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One correction: T/T beat I/Z in the Free Dance, but not overall at Skate America.
2016-17 State of Russian Ice Dance
- Thread starter gmyers
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One correction: T/T beat I/Z in the Free Dance, but not overall at Skate America.
Thank you. I edited above.
Exactly. The whole reason people go to Igor is for technical reasons. He has it down to a science.
Also, people keep pointing to Ponomarenko on the tech panel like Igor's teams walked away with all L4s, or at least their best levels of the season. None of them got higher than a L2 on step sequences in the FD, several of them got docked a level on their twizzles, and Lorenz/Polizoakis got hammered in the SD.
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Also, people keep pointing to Ponomarenko on the tech panel like Igor's teams walked away with all L4s, or at least their best levels of the season. None of them got higher than a L2 on step sequences in the FD, several of them got docked a level on their twizzles, and Lorenz/Polizoakis got hammered in the SD.
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S/B's music and choreography are indeed exciting to watch and its great to see their youthfulness come out. But when you look at her feet in particular and the tension in their holds you see that Bukin does a lot of heavy lifting for the team. You can always see it in her eyes when she's below par. She knows it and they're working on it. But at the EC and WC these things matter, so its not a case of whether TT are as intriguing as watching paint dry, the issue is their edges are clean, Ilia is not pulling his partner around and she's just as flexible as Sasha without the same posture issues. But you see if S/B weren't being told by Besti, Tat and Dad that they're the best thing since chantilly cream, they might not sound so ridiculous. While people have been berating C/L for their sameness, the quality of their skating has just flown through the roof this season. Once they add more interesting choreography they'll separate themselves further from both BS and C/L. I honestly thought that just for their artistry alone, C/L should have scored much higher than B/S at EC. TETO
S/B's music and choreography are indeed exciting to watch and its great to see their youthfulness come out. But when you look at her feet in particular and the tension in their holds you see that Bukin does a lot of heavy lifting for the team. You can always see it in her eyes when she's below par. She knows it and they're working on it. But at the EC and WC these things matter, so its not a case of whether TT are as intriguing as watching paint dry, the issue is their edges are clean, Ilia is not pulling his partner around and she's just as flexible as Sasha without the same posture issues. But you see if S/B weren't being told by Besti, Tat and Dad that they're the best thing since chantilly cream, they might not sound so ridiculous. While people have been berating C/L for their sameness, the quality of their skating has just flown through the roof this season. Once they add more interesting choreography they'll separate themselves further from both BS and C/L. I honestly thought that just for their artistry alone, C/L should have scored much higher than B/S at EC. TETO
You have a point here. I feel like one of the reasons why russian teams can't move forward is because the ones supervising them are so in denial. They've got to accept that they're ridiculously far from the best right now. It's the truth. As for C/L, I agree with you. Their quality of skating is what sets them apart... Also thought they should have scored much higher than B/S.
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I think S/B do themselves no favor with the mistakes they make, because the Fed really wants to push them, but it's not going to happen until they start to compete like B/S, consistently getting about the same levels. However, they do have a lack of presence on the ice for me, and some of their attempts at expressing emotion kind of fall flat, but YMMV.
They are #2 in and out of Russia, though, so it's obvious they are not going to go through the roof with their scores either way, but it's not like they are not evolving at their own speed. At least they're not going backwards, which is a lot more than we can say about some of the top teams in Russia.
They are #2 in and out of Russia, though, so it's obvious they are not going to go through the roof with their scores either way, but it's not like they are not evolving at their own speed. At least they're not going backwards, which is a lot more than we can say about some of the top teams in Russia.
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I'm a bit frustrated with the prospects for Russian dance. As many have already said, it's not necessarily a problem just with the skaters, but also with those around them refusing to see what needs improvement. To be honest, there have really only been two Russian programs this past quad that have really stuck with me, and those were I/Z's Carmen and B/S's Anna Karenina (I loved Frida too, but I can understand how it didn't go as far as I/Z would have hoped). S/B are okay, I don't despise them, but I can't remember a single program of theirs.
At this point, I think the best thing for Russian dance is also the least likely: that the federation, officials, even coaches stop living in denial and really push their teams to improve. They can't ride on reputation anymore; they have to earn back a lot of respect. I'm truly curious what will be the threshold that will finally make them wake up.
At this point, I think the best thing for Russian dance is also the least likely: that the federation, officials, even coaches stop living in denial and really push their teams to improve. They can't ride on reputation anymore; they have to earn back a lot of respect. I'm truly curious what will be the threshold that will finally make them wake up.
I can still watch I/Zs Carmen endlessly to this day. Of the three FD's I/Z have done the one one that fit them BOTH the most was Appassionata. They were a bit rough around the edges, and the program was a bit simplistic, but it was their most cohesive program and they can express emotions most genuinely of any Russian pair. They are exceedingly musical and talented as individual skaters. I'm hoping they begin to attract the attention of great choreographers. If their first season was any indication, they could do very good work.
Things are getting to a point where you have to wonder if anyone in Russian Fed still cares about dance! What changes were made when S/B and S/k were 9th and 11th last year? No change. They don't care they are only going to have 2 spots in dance at the Olympics.
What if somehow B/S can't do the Olympics and at the Olympics S/B are 15th and S/K are 20th? Very possible. Are changes made? They have already said after 2016 worlds "our number one team wasn't there! Who cares?" They need to stop that.
Russia is an extreme long shot to have 3 spots in dance and to even medal in dance! If they cared B/S would be training with Dubreil and Lauzon or Spiliband.
I think I should bring up many people thinking B/S "success" like 4th at gpf and 3rd at Euros is only because of extreme lobbying by Russian federation. Like how could a team such as B/S have a euro medals if Russia didn't work for them? But if Russia really cared why are they training in Russia? Why not exercise such power as make B/S number one team of Dubreil or Spiliband or a krylova?
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Pretty sure the Russian fed couldn't make B/S the number one team in Montreal even if they tried, since 1. the top two teams there are much more successful and 2. the three main coaches are Canadian and French. I doubt there's anything they could say or do to make MF and Patrice favour B/S over V/M, who they've mentored since they were competing. Might be different for the other two coaches you named.
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Maybe Krylova, but how's that work out for W/P? Good starts of season, not so good results at Worlds. And MF and Shpilband just have way too much on their plates to actually care for a Russian team right now, they'd have to put money on that, and we all know how Russia is not really spending that much money in dance.
And I think after everything that happened both with S/K and I/Z, that actually have spent some time out of Russia in the last years, the Fed isn't really that keen on experiencing that again, to be quite honest. B/S have only a season left in their careers, I doubt they would want to change their lives so much right now. S/B just have way too much love from the Russian crowd right now to be sent over the seas.
The juniors, however, could use to world experience, of course.
That's true about V/M and D/l. Then they will surely favor P/c over any Russian team but being number 2 in their school has to be better than kustarova 1! Then if the federation cares about dance they pay d/l to make the Russian team a priority! Krylova and spiliband are different but same situation. You pay them!
A lot depends on what the reaction is to Russia not medaling in ice dance for the first time ever In pyeongchang. It could be a big nothing. But if it does happen and there is a great negative reaction and why did the federation let dance collapse maybe the new senior teams -the one that debuted in seniors in 2017-2018 or 2018-2019 be sent to train in the US with lots of funding. Or if that's not possible then they import foreign specialist to Russia to train Russians. And a lot of these people would be originally be from Russia! They would have to get paid a lot though. But if people care that Russia didn't medal in dance for the first time ever at an Olympics maybe they will take some money from ladies and send it to dance.
In Ice Dance right now the power centers are Detroit, Montreal and even Milan now is better than Russia. No one in Europe outside of Russia, Belarus, and Armenia have people train in Russia. Milan is now a bigger ice dance center than Moscow! I was shocked!
It could be a step in the right direction possibly.
I'm hoping they both have decent skates and they finish at least 4th and 9th. Otherwise Russia doesn't get 3 spots for Olympics, :eeking:. To be honest I'm not interested in the performances just the placements. Does that make any sense?
If your top priority is 3 spots placement is the only thing that matters. If both teams are good but are 6th and 8th that's not good for three spots. If B/S is good and fourth and s/b stink and are 9th who cares if s/b stunk?
I don't care about their programs or how they skate them I just want every element to be level 3 or higher! Only step sequences can go below 4 but it's absolutely not acceptable if any lift or spin or twizzle is not level 4- because that's abnormal. Every competent team should get level 4 spins, lifts and twizzles. IJS tells you how to do this! It's not a big secret.
Maybe the Russian teams will be comfortable in Helsinki. It's right next door! Could be a lot of Russians in the crowd.
Everyone must be prepared for something like 8th and 15th though! Then you would either have "well Russia only had two spots for Salt Lake City" after whatever happened there.
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Lol so far it's taken people nearly a year to know Russia only has two spots for this years worlds so I wonder if people will be asking next year why there are only two Russian dance teams at the Olympics.
YES
And it honestly shouldn't. I don't think Russia deserves a third spot, with the mess they have created. Not only that, it is also time for Russia to accept that they're not gonna medal in the Olympics for the first time ever. If there was a third spot though, fingers crossed that it's gonna be I/Z. The last thing I would want to see in this world is for S/K to qualify for the Olympics. Just No. They're the epitome of disgusting. Still not over what they did back in 2014. So nasty... And the way it was done... Going behind Elena's back, scheming with the Russian Fed? Are you kidding me? Who does that?!
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