Uh well...She does seem to be wearing a stragically placed sweatshirt, no? And it isn't that I am not sympathetic, I've been there. By 22 I had control over my weight, but at 17, puberty and weight gain destroyed whatever skating career I had.
2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating
- Thread starter R.D.
- Start date
Uh well...She does seem to be wearing a stragically placed sweatshirt, no? And it isn't that I am not sympathetic, I've been there. By 22 I had control over my weight, but at 17, puberty and weight gain destroyed whatever skating career I had.
At Glacier Falls 2015, Polina was testing out her new programs. She went full out with her short program, which included all her triples and marked her long, which include singles as place holders. This time she already had the programs and she's coming back from injury, so it's custom to have full programs. I don't think this deliberate at all. I follow her on Instagram. A few months ago she posted a temp video of her doing her Lutz on the harness. She attempts every jump except for her 3Lz and 3F, both jumps are the ones she physically couldn't do because of her injury.
When someone has been injured for that long coming back takes a long time. She may be determined, but reprogramming your head after injuries is hard.
I'm not saying she won't, but I think she needs time.
Those happen to be the four also invited to the USOC Media Summit later this fall. I'd agree that AT THIS POINT IN TIME they appear to be the main contenders (although I'd probably be more inclined to put Bell in the "dark horse" category and list Chen/Wagner/Nagasu as the 3 big contenders). I also would not count out Polina Edmunds, and yes, Gracie Gold as well. As soon as the season begins, though, things can- and may- shift around.
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- Jul 31, 2014
this feels like a set up for a Caroline Zhang joke.
More seriously, I think who the girl is and how the season goes for M&M. I think a GP medal for either of them over someone with only Senior Bs and not medal would go. Mariah is lovable and has buzz (and a coach that will be there anyway making logistics easier) Mirai is a fan favorite who at this point is a fabulous good ol' America comeback story. Really if on paper it supports either of them going, i don't see why they would not follow their own rules and send either as they are both great choices.
I also think that USFSA might see the value of sending the ladies that were invited to the Olympic photo shoot. The more stock footage of figure skaters NBC uses the more free advertising for figure skating USFSA gets. And if NBC does not have stock footage... they can't use stock footage. Sadly the choice on paper may look like a bronze medalist like Angela Wang or Courtney Hicks, or sending the girl that comes with the equivalent of a free commercial from NBC, and that might be very tempting.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2012
FWIW:
Leading up to Sochi, Denney/Coughlin were invited to and took part in both the spring 2013 NBC promotional shoot and in the autumn 2013 USOC media summit.
At 2014 Nats, Denney/Coughlin placed third -- only 0.29 behind silver medalists Zhang/Barholomay.
US pairs had two slots for Sochi, and Denney/Coughlin were not selected over Z/B.
Yes, pairs is a different discipline from ladies.
But I don't buy your theory that USFS would be so cynical as to be tempted to take marketing considerations into account.
(I am not saying that D/C should have been selected for Sochi. Just commenting on your theory. I was extremely happy for Z/B.)
Still, the cynical part of me wonders if Wagner had NOT placed 4th, and was sent as part of the top 3 - and all other results were the same - whether this would have been a sure thing or not.
Doing it once raised enough of an outcry - but doing it twice - well, alarm bells would have gone off.
Regardless of your thoughts on the Wagner decision, you gotta admit that she had a LOT of commercialization and sponsorships riding on her. Looks like that could once again be the case this year.
I'm having trouble with that too. Does it mean she just won't be spending as much time preparing as she usually would? The news about her dad is disturbing. That certainly will reduce their income significantly for awhile.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2012
Going only by the selection criteria (which were from the current and preceding season), USFS was justified in selecting Ashley for Sochi.
I am a huge Mirai fan (also an Ashley fan), and I do not think that the USFS selection committee thought for one second about sponsorship considerations.
What I would call "alarm bells" (whether warranted or not) DID go off in 2014, based only on the decision in favor of Ashley.
I do not think the level of controversy in 2014 would have been any higher if USFS had selected D/C as well.
In fact, one could argue that the controversy over Ashley might have been slightly diminished if USFS had selected D/C (for whom a not unreasonable case could have been made that they met the selection critieria better than Z/B).
Meaning that Ashley would not have been the sole "beneficiary" of the selection criteria.
All of that said, I will point out that my post about D/C was in response to DMD's and StitchMonkey's posts about what would happen if Mirai or Mariah were to place fourth at Nats. None of us were talking about what would happen if Ashley were to place fourth again.
(As much as I love Mirai and Mariah, they have little -- in comparison to Ashley -- riding on them in the way of commercialization and sponsorships.)
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2014
The thing is.... i actually think that if Riverdance had not happened John and Caydee would have been sent, and had Jason done a more normal for Jason skate and not "Riverdance" Max would have gone as well. The problem was I think Max had a stronger argument to go then Caydee and John...and sending them, but not Max would have looked even messier. So they just tried to be somewhat consistent. Who knows what could have happened... but i have wondered this for awhile.
I am not saying it is cynical... I am saying it is practical.
Imagine you are on the deciding panel, you personally know people who are looking at laying off great coaches that you care about. They are hanging on in the hope that the Olympics will inject some cash and make it work and not have to uproot families. Given the choice to send the person who comes with a free commercial and maybe... just maybe bolster popularity just enough to keep those layoffs from happening... you think it is cynical to go for the option that keeps jobs? Because I don't... I also don't envy those that have to make these kinds of decisions. I don't think wanting to keep this sport financially viable is cynical...frankly I think we need to think in these terms.
Sometimes the net benefit decision is not the fair one... it sucks but I am not going to pretend it is not the case. Nor would I condemn someone for thinking in terms of what is best for the sport in the big picture sense. I was not trying to paint the picture of a villain... but rather someone who cares for this sport tearfully trying to decide whose heart(s) to break. If they think the financial choice leads to less pain over all... I don't see that as a bad choice.
Perhaps. disordered is not the correct word, but , to expect that her problem is likely to be solved or significantly helped with a few months of help seems unrealistic.
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- Jul 9, 2014
How are Tessa Hong and Vivian looking this summer? Along with Angela and Courtney, they could be in the mix.
Gee, Gracie's dad's problems, alone, would be enough to have some effect on her skating.
http://www.sj-r.com/news/20170528/f...er-fighting-to-get-medical-license-reinstated
http://www.sj-r.com/news/20170528/f...er-fighting-to-get-medical-license-reinstated
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- Jul 9, 2014
My goodness, no wonder she needs a break. I'm sure her father's problems are never far from her mind and it must be difficult to focus on skating when your family is going through something like this. I hope she's able to recover but, if she takes the season off, I will totally understand.
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- Aug 12, 2014
Regarding the discussion about selection criteria, Dave Lease tweeted a few days ago:
I would add it depends on their performance at Nationals, as that's the #1 criteria, but maybe that's stating the obvious.
Dave's tweets in the last two days were very supportive of Gracie. I'm only speculating, but who's to say that his previous tweets about Gracie (and I'm one of those who was a bit shocked by some of them) may have helped her come to the decision to seek help, which we all applaud. #playingdevil'sadvocate#
Based on the selection criteria, Wagner and Chen would virtually lock up spots with a medal on the Grand Prix
2:36 PM - 28 Aug 2017 https://twitter.com/SkatingLesson/status/902283843729625088
2:36 PM - 28 Aug 2017 https://twitter.com/SkatingLesson/status/902283843729625088
Looking at 2017: Nagasu's Four Continents silver could count as much/more than Bell's finishes. The two are about even going into season
2:45 PM - 28 Aug 2017 https://twitter.com/SkatingLesson/status/902285958195924992
2:45 PM - 28 Aug 2017 https://twitter.com/SkatingLesson/status/902285958195924992
I would add it depends on their performance at Nationals, as that's the #1 criteria, but maybe that's stating the obvious.
Dave's tweets in the last two days were very supportive of Gracie. I'm only speculating, but who's to say that his previous tweets about Gracie (and I'm one of those who was a bit shocked by some of them) may have helped her come to the decision to seek help, which we all applaud. #playingdevil'sadvocate#
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2012
I do not agree with your assumptions as to "what is best for the sport in the big picture sense."
Very, very hypothetically:
For the sake of discussion only, what if Mirai (nearest and dearest to my heart) were to place fourth at Nats and Courtney were to place third?
I think it would be wrong for the selection committee to give Mirai any extra consideration b/c she participated in the NBC and USOC media events.
One could just as easily argue that it could be a good story for USFS and NBC if a dark horse like Courtney were able to earn her way onto the Olympic team.
Courtney's journey could be inspiring to a lot of skaters who might decide to stay in the sport longer than otherwise and/or to new skaters who decide to start taking lessons -- all of whom would need to pay coaches.
Selecting Courtney could be just as likely to keep jobs as selecting Mirai.
I think it would be wrong for the selection committee to give Mirai any extra consideration b/c she participated in the NBC and USOC media events.
One could just as easily argue that it could be a good story for USFS and NBC if a dark horse like Courtney were able to earn her way onto the Olympic team.
Courtney's journey could be inspiring to a lot of skaters who might decide to stay in the sport longer than otherwise and/or to new skaters who decide to start taking lessons -- all of whom would need to pay coaches.
Selecting Courtney could be just as likely to keep jobs as selecting Mirai.
I would add that in the period between the Olympic team announcement in January and the Games in February, NBC (if it wanted to) theoretically would have time to shoot a bit with a dark horse like Courtney. (The possibility of surprise Olympians is one of the many reasons why NBC works far ahead to get stuff recorded early with the likeliest prospects.)
I don't recall what happened with dark horse Jason in terms of NBC Olympics fluff during Sochi.
He was not at the 2013 NBC shoot, nor at the 2013 USOC summit.
Did NBC Olympics shoot any stuff with Jason in the interval btwn 2014 Nats and Sochi?
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Good question. And good whole post, IMO. I don't remember either, but I don't recall any of the US men ... Jeremy, Jason, Richard, Max ... getting nearly as much advertising "exposure" as Gracie did. Looks like that's reversed this year, as Olympic ads already feature Nathan.
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What Grand Prix showing would be sufficient in your opinion? Mirai and Mariah are both at CoR and NHK. At CoR, some of their main competitors are Evgenia Medvedeva, Elena Radionova, Carolina Kostner, Wakaba Higuchi and Elizabet Tursynbayeva.
Obviously Evgenia will win, and Elena and Carolina especially are tough competitors. And Wakaba and Elizabet have both split placements with Mirai and Mariah in the past. So a bronze medal would be a great result.
At NHK, Evgenia and Carolina are there, along with Polina Tsurskaya and Satoko Miyahara, etc. Now both Polina T and Satoko are ?? Do to injuries, but if healthy they could both beat the US ladies too, so medals are no sure thing.
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Oh no...... it's really really gonna be an uphill battle for the US ladies at rostelecom. Look at the competition!
It's looking kinda good for them at skate America, on home ice, though.
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Jeremy and Max were in the ads and so was Evan L. That was again, because those things are filmed very early before the season ever starts and way before Evan got hurt at Champs Camp later that summer.
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- Sep 14, 2008
Things are different now.
Denney/Coughlin were considered propped up to have scored that closely to 2nd place anyway and they had just come back from injury (and weren't doing anything special on the pairs scene before getting injured...), so there wasn't much of a need to veer away from Nationals results.
Just doing good performances, the actual placements won't matter as much since the hometown skaters + Carolina Kostner can easily get propped up over the Americans at CoR and NHK. Like, it's possible Mariah Bell could do a clean SP and clean 7-Triple LP, yet only finish 5th at CoR. That kind of skating would still make a big statement though.
However, Kostner is rarely in great shape earlier in the season, so I think Nagasu and Bell should aim towards beating her at both events. Miyahara seems to be having troubles coming back from her injury also, so Nagasu and Bell both being on the NHK podium is very realistic.
