happy with the way USFSA chooses who goes to international comps.

A not so good result in Korea may be upsetting for young girls as Chen and Bell, and may USFSA change its choices for Worlds.

That isn't how USFSA makes selections. 4CC is not another trials; it's an international comp experience on its own.

However people want to count in politics, consistency, the current season, etc. for what will happen at Worlds, I think there's a lot of hope and maybe a lot of evidence that each skater's performance on the day can rise above all the rest of the factors.

 

[Sydney Rose]

This year 4CC is more important than last year, and all countries are sending their best, and that means three very good Japaneses, one possibly very good Chinese (if Mishin's cure works with Zijun as well as with Carolina...), Turnsynbaeva and Koreans, who, being at home, will show up and gain from the natural home facor.
A not so good result in Korea may be upsetting for young girls as Chen and Bell, and may USFSA change its choices for Worlds.
I'm afraid this year is the worst to having lost Gracie and not having Ashley as sparkling as she was last year, at least up to now.
And a lot will depend on the technical panel: if there is Shamanu...

I don't mean to nitpick your words but I think we need to stop referring to legally (or almost legally) adult female skaters as "young girls." They're young women, not girls. Chen will be 18 in August and Bell will be 21 in April. I've also noticed some posters referring to Gracie Gold that way, even though she'll be 22 in August.

Can you imagine referring to Jason Brown or Yuzuru Hanyu as "young boys" when they were those ages? Or Nathan Chen now, at the age of 17?

These are strong women, top athletes, not dainty snowflakes. Let's give them the respect they're due.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

I don't mean to nitpick your words but I think we need to stop referring to legally (or almost legally) adult female skaters as "young girls." They're young women, not girls. Chen will be 18 in August and Bell will be 21 in April. I've also noticed some posters referring to Gracie Gold that way, even though she'll be 22 in August.

Can you imagine referring to Jason Brown or Yuzuru Hanyu as "young boys" when they were those ages? Or Nathan Chen now, at the age of 17?

These are strong women, top athletes, not dainty snowflakes. Let's give them the respect they're due.

Thank you for saying this. :agree:

 

[karne]

Uh, I still refer to Chen as a kid - because he is.

But I agree that referring to Karen and especially Mariah (who is nearly 21, seriously!) as if they were fragile little 8 year olds who'll be inconsolable at a loss is a bit rude.

 

[moonvine]

I don't mean to nitpick your words but I think we need to stop referring to legally (or almost legally) adult female skaters as "young girls." They're young women, not girls. Chen will be 18 in August and Bell will be 21 in April. I've also noticed some posters referring to Gracie Gold that way, even though she'll be 22 in August.

Can you imagine referring to Jason Brown or Yuzuru Hanyu as "young boys" when they were those ages? Or Nathan Chen now, at the age of 17?

These are strong women, top athletes, not dainty snowflakes. Let's give them the respect they're due.

I'm cool with it as long as it applies to both sexes equally. I'm swimming in the State Games/Senior Games in June and it is all "boys" and "girls". So you have "boys" 13-18 100 backstroke and "boys" 70-74 100 backstroke. I swim in "girls" 50-54 100 butterfly. I think it is amusing more than anything else.

 

[TontoK]

Uh, I still refer to Chen as a kid - because he is.

But I agree that referring to Karen and especially Mariah (who is nearly 21, seriously!) as if they were fragile little 8 year olds who'll be inconsolable at a loss is a bit rude.

I've reached that glorious age when all non-gray people are kids.

But I fully agree with the sentiment that elite athletes are delicate snowflakes whose egos must be nurtured and tended.

 

[frida80]

Uh, I still refer to Chen as a kid - because he is.

But I agree that referring to Karen and especially Mariah (who is nearly 21, seriously!) as if they were fragile little 8 year olds who'll be inconsolable at a loss is a bit rude.

Nathan is four months older than Karen. I think of them both as kids, not because they legally still are. But also because I've seen them both grow up on the ice. So I feel like one of those adults that still treats grown nieces and nephews like children even though they've grown up a long time ago.

But I do think calling Mariah a child is overkill. She's a woman. She is going to be under a lot of pressure, but she and Karen must rise to the occasion or suffer the consequences.

 

[SarahSynchro]

Gracie doesn't even have a coach and probably hasn't been practicing her programs since national. She wouldn't be close to being prepared. She's in Canton trying things out with Marina. Karen still has a week before the competition, hopefully she'll be better by then.

While you are probably right about all of that, Gracie is listed as the first alternate for 4CC. Whether or not she would accept it is another story. But we're just talking about hypothetical situations, I'm sure Karen will be fine.

 

[el henry]

I wish people would stop with the word "snowflakes". It means nothing to me (except that a whole bunch of snowflakes together can cause a whole lotta trouble)

None of the athletes who have reached this level are "coddled" or "indulged". They are all amazing skaters in their own right If someone breaks out Paul Lynde and "Kids" on me, I'll break out the old lady cane

And I'm sorry, anyone under the age of 18 to me is a boy or a girl. Like Karen or Nathan. Outstanding athletic ability does not change the laws of nature, sad to say ....although I'm fine with young man or young lady.

And with my silver strands, that includes a whole lotta folks

 

[Rissa]

I wish people would stop with the word "snowflakes". It means nothing to me (except that a whole bunch of snowflakes together can cause a whole lotta trouble)

Seriously? I'm ESL and I know very well what "snowflake" means and is supposed to express. I've seen it all over the internet, tv, even books.
And if you wish people would stop using it, then you must have seen it a couple of times so how can it still mean nothing to you?

 

[Mathman]

Seriously? I'm ESL and I know very well what "snowflake" means and is supposed to express. I've seen it all over the internet, tv, even books...

Just to be sure I Googled "snowflake slang definition" and got quite a few interesting examples of the use of this term. As applied to figure skaters, I think it means something like, a person who is sheltered from criticism and pampered into thinking they deserve special treatment, and so they melt away when they have to go out into the hot sun of the real world.

If that is what is intended, I think that skaters who reach the elite level are the opposite. They get up at four in the morning to practice for four hours before school, etc., and make many sacrifices to achieve excellence in their sport. Even at the beginning levels they are pushed into cut-throat competitions. A contest at the novice or intermediate level or below might have 30 entries. There is one winner and 29 losers. Even if you hold your child's hand and say, "There, there, sweetheart, at least you finished third and got a medal," the child knows that he or she lost, and vows to seek revenge next time. :yes:

 

[icellist]

along with the collegiate skating thread, why doesn't usfsa send someone to winter universaide?

They could've sent Angela Wang, Livvy Shilling, Max Aaron, Alex Johnson, Hawayek/Baker

 

[skatelikewind1966]

This thread, oy vey......

 

[Barb]

along with the collegiate skating thread, why doesn't usfsa send someone to winter universaide?

They could've sent Angela Wang, Livvy Shilling, Max Aaron, Alex Johnson, Hawayek/Baker

yes, Why did not they go to the competition?

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

It's hard to deny Karen's placement if she goes clean. Her jumps are awesome. Spins are also first rate. Steps are ok. The packaging could be better, but her skating skills are strong enough to carry her. I think a clean SP will earn her 32+ for PCS, and a clean LP will earn 66+ PCS. She's America #1 girl now.

Could get 70+ in the SP, and close to 140 in the LP. Competitive enough to be in the top 6.
Ashley will have to claw her way into the top 6 somehow.

Today showed why one event won't make someone our #1.

 

[FlattFan]

Today showed why one event won't make someone our #1.

Who knows how Ashley is doing at the moment. If she's skating like she did at the second Grand Prix, even if Mariah and Karen didn't make any mistakes, it will be down to 2 spots. For all intents and purposes, Karen is still US #1.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

For all intents and purposes, Karen is still US #1.

Honestly, I don't think Karen is even our #3. She skated well at Nationals but Mirai and Mariah have had better seasons internationally. Karen has skated 10 international SPs as a senior and has yet to earn 63 points. Do you ignore every single international result when you make these statements?