2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating

[MarinHondas]

Feel Ashely's prime time is gone. It seems after a world silver, she lost her motivation last year. And this year, more so. Repeat for both SP and LP, in the Olympic year. Yes, it takes time to learn new programs, but didn't Evgenia change her LP in a matter of a few weeks? Marin changed her SP, though not good, and Karen changed her LP after the season started? With the domination of Evgenia, rising Canadian ladies, and the renewed Japanese ladies, World Silver is as far as she can possibly go. Staying at where she was does not work anymore. With Gracie gone, the ladies' field is quite interesting now. But I wouldn't be surprised if Ashely does not go to the Olympics.

I find it hard to fathom a scenario where Ashley doesn’t go to the Olympics unless she doesn’t medal here or at her other gp(which is Skate America so I’m sure she will be pushed on to the podium) AND she has a sub par nationals. I just really can’t imagine her not going. I do agree 2016 was her prime and bringing back TWO old programs was not a good move. They are tired and its not good. She’s already had her “‘moment” with both of these programs.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Feel Ashely's prime time is gone. It seems after a world silver, she lost her motivation last year. And this year, more so. Repeat for both SP and LP, in the Olympic year. Yes, it takes time to learn new programs, but didn't Evgenia change her LP in a matter of a few weeks? Marin changed her SP, though not good, and Karen changed her LP after the season started? With the domination of Evgenia, rising Canadian ladies, and the renewed Japanese ladies, World Silver is as far as she can possibly go. Staying at where she was does not work anymore. With Gracie gone, the ladies' field is quite interesting now. But I wouldn't be surprised if Ashely does not go to the Olympics.

Counting Ashley out after one SP is not something I'd bet on. As far as comparing her changing programs like others...you realize there is an 8-10 year age difference between Ashley and those others, correct?!?? And for someone like Ashley who has cognitive issues with memorizing choreography, she can't just up and change like the youngins.

Give the woman a break please. It's one bad skate.

 

[frida80]

Let’s wait until the LP before we start freaking out. I did say before that Ashley would get some carrots. But making the podium is unlikely tomorrow.

 

[evasorange]

Feel Ashely's prime time is gone. It seems after a world silver, she lost her motivation last year. And this year, more so. Repeat for both SP and LP, in the Olympic year. Yes, it takes time to learn new programs, but didn't Evgenia change her LP in a matter of a few weeks? Marin changed her SP, though not good, and Karen changed her LP after the season started? With the domination of Evgenia, rising Canadian ladies, and the renewed Japanese ladies, World Silver is as far as she can possibly go. Staying at where she was does not work anymore. With Gracie gone, the ladies' field is quite interesting now. But I wouldn't be surprised if Ashely does not go to the Olympics.

It wasn't even a disaster of a skate. It was just sub par which yeah none of us want to see that from our number one US lady at her first Grand Prix but she's .2 points away from Karen(who was more lackluster then Ashley imo) and five points away from third. Podium finish isn't out of reach imo considering how we've seen Anna and Courtney fail to deliver in lp and Karen is coming in with a new two week old lp. Yes it's sad and ridiculous that Ashley has no new programs this year but I think that ship has sailed and I just hope to God she can bring the fire back to these programs. First time out I expected it to seem a bit rusty. Wish the jumps were stronger but in no way am I going to write Ashley off after one subpar skate. Every one loves to bring up her flops last year but she did win skate America and have a second place nationals finish so it wasn't a total wash of a year. Not even gonna touch on the question of why two teenagers can switch programs easier then a 26 year old.

 

[skylark]

It wasn't even a disaster of a skate. It was just sub par which yeah none of us want to see that from our number one US lady at her first Grand Prix but she's .2 points away from Karen(who was more lackluster then Ashley imo) and five points away from third. Podium finish isn't out of reach imo considering how we've seen Anna and Courtney fail to deliver in lp and Karen is coming in with a new two week old lp. Yes it's sad and ridiculous that Ashley has no new programs this year but I think that ship has sailed and I just hope to God she can bring the fire back to these programs. First time out I expected it to seem a bit rusty. Wish the jumps were stronger but in no way am I going to write Ashley off after one subpar skate. Every one loves to bring up her flops last year but she did win skate America and have a second place nationals finish so it wasn't a total wash of a year. Not even gonna touch on the question of why two teenagers can switch programs easier then a 26 year old.

:agree:

What makes Ashley such a great champion is that she never gives up. When I read the numerous, repetitive posts about how people think she's over and done with, it just makes me (well, mad) but also sorry for anyone with so little faith and awareness of what's possible. Or for anyone who underestimates gallantry, spirit, rising to the occasion, and the nature and value of struggle..

Whatever the scores and placements, I plan to enjoy what Ashley brings tomorrow. Kaetlyn Osmond's SP today showed everything I love about figure skating: beautiful technique that serves the performance, musicality and storytelling, and pure joy in skating. I'm also really happy for Courtney Hicks and her skate today. She has made admirable progress in her presentation. I really like her LP this year, so I plan to enjoy that too! Wishing good skates for Ashley, Karen and Courtney!

 

[SkaterX]

I really want to get excited about Ashley's skating but I just can't. The programs feel stale. A month ago I had no doubt that she would go to the Olympics but now I feel there is a small chance she might not.

 

[sross43]

It's sad, but I have zero expectations for the US ladies cracking the top 5 at the Olympics this year. The only one who could have stood a chance would have been Gracie. I guess now I have to start pulling for the Canadians...

 

[Seren]

It's sad, but I have zero expectations for the US ladies cracking the top 5 at the Olympics this year. The only one who could have stood a chance would have been Gracie. I guess now I have to start pulling for the Canadians...

Going to have to disagree with you on Gracie, but agree with you on the us ladies chances- and if anyone is going to Make top 5 I think Karen has the best chance. When she is on she is wonderful, the key is if she can get consistent. She is the type of skater who could sneak in (such as at Worlds last year) with relatively clean performances- especially if her LP is stronger, unfortunately I think her SP music overwhelms her. That said- at this point she would rely on the mistakes of others. I think she has the highest scoring potential of the us ladies.

I love Ashley and I hate saying this because I do love this SP but it feels stale. I feel like I'm watching a less exciting reboot.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Going to have to disagree with you on Gracie, but agree with you on the us ladies chances- and if anyone is going to Make top 5 I think Karen has the best chance. When she is on she is wonderful, the key is if she can get consistent. She is the type of skater who could sneak in (such as at Worlds last year) with relatively clean performances- especially if her LP is stronger, unfortunately I think her SP music overwhelms her. That said- at this point she would rely on the mistakes of others. I think she has the highest scoring potential of the us ladies.

I love Ashley and I hate saying this because I do love this SP but it feels stale. I feel like I'm watching a less exciting reboot.

It's definitely a stripped down version of hip hip chin chin.

 

[Blades of Passion]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but Courtney has my favorite SP this season among the American women.

Aside from Ashley's Hip Hip Chin Chin when she skates it well, this is the TRUTH. :thumbsup:

I'm not surprised that Ashley's program continues to have non-ideally placed and choreographed spins. So much for her saying she would improve them this season. :disapp:

 

[BackSpiral]

Definitely not counting Ashley out this early in the year. However, I am concerned she pretty significantly URed two of her jumps. These were bordering on being downgraded. I do think Karen out-skated her...she missed her planned combo but that was a huge lutz and she had no URs plus obviously her spins were superior.

Good job by Courtney. I hope she can land her 3Flip-3Loop cleanly in competition. I agree she has improved a lot. She is not as unpolished.

 

[hippomoomin]

At this point, I just feel Ashley does not have a strong will to go to the Olympics. She has much more fire 4 years ago. She does not seem to be in a fighting spirit since last season. Even without spending the time to learn new programs, her jumps are not getting better. The score she got for a cleanish program is also frustrating.

I find it hard to fathom a scenario where Ashley doesn’t go to the Olympics unless she doesn’t medal here or at her other gp(which is Skate America so I’m sure she will be pushed on to the podium) AND she has a sub par nationals. I just really can’t imagine her not going. I do agree 2016 was her prime and bringing back TWO old programs was not a good move. They are tired and its not good. She’s already had her “‘moment” with both of these programs.

 

[beki]

Courtney is significantly better than I remember. That program is really good for her.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Definitely not counting Ashley out this early in the year. However, I am concerned she pretty significantly URed two of her jumps. These were bordering on being downgraded.

They were hardly bordering on being <<, what are you looking at, really. Her Loop shouldn't have even been called < , it was only hit because of the unclean landing.

 

[Ares]

Alexia Paganini represents Switzerland now, well that's a loss for USA future in ladies. She must have a Swiss passport I guess because she apparently earned place for her country (and for herself as it was implied in the article) in Nebelhorn for the Olympics.

 

[Moxiejan]

They were hardly bordering on being <<, what are you looking at, really. Her Loop shouldn't have even been called < , it was only hit because of the unclean landing.

The British Eurosport commentators described both jumps as fully rotated, both during the program and during the slow-mo replay. Seemed surprised by her score.

On Karen, they agreed with a post in this thread that Karen's SP music is wrong for her.

They loved Courtney's music for her; also liked her deep edges & spins.

 

[Spirals for Miles]

I wish Ashley would have kept her Sweet Dreams SP instead of reusing HHCC... that feels like so 2016 now when everyone else is fired up and in the present. And Sweet Dreams was wonderful! We didn't get to see it as much either, because of that 6th place finish at CoC that kept her from the final.

 

[skylark]

The British Eurosport commentators described both jumps as fully rotated, both during the program and during the slow-mo replay. Seemed surprised by her score.
.

I wondered if anyone else heard that. Thanks, Moxiejan for mentioning it. Sometimes I wonder if I'm in a Twilight Zone situation here.

It only points out, again, that underrotations can be seen in different lights. UR calls are debatable among professionals. And some of the TEC callers don't call them as the rules specify. If a jump is less than 1/4 underrotated, it's meant to be called fully rotated.

The B.Esp commentators not only didn't see those two jumps as UR. They looked closely and judged them fully rotated, long before the scores came up.

Since IJS is supposed to clarify rather than obscure, it's a shame that URs, which are so often debatable and/or go uncalled for other skaters, are given so much weight in the scoring. Making certain skaters nervous about being called UR also can have an adverse effect on their performance, Mirai being the clearest example of that. Audiences are understandably confused and frustrated with such a system.

 

[frida80]

I wondered if anyone else heard that. Thanks, Moxiejan for mentioning it. Sometimes I wonder if I'm in a Twilight Zone situation here.

It only points out, again, that underrotations can be seen in different lights. UR calls are debatable among professionals. And some of the TEC callers don't call them as the rules specify. If a jump is less than 1/4 underrotated, it's meant to be called fully rotated.

The B.Esp commentators not only didn't see those two jumps as UR. They looked closely and judged them fully rotated, long before the scores came up.

Since IJS is supposed to clarify rather than obscure, it's a shame that URs, which are so often debatable and/or go uncalled for other skaters, are given so much weight in the scoring. Making certain skaters nervous about being called UR also can have an adverse effect on their performance, Mirai being the clearest example of that. Audiences are understandably confused and frustrated with such a system.

But it slow motion it was clear that the toe was greater than a 1/4 of a turn underrotated. You could even see it in real time. The British commentators often make bad calls during their commentary. They mislabel jumps, get the terminology wrong, and miss errors. Even so, I love them because they’re the most positive.

 

[desertskates]

I'll admit I'm a little bummed to see less than perfect programs from Ashley and Karen yesterday, but both of them stayed on their feet and podium finishes are still possible. Hip hip chin chin being recycled doesn't bother me--it's a great all around program and I think we'll see it back to it's usual form soon. My only complain there this version of the black dress. C'mon, Ashley, you deserve to dazzle in some color with serious sparkle here!