2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating

[Moxiejan]

Does anybody know if Ashley is using a different cut to her Moulin Rouge program? I love that program but why would you repeat something you did your best at?

Because that program gives you your best chance to do your best again.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Mirai winning Nationals would set the record for longest duration between winning a title for a singles skater, right? 10 years since her win in 2008.

 

[samson]

^I think it should. If I remember Terry Gannon said something to that affect at last years nationals too.

 

[Sasha'sSpins]

This is the way almost all young girls speak when they are with friends and being a little silly. It doesn't mean they are immature or unintelligent, although it can seem that way to the older generation.

I find all of the girls charming in their different ways of describing their program, I enjoy listening to Karen Chen and watching her seriousness crack a little with a smile is just as endearing as Nagasu's whimsical stuff.

Agreed, though I'm of an 'older generation' than Mirai and I think she was enchanting in those reaction vids! Some people just have no sense of humor and are fuddy duddys irregardless of their age imo. Other skaters besides Mirai were droll and funny in the vids. None, including Mirai were immature, etc.

 

[pearly]

I was saying that I will listen to a person who expresses themself is proper words and normal voice rather than a person using "like, ummmm, yeah" and vocal fry. (I have no desire to rewatch the video but I don't think Mirai used vocal fry - thank god.)

This has less to do with Mirai and more to do with the trend where girls will try to giggle and sound dumb because it's what they see on TV. I know what work and mental strength it takes to be a world class athlete and I wish all female skaters - who are already judged and talked about differently than male skaters - would take that step.

I won't lose any sleep over people not agreeing with this

 

[nimi]

Looks like the "hello people who only watch figure skating every four years, the Olympics are approaching!" type of coverage is slowly getting underway...

UPI's "Meet the contenders" names Wagner, Chen and Nagasu as the "three women to watch" https://www.upi.com/Sports_News/2017/09/18/Figure-skating-run-for-Olympics-taking-shape-Meet-contenders-for-Team-USA/9921505779731/

NBC noticed Mirai's rinkside videos http://olympics.nbcsports.com/2017/09/17/mirai-nagasu-marin-honda-us-international-classic-figure-skating/

- - - - -

I probably should refrain from further discussion about female skaters' speech patterns but I'm a bit of a linguistics nerd (including sociolinguistics) and I just can't help myself! Feel free to ignore the rest of this post!

Claiming that girls "sound dumb because it's what they see on TV"... You're right @pearly, not everybody is going to agree with this opinion of yours.
Although, since associating being/sounding "girly" with being/sounding "dumb", "vapid", "unserious" etc. is deeply embedded in our culture (where femaleness and femininity in general and girliness in particular is traditionally devalued while masculinity is valued), I'm sure you'll find a lot of people agreeing with you and even being FURIOUS with girls/women daring to use upspeak, vocal fry etc... while probably not even noticing when men do those exact same things!

It does seem like it's at least in part a generational thing. You mentioned vocal fry?

Glass talked to linguist Penny Eckert, who did a study asking people to rate how authoritative a radio reporter with vocal fry sounded. The response depended on the age of the rater. Those under 40 thought it sounded authoritative while those over 40 did not. Basically, as summed up by Glass, “if people are having a problem with these reporters on the radio, what it means is they're old.”

Also this::

ECKERT: And particularly - so when I first started teaching in 1973, I lowered the pitch of my voice intentionally in order to be taken seriously. I mean, I was one of three women in a faculty of 35 people - in a department of 35 people. And it was clear they didn't want me there (laughter) - or some people didn't want me there. Now I have - we get new assistant professors. They're not worried about trying to sound authoritative. I have a colleague who has a very high, girly voice. And it's not a problem. And it may be a problem for some people. But you only get change by not allowing it to be a problem to you.

Living languages change all the time and every generation of speakers comes up with new ways of using language to communicate, but funnily enough, it's girls and young women who tend to get ridiculed, dismissed and even vilified because of the way they speak that's just typical of their generation and demographic. (There's an academic but highly readable book called Images of English for anybody who's interested in the historical perspective.) No amount of USFSA media training or censure from elderly figure skating judges (or fans) is going to make the girls these days act and sound exactly like serious and proper young ladies the older generations might want them to be. Keep judging and dismissing the girls these days for the way they speak if you must, but I wish people would stop claiming they're doing these girls a favor when they're just promoting the old idea that a girl speaking like a "typical girl" instead of using a "normal voice" (because girls aren't "normal people", I guess?) means she deserves to be dismissed and stereotyped as "dumb" and her voice and words don't deserve to be heard by "serious people".

 

[klutzonice]

That was a really informative post, nimi! I didn't realise this was such a big topic as it's not reported/commented upon where I live. I definitely agree with all your sentiments.

 

[fredtx121]

Status of US Ladies Figure Skating right now looks very grim for the upcoming Olympics. The ladies are not strong enough technically to compete with the Russian or Japanese skaters. Only Ashley Wagner can compete artistically with them, but technically is way out of the league.
The top 6 US ladies who have the best shot to make it to the Olympics are Karen Chen, Ashley Wagner, Polina Edmunds, Mariah Bell, Mirai Nagasu, and if she comes back Gracie Gold.
Karen Chen is the best hope with great spins and speed, but her inconsistency with the jumps will be the reason why she will never make the medal podium.
Ashley Wagner- as stated before, artistically she is right up there but her skating skills, under rotations and edge calls will hurt her chances of medaling. And she is also going back to Moulin Rogue--- I think the judges are tired of that program. She's pulling a Meno and Sand. lol!
Polina Edmunds- International judges do not care for her style and right now she doesnt have all her technical elements due to injury. I dont see her higher than 7th if she is chosen for Olympics.
Mirai Nagasu- Under rotations.
Mariah Bell- Like her coach says---you do not know what to expect from her. She has a lot of potential but I do not think her new programs will help. Her PCS are too low as well.
Gracie Gold- she is the total package but mentally she is not there. We will see if she even comes back for her events this fall.

Who will make the Olympics in my opinion:
Ashley Wagner- 6/7th place at Olympics,
Karen Chen- 8th place at Olympics
Mirai Nagasu - 10th place at Olympics

 

[princessalica]

I already really miss Gracie. I sometimes just go watch old programs to see how good she really was and can be! Carly was posting on instagram and if reports of Gracie's skating are accurate, then Carly can currently outjump Gracie. I find it hard to believe that physically Gracie has lost that much. I really wonder if that is a mental issue too. I'm not bashing Gracie at all. I just want her to be the best she can be, because I know she could be on par with anyone if she was!

And I think that Polina has matured as a skater since her last nationals performance. She's getting her jumps back, and she did win Four Continents a few years ago, so some of the judges do take her seriously. Actually Polina and Mirai have a lots of similar issues with the under roataions, but can also put out some amazing performances.

I really hope that she comes back and skates like she can! Fredtx121, I would also include Bradie Tennel in the list because she is working hard to prove her case for being a contender from everything she's done this season so far, and as long as she continues in the way she has skated, I think judges will take her more seriously. No she isn't at the level of Ashley or Gracie, but there are upsets in results many times, and I think she could possibly be the one to deliver.

 

[fredtx121]

I already really miss Gracie. I sometimes just go watch old programs to see how good she really was and can be! Carly was posting on instagram and if reports of Gracie's skating are accurate, then Carly can currently outjump Gracie. I find it hard to believe that physically Gracie has lost that much. I really wonder if that is a mental issue too. I'm not bashing Gracie at all. I just want her to be the best she can be, because I know she could be on par with anyone if she was!

And I think that Polina has matured as a skater since her last nationals performance. She's getting her jumps back, and she did win Four Continents a few years ago, so some of the judges do take her seriously. Actually Polina and Mirai have a lots of similar issues with the under roataions, but can also put out some amazing performances.

I really hope that she comes back and skates like she can! Fredtx121, I would also include Bradie Tennel in the list because she is working hard to prove her case for being a contender from everything she's done this season so far, and as long as she continues in the way she has skated, I think judges will take her more seriously. No she isn't at the level of Ashley or Gracie, but there are upsets in results many times, and I think she could possibly be the one to deliver.

Yes I agree, Bradie Tennel also has a chance to make it to the Olympics. She performed very well at the recent Lombardi Trophy with an impressive total score of 196! Hopefully she can improve her PCS score before nationals and fight for a spot!

 

[Bluediamonds09]

A medal could be Courtney 's for the taking this week at Autumn Classic. She's competing against a COMPLETELY unpredictable field.

And I think that Tessa is the only US lady in the jgp this week. Good luck!

Is it wrong to want Mariah to go back to her Titanic program?

 

[pearly]

post

Thank you for your perspective. I too studied linguistics (socio too) but don't want to take this post too far off topic. I was stating my opinion and don't need anyone to agree with it - I most certainly do not think Mirai would give it any thought.

However just because I registered and started posting in an Olympic season does not make me someone who watches figure skating every four years. I've been a fan, skater and competitor for nearly 20 years now and know my skating well.

 

[nimi]

A medal could be Courtney 's for the taking this week at Autumn Classic. She's competing against a COMPLETELY unpredictable field.

I like Courtney and her 3F3Lo so I'm hoping for the best... She hasn't got any GP assignments yet, right?

Also it'll be really interesting to see Polina when she gets to Finlandia Trophy. The video from St. Moritz already showed her doing 2A+3T and 2A+1/2Lo+3S (although possibly <) and going for 3Lz and 3F (although falling) -- I wonder if she's already doing 3+3 in practice?


ETA: just noticed your post

However just because I registered and started posting in an Olympic season does not make me someone who watches figure skating every four years. I've been a fan, skater and competitor for nearly 20 years now and know my skating well.

I was just trying to point out that there are now articles aimed at the general public (as opposed to people like you and me who are on skating forums), I didn't mean to cause offense! Sorry!

 

[Gullygirl84]

I like Courtney and her 3F3Lo so I'm hoping for the best... She hasn't got any GP assignments yet, right?

Also it'll be really interesting to see Polina when she gets to Finlandia Trophy. The video from St. Moritz already showed her doing 2A+3T and 2A+1/2Lo+3S (although possibly <) and going for 3Lz and 3F (although falling) -- I wonder if she's already doing 3+3 in practice?


ETA: just noticed your post



I was just trying to point out that there are now articles aimed at the general public (as opposed to people like you and me who are on skating forums), I didn't mean to cause offense! Sorry!

There was a new Ice Network article that just was posted, focusing on Polina: http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2017/09/19/255022618

She says that "I have combos and everything" (so I assume that means 3-3).

Re-posting the protocols from St. Moritz, where she did get some unders.

http://www.stmoritzisc.org/SkStm17/2017SkateStMoritzIJSEvents/index.html

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

There was a new Ice Network article that just was posted, focusing on Polina: http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2017/09/19/255022618

She says that "I have combos and everything" (so I assume that means 3-3).

Re-posting the protocols from St. Moritz, where she did get some unders.

http://www.stmoritzisc.org/SkStm17/2017SkateStMoritzIJSEvents/index.html

It's probably 2A-3T and 2A-3S. With those combinations she doesn't need a 3-3 to get to 7 triples in the LP, and her time will be better spend getting the 3F and 3Z in shape. Given how many of the US Ladies < their 3-3's, if Polina can skate a clean SP with a 3-2 she won't be out of the medal hunt.

 

[Gullygirl84]

It's probably 2A-3T and 2A-3S. With those combinations she doesn't need a 3-3 to get to 7 triples in the LP, and her time will be better spend getting the 3F and 3Z in shape. Given how many of the US Ladies < their 3-3's, if Polina can skate a clean SP with a 3-2 she won't be out of the medal hunt.

Right, though I'm assuming that USFS would like the person on their Olympic team to at least "have" a triple triple in their arsenal for the short (though I guess Jan is far enough away that she could have one by then).

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Right, though I'm assuming that USFS would like the person on their Olympic team to at least "have" a triple triple in their arsenal for the short (though I guess Jan is far enough away that she could have one by then).

That's a good point, and the USFSA has overlooked those calls in the past. Personally, I'd rather see skaters who can rotate everything in their arsenal on the team rather than skaters who can do a 3-3 but < between four and six of their jumps. But maybe the hope is that the skaters with the 3-3 have a higher scoring potential and at least have a chance to place high. For the team event, we obviously need one solid SP skater who can land a rotated 3-3 on her feet, and I don't know if we have that skater right now.

 

[andromache]

That's a good point, and the USFSA has overlooked those calls in the past. Personally, I'd rather see skaters who can rotate everything in their arsenal on the team rather than skaters who can do a 3-3 but < between four and six of their jumps. But maybe the hope is that the skaters with the 3-3 have a higher scoring potential and at least have a chance to place high. For the team event, we obviously need one solid SP skater who can land a rotated 3-3 on her feet, and I don't know if we have that skater right now.

Karen Chen, sometimes.

Her 3-3 landing infuriates me. I have been completely won over by Karen Chen, but god, why why whyyyyyyyyy does this girl with the huge 3-3 underrotate that -3T? It seems to be more of a landing problem than a "cannot get the rotations in" problem.

I think this needs to be her team's top priority going into the Olympic season. She's got two NEW fabulous programs, she's learned them, now let's get that 3-3.

 

[Gullygirl84]

That's a good point, and the USFSA has overlooked those calls in the past. Personally, I'd rather see skaters who can rotate everything in their arsenal on the team rather than skaters who can do a 3-3 but < between four and six of their jumps. But maybe the hope is that the skaters with the 3-3 have a higher scoring potential and at least have a chance to place high. For the team event, we obviously need one solid SP skater who can land a rotated 3-3 on her feet, and I don't know if we have that skater right now.

LOL...Bradie? I wasn't even thinking of her seriously until this past weekend, but was impressed by her rotating her jumps. She is not exciting, but could she score well enough at nationals to get the solid "3rd" spot? Perhaps. I feel like Ashley and Karen, assuming they make the team, would be used for the team event, though they are not without their technical issues as well. Polina typically gets unders and edge calls in her international events (even if she does not get the calls at nationals), so I don't know if she is the best example for this instance.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Karen Chen, sometimes.

Her 3-3 landing infuriates me. I have been completely won over by Karen Chen, but god, why why whyyyyyyyyy does this girl with the huge 3-3 underrotate that -3T? It seems to be more of a landing problem than a "cannot get the rotations in" problem.

Her 3lz is too big and throws the momentum off. A big first jump in combination isn't always a great thing.