- Joined
- Aug 1, 2011
I applaud a comment like this and agree with it wholeheartedly. It is a diamond IN THE ROUGH.
Gabriella Papadakis & Guillaume Cizeron
- Thread starter breathesgelatin
- Start date
I applaud a comment like this and agree with it wholeheartedly. It is a diamond IN THE ROUGH.
If I may add my thoughts: I think what was meant were the comments on social media and youtube etc... which are just negative with no constructive purpose and not any well-argumented criticism or simply different perceptions of the performance or about the progress that they can still make throughout the season.
Indeed! And that was really obvious to me.
And 3 pics of the Moonlight Sonata Free Dance taken this afternoon at the FFSG Masters 2017 in Villard-de-Lans
https://www.instagram.com/p/BZrIldpljn_/?taken-by=alain06fr
https://www.instagram.com/p/BZrI72YFku4/?taken-by=alain06fr
https://www.instagram.com/p/BZrJJ9rFsrB/?taken-by=alain06fr
https://www.instagram.com/p/BZrIldpljn_/?taken-by=alain06fr
https://www.instagram.com/p/BZrI72YFku4/?taken-by=alain06fr
https://www.instagram.com/p/BZrJJ9rFsrB/?taken-by=alain06fr
I see it. It's not a requirement anymore... ISU, wyd???? Next they will allow skaters to walk? Or will count 3-turns as difficult? what's going on? :noshake:
I dodn't know even what to say to that. Do you skate and say it from your expirience? Because what I've posted is real skater's words.
I'm sorry if my previous message gave an indication I want to insult other teams or their fans. That isn't the case. I wouldn't do that, I respect them all and I believe I wrote that. I also mentioned
that the today's FD was beautiful and has a great potentional if we imagine how much it will evolve during this season. But that was it. I never said it was a perfection, it could not be more perfect or that other programmes are bad.
Some members of this forum mentioned insults thrown at G&G after their SD yesterday on social media and also today after the FD. E.g. attacking them on twitter like here https://twitter.com/killitistan/status/913797795684986887 It may be my fault, but I don't find this respectful and that's what I was referring to in the post. I mentioned Tessa and Scott for one reason - I read that many people suspect their fans are hateful towards other teams. I don't think so - I like these two, I think they're nice people and I also think that is the case of their fans. There was no other intention in mentioning them.
I'm sorry for a long post, but I wanted to explain what I meant. I hope it's clearer now. Once again, I apologise if it sounded offensive.
IIRC the requirement is still 7/9 difficult turns for level 3/4 (style A). It's just that before, one of those difficult turns had to be a double twizzle wheres now IF a twizzle is included it must be a double twizzle (and not single).
So I wouldn't say the purpose of this change is to make stsqs easier, probably the idea is to introduce possibility for more variation (every single team double twizzling in every single stsq gets a bit predictable...)
Actually we were talking about not touching steps, which is Style B*. Only 5 difficult turns are required, so the twizzles are not necessary at all. And I stand my opinion, it will simplify the steps. Everything looks easier now: lifts, twizzles, and now step sequences.
Edit: as for FD, it's cute. I only say that I hoped they will challenge themselves and try something out of their comfort zone. But it's an Olympic season, so... no one wants to take the risk.
i think maybe all that was there; but the camera didn't give it to us. After a couple more viewings I started picking up a lot of detail in the step sequences that feels more developed and nuanced than even last year.
The great thing is though: whatever small issues one might perceive; and whatever parts one might find outstanding: this is something so engaging that one actually cares so much.
Here's to seeing it the other way up at Finlandia (and also the Short Dance)
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2011
Thank you. I suspect the PROXIMITY of your comment to mine is what caused the misunderstanding. and for that I sincerely apologize.
One of the reasons I posted what I did about their FD not being without problems is because the first five comments I read both here and elsewhere about the program was empty flattery. And to me I can't imagine P/C would want something like that. Why have a coach then? Why practice? Hey, once you got those steps down, and it gets hailed automatically as a "masterpiece" why bother practicing at all?
Another reason I posted that was to stimulate discussion of how the dance can be improved. I think some of the problems raise very interesting points of possible discussion about the current state of ice dance. Like what is the difference between a "signature move" and an "endlessly recycled element"? EVERYONE it seems is recycling moves, or (let's be civil and kind here) being "inspired by the appropriation" of elements done by other teams in the past. If this were a drinking game people would pass out halfway through the Short Dance. "That was done by team X in 2012. Drink!" "Didn't they use those exact steps/spins the last two, three, nineteen years?" Or how does Ice Dance being a sport affect one's evaluation of a program as a piece of performance art?
So sorry for the misunderstanding and I hope that we can talk about issues like the ones I mention above. And if we do I look forward to your input.
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2014
My contribution to this discussion is only a simple one: I do think this program can create a golden Olympic moment. I already feel it casting a spell, and any deficiencies can be addressed. It's so purely them. I like both teams, but I think this FD is stronger material than Tessa and Scott's.
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2017
They have a capacity to reach sublime, to incarnate it. You hardly find "sublime" elsewhere than in classical music, that's why classical music suits them so well. Maybe they should have taken classical music for SD, but let's wait and see.
Actually we were talking about not touching steps, which is Style B*. Only 5 difficult turns are required, so the twizzles are not necessary at all. And I stand my opinion, it will simplify the steps. Everything looks easier now: lifts, twizzles, and now step sequences.
Found the ISU document (at least the new site is easier to navigate, now I'm slightly less peeved about all the dead links) here
style B level 3
style B level 4
So the change in wording re: style B is pretty much the same as with style A. The difference is basically that style A has the sentence "One Type cannot be taken into consideration more than 2 times" after the bolded sentence. Plus, there's the bit about one foot section turns. Actually, if I understand the text correctly, double twizzle is still required for style A level 4 (but not for level 3) because it reads like this:
I just don't feel that having double twizzles in every single stsq is the litmus test for difficulty in ice dance programs... or that getting the style B level 4 described above is necessarily easier now when double twizzles aren't obligatory (you still have to do the same number of 100% clean difficult turns as before), but I'm not an expert so whatever.
About to watch! Might be begging for a translation in a minute!
https://twitter.com/TLSfrance3tv/status/914198041770512385
https://twitter.com/TLSfrance3tv/status/914198041770512385
I just don't think that having double twizzles in every single stsq is the litmus test for difficulty for ice dance programs... or that getting the level 4 described above is necessarily easier now when double twizzles aren't obligatory (you still have to do the same number of difficult turns as before), but I'm not an expert so whatever.
The problem with double twizzle is that it's easier to make a mistake on this turn, expecially when skater's legs are strained. And if skaters makes a mistake on Tw2 the team lose not 1 but 2 levels (the level drops to level 2 automatically), while incorrect bracket, for example, will lead to 1 level drop. That's what I meant. Mistake on double twizzle is too expensive, and when team exclude it from their not touching step sequence, there's bigger possibility to receive level 3. Level 4 is a whole other story though.
More than that, in previous seasons if skater made a mistake on one twizzle from the double twizzles, the turn still counted as a single twizzle. Starting this season, mistake on any part during 2Tw makes the whole turn incorrect.
It depends on skaters of course, for many skaters I know the most difficult turn is braket. For some others it's counter. But 2Tw is danger for all
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2015
In all honesty though, since this is a fan page, first reactions (especially when seeing a program the first time) are always going to be feelings rather than constructive criticism. I stand by the fact that this is the most beautiful usage of MS I've seen in figure skating, potential fulfilled or not. Are there problems with it? Yes, but less than I expected at this point in the season, and it's probably just a matter of enhancing some elements, rather than drastically changing anything. The most important thing here though is that it really works for P/C, it highlights everything that sets them apart from other couples and it's a great vehicle in their quest for Olympic gold.
Now on to the polishing part and what works/what doesn't:
Works: The lift at the beginning of the presto piece (so incredibly fast, so perfectly fit to the music), the twizzles and the twizzle exit, all the drops to the ice/spins with focus on Guillaume, the StSq on the presto piece;
Doesn't: The second part of the spin (they lose speed and it pales in comparison to the stationary lift), the entry and exit on the StLi;
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2015
Ah, now I understand what you mean. Thanks for explaining!
I still think that having all that double twizzling in every damn stsq in every effing program, no matter if those twizzles actually fit the music/mood or not, is one of the reasons why stsqs often end up looking so formulaic & samey from team to team, so personally I wouldn't mind a bit more variety...
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