2016-2017 State of Canadian Figure Skating | Page 61 | Golden Skate

2016-2017 State of Canadian Figure Skating

My point was that as the more experienced international skater, Sarah should have been in Junior Ladies I, which was by far the stronger group. Aurora would have won gold in Junior Ladies II and Sarah would have won bronze in Junior Ladies I. That way, they both would have medals, bringing the count to 40.

Capisce?

Your last "question" was condescending as well.

Please don't try to twist your own words when a forum is in writing. It is very easy to go back and see. Your original question was asking why a senior was competing in junior ladies. Not like this "point" where are comparing I and II. She is not a senior skater internationally; she has no senior experience other than nationals and that was only because she already won juniors. If you were actually trying to make this point, your question would have asked why a more experienced junior skater was in Junior I instead of II.
 
I'm surprised Sarah wasn't entered in the Senior Ladies event, seeing that she finished 4th at Nationals. She would have done reasonably well there---her SP score would have placed 5th in the SP today. And she would have a shot at getting some World Ranking points (which juniors don't get), along with some valuable senior experience.

If she is going to go to JW again this year, she didn't need the junior TES minimums from this event, because the ones from JW 2016 would have carried over to this year.
 
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Perhaps we need to ask Skate Canada why they thought this was a good decision. Perhaps they wanted to see a skate off with Sarah and Aurora. Or get Sarah more international experience as a junior since she's going to Junior Worlds.

As Alex D explained the girls were put into groups based on birth date but federations could request to have all their skaters together in a group. At least one skater was put into a specific group because she was late. So Sarah didn't get to choose her group.

If we are going to go after junior level skaters competing in junior events instead of senior then I'd like to bring up McNamara/Carpenter. They've done themselves no favours staying juniors despite winning Junior Worlds. Now they're behind both the Parsons and Loboda/Drozd. Not a great position to be in when aging out of juniors. They won everything last season, and this is also the pre-Olympic season. They could have easily moved up and established themselves. Why didn't they?

Oh but wait, that's none of my business.

https://cdn.meme.am/cache/images/folder722/11590722.jpg
 
That was their decision. My guess is McNamara/Carpenter saw 3 strong teams at the top of US ice dance with a 4th on the way up (Hawayek/Baker) and concluded (perhaps erroneously) that there wasn't any room for another wannabe at the senior level. Then there was the fact that Lorraine was a senior in high school and wanted to finish her schooling before moving up.

If they had moved up to senior, they might have established themselves much as Pogrebinsky/Benoit did, or maybe they would have had a rough time. There is no way to know. However, if they had moved up, USFS would have sent them to senior internationals, not junior events.

The only time USFS sends Seniors to Junior events is Junior Worlds, and that is only in the single events. If a Senior skater needs the Junior TES minimums to compete at Junior Worlds, USFS will send the skater to a comp like Bavarian Open to get those scores. Otherwise, USFS doesn't send senior skaters to ISU B junior events.

USFS had to send the Greens (who competed junior domestically this season) to the Advanced Novice Ice Dance event at the Bavarian Open this year because Caroline didn't turn 13 until October, so wasn't age-eligible to skate in the Junior event.
 
I'm surprised Sarah wasn't entered in the Senior Ladies event, seeing that she finished 4th at Nationals. She would have done reasonably well there---her SP score would have placed 5th in the SP today. And she would have a shot at getting some World Ranking points (which juniors don't get), along with some valuable senior experience.

If she is going to go to JW again this year, she didn't need the junior TES minimums from this event, because the ones from JW 2016 would have carried over to this year.

Again your facts are incorrect chuckm; Sarah finished in 5th place behind Larkyn Austman.
 
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That was their decision. My guess is McNamara/Carpenter saw 3 strong teams at the top of US ice dance with a 4th on the way up (Hawayek/Baker) and concluded (perhaps erroneously) that there wasn't any room for another wannabe at the senior level. Then there was the fact that Lorraine was a senior in high school and wanted to finish her schooling before moving up.

If they had moved up to senior, they might have established themselves much as Pogrebinsky/Benoit did, or maybe they would have had a rough time. There is no way to know. However, if they had moved up, USFS would have sent them to senior internationals, not junior events.

The only time USFS sends Seniors to Junior events is Junior Worlds, and that is only in the single events. If a Senior skater needs the Junior TES minimums to compete at Junior Worlds, USFS will send the skater to a comp like Bavarian Open to get those scores. Otherwise, USFS doesn't send senior skaters to ISU B junior events.

USFS had to send the Greens (who competed junior domestically this season) to the Advanced Novice Ice Dance event at the Bavarian Open this year because Caroline didn't turn 13 until October, so wasn't age-eligible to skate in the Junior event.

Why don't you just stop trying to divert your diss at Sarah and go roast USFS for sending 19 years old to junior worlds rather than nurturing actual juniors like Tessa Hong and Starr Andrews. I saw much more outrage over Tessa Hong not getting an alternate for JWC and seniors already competing internationally get junior worlds than over Sarah at a small senior B.
 
Mango, we were wrong... we should have pushed for this thread to be in the fan fest. That way, we could have had a more positive space.

BUT WE WERE DAMN RIGHT : 80 pages and going strong!

Let's stand strong and with pride. Canadian skating for the win!
 
Sarah is by all means a junior skater. She competed twice on the Junior Grand Prix in 2016. She had no choice but to compete nationally at the senior level because she has already won a junior title. Fortunately she managed to get a top 5 finish at Nationals and get on the National Team for next season. Much like Roman Sadovsky in 2015. I am not sure why she should be classified as a senior skater based on her national competition level. She has no senior international competition experience.

There is absolutely no need to pressure junior athletes to compete at the senior level. If a need to compete at the senior level arises, as in the case of major events like the Olympics, then it's a decision to be made by the athlete along with their coaching team and the national skating body they represent. Right now neither Sarah, Joanne McLeod, or Skate Canada think she needs to move up internationally. McNamara/Carpenter may have made a mistake in not moving up. But that was their choice. As it should be.

Now that we've cleared up all the misconceptions let's move on to better things.

All the Canadians competing yesterday at Bavarian Open are in medal positions. Nic, Conrad, and Joseph are 1-2-3 in junior men. :2thumbs: They all missed a few levels and Joseph popped an Axel but otherwise they look good. Nic is back in business. Conrad's PCS improved. :)

Junior men's SP protocols

Natalie D'Alessandro and Bruce Waddell are sitting third in advanced novice ice dance after the Kilian and Blues pattern dances. Keep in mind that Skate Canada's novice ID pattern dances this season were Westminster Waltz and Quickstep at Nationals, and WW and Blues at Challenge. It won't be possible to catch the Greens but they have a fantastic FD to Cirque music so I hope they do well today.

PD1 protocols
PD2 protocols

Junior pairs Lori-Ann Matte / Thierry Ferland and Evelyn Walsh / Trennt Michaud are sitting 1st and 2nd respectively after the SP. M/F had a level 2 twist and their throw 3Lz and SBS 2 A had slightly negative GOE. Everything else was level 4 and positive GOEs. W/M went for the triple twist and got a level 1. Their death spiral was a level 2. A bit surprising to see M/F with higher PCS than W/M as nationally it was the opposite. But it looks like they deserve it with a personal best score. Want to say sorry to Trennt for always spelling his name wrong.

Junior pairs SP protocols
 
Mango, we were wrong... we should have pushed for this thread to be in the fan fest. That way, we could have had a more positive space.

BUT WE WERE DAMN RIGHT : 80 pages and going strong!

Let's stand strong and with pride. Canadian skating for the win!

I almost agree with you. But then, we wouldn't get to see angry or critical comments. It's telling when Canadian skaters do well who comes out with nothing but negativity. Of course, if it's not against the forum rules then it won't be stopped. But I recall that MaxSwagg did end up banned. So sometimes things work out.

I actually want to see some constructive criticism from time to time. But that seems to be limited to private conversations or the competition threads. Probably for the best.

What I don't want to see in this thread are accusations leveled at skaters. That stuff is not cool in my books.
 
Alex D just informed us that Natalie & Bruce came 4th. They had some mistakes in the FD. Oh well, not a bad effort. As the only novice Canadian ice dance team to get an international in a while (when was the last time someone was assigned??) it's great that they were able to get some experience. They won't be able to get on the JGP until 2018-2019 anyways so anything at this level helps.
 
Cross posting a bit

The Canadian junior men swept the podium at Bavarian Open.

1. Nicolas Nadeau 213.58
2. Conrad Orzel 197.45
3. Joseph Phan 197.28

Way to go guys. :clapper:

Here's a fancam of Nic's SP: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VTZ1SbjDMw

Ashlynne Stairs/Lee Royer sit 2nd and Marjorie Lajoie/Zachary Lagha 3rd in junior ice dance after the SD. One of L/L fell in the twizzles.

With Tessa & Scott's gold, Meagan & Eric as well as Gabby's silvers, Lubov/Dylan's bronze (all that 4CC), and the the three guys above, our medals count has gone up. There was definitely no need to rush to 40.

Medals count
19 gold, 13 silvers, 14 bronze = 46 medals in total
:dance3:
 
I almost agree with you. But then, we wouldn't get to see angry or critical comments. It's telling when Canadian skaters do well who comes out with nothing but negativity. Of course, if it's not against the forum rules then it won't be stopped. But I recall that MaxSwagg did end up banned. So sometimes things work out.

I actually want to see some constructive criticism from time to time. But that seems to be limited to private conversations or the competition threads. Probably for the best.

What I don't want to see in this thread are accusations leveled at skaters. That stuff is not cool in my books.

that is always welcomed in my books... but that's not what's happening here
 
I felt terrible for Kaetlyn today. She did her best to hold it together and strangely enough I think it could have been worse and while I'm one of the ones who thinks the judges should have scored her pcs in the 7's.......don't think that doesn't mean that I don't think she fought hard to keep the performance to that level. Just my take and I mean no disrespect to the girl, I understand her story and have followed her since Sochi, but my beef is with the judging. I think she stayed strong and in spite of some obvious disruptions kept fighting. The smile on the third fall was like a coming to terms with the moment right there on the ice type of thing. Cute but not really good for scores :)

They hosed Alaine today on PCS and it stunk but she can't keep opening the door for the judges to do so. I feel like her errors are written on her face and those errors are affecting TR, CH, P/E. Her interpretation is pretty solid and her FS is one of my favorites. Clean it up girl.

I don't remember anything about a Gabby today. I think I was awake while I was sleeping or something. Seems like she had something blue/green on.
 
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I almost agree with you. But then, we wouldn't get to see angry or critical comments. It's telling when Canadian skaters do well who comes out with nothing but negativity. Of course, if it's not against the forum rules then it won't be stopped. But I recall that MaxSwagg did end up banned. So sometimes things work out.

I actually want to see some constructive criticism from time to time. But that seems to be limited to private conversations or the competition threads. Probably for the best.

What I don't want to see in this thread are accusations leveled at skaters. That stuff is not cool in my books.

Nice to see and have that support from GS, even handling excessive bashing yesterday. Keep the faith guys, and congrats on soon to be page 82!
 
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As it turned out, if Sarah Tamura had been entered in the Senior Ladies event at the Bavarian Open, with her scores from the Junior event, she would have finished 5th as a Senior and earned 164 ISU World Ranking points.

1 Angela WANG USA 183.65
2 Nathalie WEINZIERL GER 181.50
3 Lea Johanna DASTICH GER 173.78
4 Seo Young LEE KOR 157.49
( Sarah TAMURA CAN 153.83 )
5 Mariia BESSONOVA RUS 152.69
 
I felt terrible for Kaetlyn today. She did her best to hold it together and strangely enough I think it could have been worse and while I'm one of the ones who thinks the judges should have scored her pcs in the 7's.......don't think that doesn't mean that I don't think she fought hard to keep the performance to that level. Just my take and I mean no disrespect to the girl, I understand her story and have followed her since Sochi, but my beef is with the judging. I think she stayed strong and in spite of some obvious disruptions kept fighting. The smile on the third fall was like a coming to terms with the moment right there on the ice type of thing. Cute but not really good for scores :)

They hosed Alaine today on PCS and it stunk but she can't keep opening the door for the judges to do so. I feel like her errors are written on her face and those errors are affecting TR, CH, P/E. Her interpretation is pretty solid and her FS is one of my favorites. Clean it up girl.

I don't remember anything about a Gabby today. I think I was awake while I was sleeping or something. Seems like she had something blue/green on.

my falling asleep comments ...

I was mostly awake for Alaine... it was early in the night... yah girl... you CANNOT afford to mess up your SP and get yourself in such an awkward ranking.

a couple carrots... very expected... DITCH the half loop combo my dear... It's not looking good on you.
the second lutz was carroted but it didn't disturb me as I am not always able to see them....
Still Alaine left the KnC with a close to 60 TES which was very good.... and would hold up quite high... if her PCS had been marked better. In general judges kept everyone low here....I feel that Alaine's low scores may have served as a comparison point with the next girls as not too many of them managed to get much higher.... so it seems to me, and I may be wrong, that after Alaine's skate, judges followed me on Alaine's SLAY bandwagon and didn't bring PCS too high for most skaters.

Kaetlyn : after the two combos, i thought, if she nails the lutz, she will bring this home... and BOOM.... it was a weird fall... it's like the jump happened before she wanted it to happen, like she went on automatic pilot there and didn't check in properly.... I thought... OMG... the loop is coming, her nemesis.... and wow!!! she managed it... I was so relieved.... She had the flip... but somehow on her running edge she fell... I wasn't happy with how this went... was it a fall on the landing affecting the jump or a freak fall.... In the end, I think the judges assigned the fall to the element... making it costly.... but yeah... she was definitely, after that, no longer there. Falling on the salchow seemed very painful... she took forever to wake up, as if she had resigned. She knew it was over for her as not only she had fallen on the 3S but couldn't add the two other jumps of the combo... and with being behind, she didn't have time to set up and even single the axel.

Kaetlyn went to the "top 3 room" with a big smile and an ice pack. I hope she is not seriously injured. I think it was a great experience for her to be considered the favourite of a competition. The W/D of Satoko happened too late for her to really deal with that idea IMHO... so I think nerves got to her... After the SP, she was pretty much in the driving seat. Especially after the two big combos in the LP. I think something didn't stay there in her focus... ice is dangerous my dear and it doesn't forgive. Be strong and come back with peace, poise and fight for worlds!

Gabby : I was tired but adrenaline came to me as I had flashbacks of TDF where the bad ice conditions and Gabby's performance didn't allow her on the podium... I could hear her saying "4th again" and that's the last thing I wanted to happen for her. I was pretty impressed with her. Combo was very nicely controlled. Then the lutz... good job... the flip with that crazy entrance into it... WOW... everything was great until she popped the loop... then stepped out of the axel... i got worried... but you could see her refocus and she took her time for the last sequence (3s-2a) and it was done properly. What I enjoyed the most is to see her damage control. She seemed extremely nervous to me.... and that's probably why she looked devastated in the KnC.... she could have taken first, but IMHO, she didn't need first... she needed the kind of skate where she could have easily fallen off to 4th or 5th but fought and held it together. She had the best PCS of the night...a bit low IMHO if we compare to the other girls because truly, she has improved tons in all aspects of PCS and delivered her performance well. My only little and it's tiny, issue with her programs is that they are very traditional. I would like her to find a choreographer who works FOR HER, understands her style.... I felt the same in the first years with Joannie Rochette... the girl could do wonders on the ice, but there wasn't yet a personal style... I think Gabby has so much spark and power, speed and refinement (at this point in time!!! YAY!) that a different approach may set her up differently and give her some more flair.

I was hoping for two medals... but Gabby's silver is certainly something she had awaited for a long time and I am so happy for her. I hope it helps her at WC next month... I really imagine that since the Japanese girls may be a bit injured, and that the American girls are quite fresh in international competitions that Canada could place two girls within the 13 points and bring 3 spots for next year. That would be very positive to see all our ladies pushing themselves yes for Nationals next year, but with a bit less pressure.

I have mentioned it before but if this trend continues... I would put Kaetlyn doing the SP at the team event, and Gabby in the LP.... another story though

PS Sam : i quoted you just to say that Gabby was indeed skating to rhapsody in blue ;) in blue !
 
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Never thought I'd see someone obsessed with Sarah Tamura. I'm not sure if she'd be flattered or a bit :scard7: of this attention as she is a 16 year old girl. She's on Instagram and Twitter in case you want to keep up with her.

If Sarah floats your boat there is a host of junior ladies from BC/YK that are also very fine skaters. Olivia Gran, Mckenna Colthorp, Emily Bausback, and Megan Yim to name a few. Some novice level ladies too, but they're younger so maybe not as interesting if you like Sarah.

Cricket Club is having a good week. Gabby and Luba/Dylan at 4CC, Stephen at Bavarian Open, and likely Yuzuru tonight with medals. Only ice dance without a medal...maybe next season with Natalie & Bruce.
 
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