2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating

[skylark]

Didn't Shae Lynn Bourne choreograph Moulin Rouge? But Ashley is using Benji Schwimmer to update it? I'm curious as to why.

Yes, Yes, and Me Too. It could be as simple as scheduling Shae-Lynne's time. Ashley said she needed to schedule (in advance) extra time with Shae throughout the 2015-16 season. I'd expect this to happen this year too.

ETA: Meagan Duhamel said she and Eric wanted "new eyes" for their skating, thus the John Zimmerman decision. Which I think will turn out to be a brilliant call. So, it could also be something like that, just getting a fresh viewpoint on the program. Hopefully with Shae-Lynn's knowledge and concurrence. JMO.

 

[mrrice]

I wonder if the West Side story LP was the first one that Mariah had for this season, or if she had another one choreographed at one point that didn't work out? She skated to West Side Story as a novice (I believe) in the past, also choreographed by Cindy Stuart. She mentioned having "a few" short programs this season before going back to Roxie. It sounds like a crazy summer choreography wise/music choice wise.

I remember after Skate America last year that Dave Lease said that Rohene really spent time with Mariah before the event to get her into shape and do run-throughs before that event. Since she is back to Roxie, I wonder if he will have any time to spend with her before COR. I wasn't a fan of East of Eden, but I think that it accentuated the best of some of Mariah's qualities and disguised some weaknesses.

I agree and that's why I think the program was so well received. The chorography was brilliant, backloaded, and musical. If she doesn't want to repeat it, I think she should re-work Titanic as it was a show stopper even without a 3/3.

 

[skylark]

This is me, staying on topic, turning to the subject to Mirai:

I'm way impressed with Mirai getting her 3A! It just shows, I think, that she needed to change something up in her efforts, to stop trying to fix everything (URs, expression) and do something in her skating that inspires her. In a way, that's the whole ball game.

Very proud of you, Mirai!

 

[andromache]

I wonder if the West Side story LP was the first one that Mariah had for this season, or if she had another one choreographed at one point that didn't work out? She skated to West Side Story as a novice (I believe) in the past, also choreographed by Cindy Stuart. She mentioned having "a few" short programs this season before going back to Roxie. It sounds like a crazy summer choreography wise/music choice wise.

I remember after Skate America last year that Dave Lease said that Rohene really spent time with Mariah before the event to get her into shape and do run-throughs before that event. Since she is back to Roxie, I wonder if he will have any time to spend with her before COR. I wasn't a fan of East of Eden, but I think that it accentuated the best of some of Mariah's qualities and disguised some weaknesses.

I believe Mariah's original LP choice was Beauty and the Beast - no idea if there was ever any choreography in the works for that or not.

It's no wonder skaters are deciding to repeat their programs, if it's to avoid having something just flat out BAD like Mariah's LP.

And no wonder why warhorses are so popular! Warhorse music just works, pretty much whatever you decide to do. West Side Story - not so much. I think it's like GWTW in that it's very easy for it to come off as dated and dull. At this point, if West Side Story or GWTW were good choices to skate to, they are old enough that they would be warhorses by now! Older music that is rarely skated to is rarely skated to for a reason. (There are probably some great, little-used choices among the classical greats - but movie/musical tracks are just different - there's a lack of timelessness). Sure, every once in awhile a great program will come out of tough music, but those are the exceptions.

Mariah just never seems sure of herself. I wonder how much she hits that 3-3 in her practice SPs.

 

[skylark]

Mariah just never seems sure of herself. I wonder how much she hits that 3-3 in her practice SPs.

Mariah gathers strength and power throughout her skates, especially LPs, to finish with a triumphant bang. That's why that 3F at the very end last year was so incredible. So maybe nerves at first, getting a mistake out of the way so to speak? And in the SP, that first mistake is always the 3-3 combo. Very costly.

 

[andromache]

Mariah gathers strength and power throughout her skates, especially LPs, to finish with a triumphant bang. That's why that 3F at the very end last year was so incredible. So maybe nerves at first, getting a mistake out of the way so to speak? And in the SP, that first mistake is always the 3-3 combo. Very costly.

Moving the 2A to the beginning of her program could be an idea? It seems to work for Ashley's LPs.

Just odd that Mariah has so much more luck with the 3-3 in the LP and not the SP, since (I believe) both are at the beginning.

 

[Gullygirl84]

Mariah gathers strength and power throughout her skates, especially LPs, to finish with a triumphant bang. That's why that 3F at the very end last year was so incredible. So maybe nerves at first, getting a mistake out of the way so to speak? And in the SP, that first mistake is always the 3-3 combo. Very costly.

It's interesting to me that at Skate America and Nationals, Mariah was only in 6th after the SP going into the LP. It might have helped take some of the pressure off of her long and allowed her to really kill it. If the girls ahead of her had not made mistakes in the LP, she could have stayed around 5-6th.

I also think it's worth noting that Mariah has probably had more time to work on programs in past seasons, since her season had been ending after nationals. She would typically skate and have programs ready for the Broadmoor open in June. Last year, her season went from the Broadmoor Open to Worlds, so it was a long one. I wonder when she had her LP choreographed, and if there was more to her not competing at some of the summer events than simply "focusing on the technical elements" with Rafael. I think she first posted clips of her Chicago sp in February of 2016, so now that she is back to that and can practice it more, she will have definitely had it long enough that we should be seeing her hit a triple triple in the short. If she's able to hit it in the long, she should be able to do it...

 

[skylark]

Moving the 2A to the beginning of her program could be an idea? It seems to work for Ashley's LPs.

Just odd that Mariah has so much more luck with the 3-3 in the LP and not the SP, since (I believe) both are at the beginning.

I love that idea for Mariah, actually. It goes along with my impression that she gains confidence as the program progresses. And I think Ashley has said that putting the 2A at the beginning takes a little of the pressure off the 3-3, for her. However, Gracie tried it last year, and it didn't work for her. She went back to her customary jump layout later in the season. The old adage: everybody's different.

 

[skylark]

I also think it's worth noting that Mariah has probably had more time to work on programs in past seasons, since her season had been ending after nationals. She would typically skate and have programs ready for the Broadmoor open in June. Last year, her season went from the Broadmoor Open to Worlds, so it was a long one. I wonder when she had her LP choreographed, and if there was more to her not competing at some of the summer events than simply "focusing on the technical elements" with Rafael.

IIRC, Mariah jumped into even earlier training/prep/choreo than usual, immediately after nationals, since her FS at 2016 nationals was so traumatic. To exorcise the demon, so to speak. I agree that the longer than usual season had to be a big adjustment ... including the fact that maybe her prep for this season felt and still feels a little short.

 

[andromache]

IIRC, Mariah jumped into even earlier training/prep/choreo than usual, immediately after nationals, since her FS at 2016 nationals was so traumatic. To exorcise the demon, so to speak. I agree that the longer than usual season had to be a big adjustment ... including the fact that maybe her prep for this season felt and still feels a little short.

Which makes Karen Chen's achievement of 2 brand new programs and general readiness all the more impressive, really. Then again, youth, etc.

 

[pearly]

I just watched Karen's SP again from last week. That music was cut so well. Her spins are gorgeous. The only thing I'd change is that stop she makes in the middle of the step sequence, I feel it stops the flow of the program. Maybe it will look better with time and practice. The choreography is amazing.

I love this program - and this is coming from a person who would literally introduce deductions for certain pieces of music, Roxanne included.

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

Dave Lease said that Mariah Bell should take La La Land - and to be honest I am inclined to agree. Mariah's LP is taking her nowhere, and she has the right look and emotional affect to carry it off. Her LP is just a mess.

I'm not happy about Ashley repeating Moulin Rouge, but I as a fan am not entitled to new programs, and I understand why she has made this decision. I'm hoping for enough new changes that it doesn't feel stale or old, and that the judges don't hurt her PCS. When you're considered to be the mature, artistic skater, I think you're risking how the judges perceive you when you go back to your most successful LP for the third time in four years.

I agree with this, including Dave Lease's suggestion that Mariah Bell should skate to La La Land. It really would fit her a lot better than West Side Story which requires a skater who really has a commanding presence to make the Leonard Bernstein music work. Unless you're skating it like Akiko Suzuki or Kazuki Tomono, then the music has a real chance of being heavy and overpowering and the skater has a chance to look meandering out there. Right now, Mariah skates to WSS as if she's sort of lost in the middle of the rink and trying to figure out her choreography. The music cuts also do not properly build and leads the audience no where.

 

[sheetz]

Nick Zaccardi has a new article on Ashley's FS switch.

Ashley Wagner details dropping ‘La La Land’ free skate
http://olympics.nbcsports.com/2017/09/20/ashley-wagner-moulin-rouge-la-la-land-free-skate/

 

[pearly]

Nick Zaccardi has a new article on Ashley's FS switch.

Ashley Wagner details dropping ‘La La Land’ free skate
http://olympics.nbcsports.com/2017/09/20/ashley-wagner-moulin-rouge-la-la-land-free-skate/

Many questions answered! Thank you for posting.

 

[mrrice]

Nick Zaccardi has a new article on Ashley's FS switch.

Ashley Wagner details dropping ‘La La Land’ free skate
http://olympics.nbcsports.com/2017/09/20/ashley-wagner-moulin-rouge-la-la-land-free-skate/

Thank you for posting this article. It certainly clears things up and removes any speculation. Good luck to Ashley.

 

[desertskates]

Glad that Ashley is addressing the La La Land / Moulin Rouge issue so we don't have to wonder if and why. I definitely wish I could have see La La Land, especially after the "making of" video was released, but the Olympic year is too important for her to move into the season feeling like anything at all is not exactly where she want it to be. I do really hope we see a silver dress for this one!

 

[Koralai]

Yes, thanks for posting that! This reassures me that she's not acting out of fear of trying something new. I think her reasoning here is quite sound:

“I was very passionate about what I was doing,” she continued. “I started training it day to day, and the music is beautiful. But just something wasn’t quite clicking, and the character didn’t really feel as complicated as I wanted her to be. There really didn’t feel like there was much of an emotional range. And I love drama. I love having those moments.”

I haven't seen La La Land, but I did try watching the audition song to get a sense of it, and I think Ashley's assessment is accurate. That song is uncomfortably close to being a platitude - "just follow your dreams!" without little acknowledgment of the cost of doing so. Looking over the lyrics again, I do think it's possible to wrench some depth from them, but not nearly as much as Ashley could get from Moulin Rouge. If she wants to go to the Olympics with a character piece, then Satine is a much stronger character. The thespian in me respects her for making that choice.

 

[skylark]

Nick Zaccardi has a new article on Ashley's FS switch.

Ashley Wagner details dropping ‘La La Land’ free skate
http://olympics.nbcsports.com/2017/09/20/ashley-wagner-moulin-rouge-la-la-land-free-skate/

Skating to Moulin Rouge again “made me feel like the athlete that I was at 2016 Worlds," Fascinating! This is exactly what Bruno Marcotte said in the just-up GS interview about Meagan /Eric reprising Muse. That after the struggles, mental, physical and emotional, that they went through the past year, the music made them feel like the skaters they were before.

A key sentence in the article is when Raf told Ashley to turn on the MR music and skate.

Great article by Nick Zaccardi! I'm beyond thrilled to read it!

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

Yes, thanks for posting that! This reassures me that she's not acting out of fear of trying something new. I think her reasoning here is quite sound:



I haven't seen La La Land, but I did try watching the audition song to get a sense of it, and I think Ashley's assessment is accurate. That song is uncomfortably close to being a platitude - "just follow your dreams!" without little acknowledgment of the cost of doing so. Looking over the lyrics again, I do think it's possible to wrench some depth from them, but not nearly as much as Ashley could get from Moulin Rouge. If she wants to go to the Olympics with a character piece, then Satine is a much stronger character. The thespian in me respects her for making that choice.

I find this quote so funny. Ashley probably didn't mean to, but she's critiquing the Emma Stone character in a way that I agree with. I also think there was a lack of range and depth in Stone's performance as well. I think a really great actress/performer could fine hidden depths and nuance and really elevate the character, but for Ashley, why work so hard when there's an Olympics and TES and > to worry about? I think Satine is easier to portray, and not because she's competed with it like 10 times already, but because MR is much more facially-OTT and no need to reach into the soul really.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Didn't Shae Lynn Bourne choreograph Moulin Rouge? But Ashley is using Benji Schwimmer to update it? I'm curious as to why.

The Zaccardi article beat me to it, but bringing on a new choreographer or an additional choreographer is usually a very good thing and something that is done often in the skating world but without the fans realizing. Also, can I just say the skating world has Abbott to thank for bringing Schwimmer into it as far back as 2012, as he's done wonders since.

I usually second-guess my passing thoughts, but here's one I had: that Mariah thru simple oversight might not have gotten to Rohene until he was too booked to work with her. He's been crazy busy this year; his clientele has expanded or even exploded! ... a fact about which I'm very happy. Or it could be a consideration of location and travel time. Cindy is in L.A.

I'm a fan of the choreographer being nearby; preferably right in the home rink, where their input is daily or nearly so.

Mariah's listing on p. 1 in GS programs thread has been updated to reflect a return to Roxie Hart, so I'm inclined to think the data about her LP is correct, choreo. by Cindy Stuart. I agree it seems completely wrong for her as performed at SLC, but maybe there's something in the vision that just needs to be brought out, and made visible. Well, it's possible anyway.

I have to mostly disagree with the statement I bolded. Having the choreographer at the skaters home rink isn't always the most beneficial and many a skating choreographer is brought in from afar or travel to many rinks all over to do choreography or add touches to existing choreography those who do only on-ice choreo as well as those from the dance world such as Schwimmer who is mentioned in my reply to Tavi.