State of U.S. Ladies' skating 2016-17

[Moxiejan]

I hope Ashley can channel that fighting spirit she has shown in the past because if Polina comes back, it's going to be a packed field. I would love to see Ashley earn a spot because she has done so much the last 5 seasons to help the US maintain three spots for worlds.

Why the special emphasis on "earn"? When has Ashley done anything but "earn" her spot?

 

[Mrs. P]

Why the special emphasis on "earn"? When has Ashley done anything but "earn" her spot?

I think the emphasis is there that she places in the top 3 at nationals so there is no question. I did not have a problem with the Sochi decision, but for Ashley's sake, might be nice to not have to lean on a committee decision.

 

[Bluediamonds09]

So, who thinks that Daphnis and Chloe will make a comeback?? Gracie never performed it to its potential but if she had, would it still be her cup of tea? Flailing footwork section aside, this wasn't Lori's best work. I keep wondering who this program would fit... Mariah or Tessa? Someone else?
I don't think Daphnis and Chloe will come back as much as I think Firebird will. or will Lori give it to another skater?
But , what does Marina have up her sleeve? Will she be giving Gracie a whole new program? She is the one who gave Gracie Sleeping Beauty, right? (Which, tbh, I think was given to Gracie more on the pressure of usfsa to try to turn her into an ice princess)

 

[apgold]

So, who thinks that Daphnis and Chloe will make a comeback?? Gracie never performed it to its potential but if she had, would it still be her cup of tea? Flailing footwork section aside, this wasn't Lori's best work. I keep wondering who this program would fit... Mariah or Tessa? Someone else?
I don't think Daphnis and Chloe will come back as much as I think Firebird will. or will Lori give it to another skater?
But , what does Marina have up her sleeve? Will she be giving Gracie a whole new program? She is the one who gave Gracie Sleeping Beauty, right? (Which, tbh, I think was given to Gracie more on the pressure of usfsa to try to turn her into an ice princess)

My guess is Gracie might want a whole new program and break from Lori's choreo. Lori can be brilliant with certain skaters (Mao, Carolina, Sui/Han, and Boyang) but she and Gracie were never a good fit, IMO.

 

[Moxiejan]

I think the emphasis is there that she places in the top 3 at nationals so there is no question. I did not have a problem with the Sochi decision, but for Ashley's sake, might be nice to not have to lean on a committee decision.

But the "top 3 at nationals" assumes that anything other than that is some sort of overturning of the established process. The rules for 2014 (published in 2013) said only that the 1st place skater was on the team; all other spots were selected according to the criteria, which included nationals PLUS a list of other events. For 2017 Worlds, it went even further, with not even the winner being guaranteed a spot.

Unless all this is tossed out for 2018 (which we'll know by summer), there is nothing magical about "top 3 at nationals."
USFS very deliberately does not designate its nationals as a binding Olympic trials (similar to swimming and track);
that would require giving up some control/funding to USOC. It has a series of qualifying events and, yes, a committee decision.

Every year that Ashley has been on Worlds/Olympic teams, she has earned that spot based on selection rules in place at the time.

 

[Bluediamonds09]

My guess is Gracie might want a whole new program and break from Lori's choreo. Lori can be brilliant with certain skaters (Mao, Carolina, Sui/Han, and Boyang) but she and Gracie were never a good fit, IMO.

So you think marina will do Gracie 's choreography? I wonder what music....please please no warhorse music, marina! TBH I have no idea in what direction she'll go next season.

 

[apgold]

So you think marina will do Gracie 's choreography? I wonder what music....please please no warhorse music, marina! TBH I have no idea in what direction she'll go next season.

That's probably what will happen - Marina will do her programs this season. I'd like her to work with Misha Ge (he did her Bang Bang EX), I think he'd bring out a different side of Gracie like he did with Anna P's short.

 

[LRK]

About Polina - She's nothing if not driven. I never really doubted that she'd come back - the only caveat being health related. But, supposing her health allows it, I don't think the fact that she enjoyed other things while she couldn't compete shows she's lost all interest in figure skating. I'm not sure what she should have done - posted pictures of herself draped disconsolately over furniture, thus signifying despair and her life being nothing without figure skating?

About Gracie - I fully expect Marina to do her choreography, as it makes perfect sense, as she is her coach. Which is also why I don't think one should pay too much attention to the programs Marina gave Gracie before. She knows her better now, she spends more time with her; she also has more leisure to try out different music & style choices and see what fits Gracie. And she may yet duplicate her Gershwin Violin & Sleeping Beauty work - but she doesn't have to.

 

[princessalica]

Misha Ge said at Worlds that he was heading to the Us to choreograph for Gracie among others. Might just be an exhibition, but they are working together.

 

[silverlake22]

I think Polina will try to come back. We will see how it goes. She's always been a good competitor and she's always been involved in things outside of skating so I'm not too concerned about her being in college. She went to an actual full time high school when she was competing before and did fine. To me it just seems clear that skating is an important part of Polina's life, not her entire life. I think her fate will mostly depend on her ability to get back her 3-3s and rotate her triples, plus avoid getting edge calls on her flips and lutzes (one of those is okay). She's never really been one to fall apart in competiton, so I think her comeback could be successful and if it is isn't it's likely to be due to UR jumps, not something that would be publicly embarrassing for her.

 

[ice coverage]

Per Ashley's Instagram stories yesterday, she had a major video shoot (including TelePrompter) for Zico Coconut -- which at least suggests that a sponsorship is in the works.

If/when officially announced, it would be a very nice sponsorship to have, in my estimation. I had not realized that Zico is one of Coca-Cola's brands -- and is "the official coconut water of the Olympic Games." Zico had only two athletes as brand ambassadors for the 2016 Games.

http://www.coca-colacompany.com/stories/sports/2016/inside-cokes-stills-brand-campaigns-for-rio-2016​

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... I read half of USFS cash come from corporate sponsors. The last thing they wanted during the Olympics was to defend their brand, when all they wanted was increased market interest.

... But Gracie became the brand new it girl in skating with her 4th place finish. So placement at the games had a major effect on how they were perceived and treated post games.

Water under the bridge, but ...

I did not get the impression in 2014 that the controversy over Ashley's selection rose to the level of sponsors being put in the position of needing to defend their brand.

Even when the discussion on GS got quite heated, I do not recall a single comment suggesting that any GS member opposed to Ashley's selection were going to take her/his unhappiness out on a sponsor. AFAIK, no one said, "I never will stay at a Hilton again" or "I never will buy Cover Girl cosmetics again" or anything like that. And I do not recall anyone saying that s/he would refuse to tune into NBC.

And for better or worse, Gracie already had been hyped as an It Girl before she ever set foot in Sochi.
She already had been on the cover of Sports Illustrated's Olympic issue. She already had been Jay Leno's guest on The Tonight Show. She already had been appearing in United Airline's signature TV ads for the Olympics. Etc.

And before Gracie ever competed in Sochi, she already was very much in NBC's spotlight -- with NBC featuring her during the Opening Ceremony, for example.
(So happened that Ashley took one for the team and did not march in the Opening Ceremony in order to save her energy for the Team SP, but my hunch is that NBC would have showcased Gracie regardless.)

Before and after Sochi, Ashley was quite visible as well (and I was a bigger fan of Ashley than Gracie), but if I had to name only one as receiving greater pre-Sochi hype, I would have to say that it was Gracie.​

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... The rules for 2014 (published in 2013) said only that the 1st place skater was on the team; all other spots were selected according to the criteria, which included nationals PLUS a list of other events. ...

To be clear:

For the 2014 Olympics, the U.S. champions were *not* guaranteed spots on the Sochi team, per the USFS selection criteria.

http://usfigureskating.org/content/OlympicSelection.pdf​

In 2014, the U.S. champions were guaranteed spots only on the World team.​

---

Polina's Instagram story today was of her shooting footage for the Olympic channel and included a triple jump. I'd say it's a fair bet that she is going to make a run next year :hap85:

Adding more detail re Polina:

Her Instagram stories yesterday showed extensive shooting for the Olympic Channel by a professional crew.
All kinds of stuff -- working on ice with Rudy Galindo + off-ice training + non-skating stuff -- outside on campus, inside her dorm room (as far as I could tell), interviewing her friend ... etc.

Using the hashtag "#comeback," Rudy posted video of the shooting of Polina's triple:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BT44EFHF0mx/?taken-by=rudyvalgalindo (May 9)​

FWIW, Rudy referred to, "Filming a documentary series with Polina Edmunds," although I will take the "series" part with a grain of salt until we actually see the final product. (Maybe what he meant is that [only] one part of an Olympic Channel series will focus on Polina???)

https://www.instagram.com/p/BT40WTflfH0/?taken-by=rudyvalgalindo​

In any case, it is apparent that the Olympic Channel is taking Polina's comeback seriously.​

---

FWIW, at least for NBC, I think Gracie still is somewhat in the mix re marketing.
For the NBC promo shoot, I believe NBC did shooting on ice (real ice) at the East West rink only with Nathan, Karen, Ashley, Gracie, and the Shibs.
(The other skaters invited by NBC were shot on artificial ice on the West Hollywood set, but not on real ice, AFAIK.)

That said, Ashley and Nathan are the ones who have been prominent (both before and after the promo shoot) in NBC promos for 2018.

Lest anyone wonder:
No, I do not think marketing considerations should affect selection for the Olympics (or for Worlds). Yes, I think for any lady, it is her skating during the coming season that should make or break her when it comes to team selection. I wish all of them the best with their skating.

 

[mrrice]

Misha Ge said at Worlds that he was heading to the Us to choreograph for Gracie among others. Might just be an exhibition, but they are working together.

If this is true, it would be the smartest move Gracie has ever made. If she were to have Misha and Marina in her corner she would certainly be setting herself up for success. IMO, just looking over to the boards and seeing Marina and Misha would give me a huge boost of confidence. At this point in her career, that's all Gracie really needs. I feel like Misha could really help Gracie get her groove back....They are close enough in age that she could trust and confide in him. There were times that I got the feeling that Gracie and Frank were just not connected. I thought it had to do with the tremendous age difference. I may have been wrong but, I felt like Gracie didn't have a friend close to her this year. Now that her sister Carly isn't in the rink anymore, I think Gracie may have felt lonely and a bit unsure of why she was still out there.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Every year that Ashley has been on Worlds/Olympic teams, she has earned that spot based on selection rules in place at the time.

I absolutely agree. It would just be nice if the selected team mirrored the podium so that there aren't any objections. At this point, I think that is very likely unless someone does something exceptional on the GP circuit and underperforms at Nationals.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Lest anyone wonder:
No, I do not think marketing considerations should affect selection for the Olympics (or for Worlds). Yes, I think for any lady, it is her skating during the coming season that should make or break her when it comes to team selection. I wish all of them the best with their skating.

I dont think marketing considerations will affect the selection process at all. Any sponsorships that our skaters have are minor and are not the result of winning any major titles.

 

[andromache]

So, who thinks that Daphnis and Chloe will make a comeback?? Gracie never performed it to its potential but if she had, would it still be her cup of tea? Flailing footwork section aside, this wasn't Lori's best work. I keep wondering who this program would fit... Mariah or Tessa? Someone else?
I don't think Daphnis and Chloe will come back as much as I think Firebird will. or will Lori give it to another skater?
But , what does Marina have up her sleeve? Will she be giving Gracie a whole new program? She is the one who gave Gracie Sleeping Beauty, right? (Which, tbh, I think was given to Gracie more on the pressure of usfsa to try to turn her into an ice princess)

Daphnis et Chloe was an unrealized masterpiece, IMO, right down to the packaging. Still, it wasn't for Gracie, especially from Gracie this past season. Lori should give it to Tessa Hong, IMO, although of course that'd be tacky.

Gracie will probably get choreo from Marina. Marina's singles choreo rarely impresses me, but it will at least be something DIFFERENT for Gracie. Something fresh. In my dreams Gracie works with Shae-Lynn or Jeff Buttle or Misha Ge, but I'll be surprised if she gets competitive programs from anyone other than Marina.

 

[noidont]

This is totally not true. Coco-cola, Visa etc. are major sponsors USFSA depends on. For the sponsors it doesn't matter whether the selection process is controversial, which is one day's headline and only a heated topic among diehard fans. only It matters that the athletes they signed and put up on social media or advertisement billboards are seen on TV during the Olympics competing. Remember Gabby Douglas 2016? Gracie and Ashley seem to have legit agents who are getting them spots. The rest of the pack don't, which put them at a disadvantage.

 

[Jammers]

I just want to see Gracie fit and ready come September when the Olympic season starts. I don't expect her to suddenly be consistent and win everything in sight but at least if she is in shape she has a chance but if she stays out of shape like last season she might as well retire.

 

[bytheriver]

This is totally not true. Coco-cola, Visa etc. are major sponsors USFSA depends on. For the sponsors it doesn't matter whether the selection process is controversial, which is one day's headline and only a heated topic among diehard fans. only It matters that the athletes they signed and put up on social media or advertisement billboards are seen on TV during the Olympics competing. Remember Gabby Douglas 2016? Gracie and Ashley seem to have legit agents who are getting them spots. The rest of the pack don't, which put them at a disadvantage.

I agree with much of what you're saying, but I feel the need to clarify that Gabby made the team because she is strong at bars - an area where the US needed support for the team event - and was a decent all-arounder in a way that the other two options for her spot (Mykayla and Ashton) were not. It was more of an issue of team USA having backups for the team event on every discipline than Gabby having sponsors. So not the same issue as here.

If Ashley or Gracie get major sponsorships (and I don't see either getting Visa now that Sui/Han have them) and end up placing lower than other strong competitors, I could see them being left behind and dropped by their sponsor. Coca-Cola has done those types of things before where they support an athlete early on, the athlete underperforms, and they drop them and pick up another athlete in their place.

Also, Gracie has the same agent as Mirai and Karen. Ashley is signed to CAA, I believe, and they have pull but not the kind of pull that would get her on the team if she placed 5th. 4th again, maybe, but based on her accomplishments (WSM), not her sponsors.

 

[hippomoomin]

I think Ashley should go to OG next year unless she significantly under-performs. I don't like her over-exaggerated style but to be fair, she is the most consistent lady in the past 6 years.

Based on the video posted in the thread, Polina does not look in a good shape. I know it is earlier but considering the lack of training for almost a year, and her URs even when she was healthy, her chances are not better than Ashley. Not to mention she is at the age when many female skaters go downhill in jump abilities. But she probably has better motivation and mentally tougher than Gracie. We will wait and see.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

This is totally not true. Coco-cola, Visa etc. are major sponsors USFSA depends on. For the sponsors it doesn't matter whether the selection process is controversial, which is one day's headline and only a heated topic among diehard fans. only It matters that the athletes they signed and put up on social media or advertisement billboards are seen on TV during the Olympics competing. Remember Gabby Douglas 2016? Gracie and Ashley seem to have legit agents who are getting them spots. The rest of the pack don't, which put them at a disadvantage.

I don't think Coca-Cola or Visa will demand that the world's 7th ranked skater be on the Olympic team when they can very easily reshoot commercials to include surprise members. It isn't as if Visa is going to pull their USOC sponsorship if Gracie isn't on the team. Now, if we had an iconic skater like Michelle competing, then commercial considerations could be a factor.