2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating

[Sasha'sSpins]

I worry about Ashley going the GPF. The potential line up will be Evgenia, Kaetlyn, Mai, Wakaba, Alina and Carolina. Ashley should sneak in over Mai or Wakaba. What ever the case, there are some very heavy hitters who've scored very high. Ashley could land in sixth place easily. It would not even the statement she would want to make before nationals.

I almost wish she could end her fall with SA so she could have a triumphant win going into nationals and build on that momentum.

True, but I think the USFS will see Ashley making it to the GPF as a big plus on her resume! She's the only one (so far) that has made it that far in recent years. And I think the U.S. officials are realistic. They know the top skaters are getting huge scores so being anywhere close to them is a win! Or maybe I'm just being a Pollyanna lol!

 

[Moxiejan]

True, but I think the USFS will see Ashley making it to the GPF as a big plus on her resume! She's the only one (so far) that has made it that far in recent years. And I think the U.S. officials are realistic. They know the top skaters are getting huge scores so being anywhere close to them is a win! Or maybe I'm just being a Pollyanna lol!

Making the Final is in fact in the same top selection tier as performance at 2018 Nationals. And at this point, all the U.S. ladies who have 2 assignments & thus could make the Final have skated once. Only Ashley is still mathematically in the running. So, achieving the Final would indeed be a big plus. Essentially would make her a lock. Courtney's 4th would give her a slim chance, but with the France open spot going to Schott, there's not much chance of her getting a 2nd assignment unless one of the U.S. ladies WD from Skate America.

 

[Seren]

Skating skills? Her skating skills are among the weakest among the top Ladies she was mostly clean landing her jumps in the LP but if she's underotating her jumps even landing her them won't get her a big score as she found out at SC.

I think the other poster probably meant PCS. The problem with Ashley is the fact that PCS is scored across the board which doesn't necessarily make sense. Ashley deserves high performance and interpretation scores, but her transition score and SS score shouldn't be as high. Judges aren't willing tonseperate them which is an entirely separate problem.

If Ashley can skate clean and rotate her jumps she doesn't have anything to worry about. The trick is, will she be able to consistently do this and one less than stellar competition doesn't settle it. (I say this as someone who really likes Ashley!)

 

[Jaana]

If Ashley can skate clean and rotate her jumps she doesn't have anything to worry about. The trick is, will she be able to consistently do this and one less than stellar competition doesn't settle it. (I say this as someone who really likes Ashley!)

I like her skating, too. I wonder though, if she ever has managed to rotate all her jumps in a competition? The technical panels seem to have started to finally do their job properly this season..., which of course is as it should have been always.

 

[Globetrotter]

Honestly, other than Kostner, Wagner's SS are more than on par with the other top ladies (and yes, I am including Medvedeva). We are not talking about Wagner's SS in 2008 - she has improved to the point where the difference between her SS and those of the majority of the other ladies is negligible. The judges also agree.

Hmm the current crop of active US ladies have SS that is quite meh really - Gracie is the only one with superb SS but is currently MIA. The Russian girls are mostly just about average and nothing to crow about either. CaroK still has the best basic SS I agree but the Japanese girls Satoko, Wakaba and Marin all have very good SS. Ashley's SS is some of the weakest among her US peers and you can see that she can't really maintain speed and hold the edge into the jumps (slows down in fact) which I suspect is what cause her to be prone to UR. Yes, she has cleaned up and improve her gliding but the edges are still shallow. That however does not detract from her as a performer, much like Sasha Cohen was the extreme example of a top performer but with literally no edge work and awful SS.

 

[Eeyora]

Hmm the current crop of active US ladies have SS that is quite meh really - Gracie is the only one with superb SS but is currently MIA. The Russian girls are mostly just about average and nothing to crow about either. CaroK still has the best basic SS I agree but the Japanese girls Satoko, Wakaba and Marin all have very good SS. Ashley's SS is some of the weakest among her US peers and you can see that she can't really maintain speed and hold the edge into the jumps (slows down in fact) which I suspect is what cause her to be prone to UR. Yes, she has cleaned up and improve her gliding but the edges are still shallow. That however does not detract from her as a performer, much like Sasha Cohen was the extreme example of a top performer but with literally no edge work and awful SS.

Sasha’s skating skills and edge work I will say did improve a great deal under Tarosova but yes in her early years under Nicks’ they were one of the missing links in her skating. I’m not an expert in these things but I like fluidity and glide. Although with Wagner I wonder if that can be a mental
game as well.

 

[Spirals for Miles]

Hmm the current crop of active US ladies have SS that is quite meh really - Gracie is the only one with superb SS but is currently MIA. The Russian girls are mostly just about average and nothing to crow about either. CaroK still has the best basic SS I agree but the Japanese girls Satoko, Wakaba and Marin all have very good SS. Ashley's SS is some of the weakest among her US peers and you can see that she can't really maintain speed and hold the edge into the jumps (slows down in fact) which I suspect is what cause her to be prone to UR. Yes, she has cleaned up and improve her gliding but the edges are still shallow. That however does not detract from her as a performer, much like Sasha Cohen was the extreme example of a top performer but with literally no edge work and awful SS.

Sasha Cohen has awful SS? Oh man I just must be awful at seeing that...
Sasha has wonderful SS, in my opinion. Just look at her Rach 2 and Swan Lake step sequences!

 

[Bluediamonds09]

Sasha Cohen has awful SS? Oh man I just must be awful at seeing that...
Sasha has wonderful SS, in my opinion. Just look at her Rach 2 and Swan Lake step sequences!

Me too! I’m really bad at telling whether or not a skater has good skating skills. Usually I just watch for if a skater is 1)jerking their body around; 2) speed . And that’s all I know. How to tell if a skater has good SS and edge quality? Can someone post a video of an example of what’s good and what’s bad SS?

 

[andromache]

Sasha Cohen has awful SS? Oh man I just must be awful at seeing that...
Sasha has wonderful SS, in my opinion. Just look at her Rach 2 and Swan Lake step sequences!

I was surprised to learn this too, when I first read it a few years ago on here.

I'm not that great at skating skill evaluation, but I think if you pay attention to her feet (which is admittedly difficult to do when a skater like Sasha is so darn GOOD from above the ankles) you can see she barely uses the edges of her blades at all. I do think it's pretty impressive that she has so little edgework, yet manages not to be painfully slow or compromise her posture/carriage. But yeah, can someone more knowledgable weigh in here?

 

[Globetrotter]

I was surprised to learn this too, when I first read it a few years ago on here.

I'm not that great at skating skill evaluation, but I think if you pay attention to her feet (which is admittedly difficult to do when a skater like Sasha is so darn GOOD from above the ankles) you can see she barely uses the edges of her blades at all. I do think it's pretty impressive that she has so little edgework, yet manages not to be painfully slow or compromise her posture/carriage. But yeah, can someone more knowledgable weigh in here?

Ideally, it is easiest if you watch them live. It is visually obvious who is moving smoothly across. Watch also for the lean which is a tell tale sign of edge use - PChan is a very easy one to spot for this. In addition, just see how they turn, how easily they can vary speed and how often the edges can be held in place. That is a major diff between singles skaters and ice dancers.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Hmm the current crop of active US ladies have SS that is quite meh really - Gracie is the only one with superb SS but is currently MIA.

Courtney has great skating skills.

 

[Globetrotter]

Sasha Cohen has awful SS? Oh man I just must be awful at seeing that...
Sasha has wonderful SS, in my opinion. Just look at her Rach 2 and Swan Lake step sequences!

I think you are just mesmerized by how beautiful she looks ankle up. Her spirals and performance are beautiful but if you look below the ankles, there is barely any edge and there is noticeably no lean in her skating. Watch someone like Michelle Kwan or Shizuka Arakawa for their spirals. They don't have Sasha's lines and crazy flexibility but just watch their ability to in one push move across the ice and hold the change of edge without moving their arms and body - that requires superb edge control. Sasha never has done a proper COE spiral. Watch also CaroK's Ave Maria SP in 2014 especially the StSq on how sharp and smooth the turns are and how she could hang on the edges. As far as my understanding of what ISU defines as SS, nope, not Cohen. But where interpretation and performance are concerned, yes, I agree, few others matches her natural musicality and X-factor on ice.

 

[mrrice]

That might be true. All of the real contenders for Olympic medals are participating in the GP, so to be top 6 in that group says a lot.

And that's the dilemma.....Training and travel time need to be taken into consideration. However, there's no better chance to be seen skating against the real contenders going into the Olympics than the GPF. Even if she places 6th, she keeps herself in the conversation with the international judges. The panel at GPF will "Most Likely" be the closest to an Olympic panel that Ashley will see going in, and should she make the final, she should definitely go.

 

[Bcash]

Sasha Cohen has awful SS? Oh man I just must be awful at seeing that...
Sasha has wonderful SS, in my opinion. Just look at her Rach 2 and Swan Lake step sequences!

I don't think Cohen was ever known in her career for having super SS. She had great lines. But that's about it.

 

[mrrice]

I don't think Cohen was ever known in her career for having super SS. She had great lines. But that's about it.

I never saw Sasha compete but, I did see her in Stars On Ice. I was able to see them practice and the first thing that struck me about Sasha was how tiny and thin she was. This was actually between her retirement and her 2010 comeback. If you look at her body in 2010 you can see that she was thin as a rake. During SOI, she wasn't really jumping as she did several spirals, spins, big falling leafs, and Russian split jumps. She was very entertaining and during her career when she skated well, she won. Her problem was that she rarely had two error free programs in competition. Here she is in 2010....She looks like a little girl but she was in her 20's. https://cdn-s3.si.com/images/20170630_SashaCohen_00013.JPG

 

[ask]

Me too! I’m really bad at telling whether or not a skater has good skating skills. Usually I just watch for if a skater is 1)jerking their body around; 2) speed . And that’s all I know. How to tell if a skater has good SS and edge quality? Can someone post a video of an example of what’s good and what’s bad SS?

You can go and check out shizuka 2006 lp and sasha 2006 lp. Pay attention to the edge work. Look at the effort and deep edge and speed and compare them. Sasha at this point improved her skating skills a lot, but compare to shizuka's, it is like a juvenile compare to an ice dancer.

 

[andromache]

I never saw Sasha compete but, I did see her in Stars On Ice. I was able to see them practice and the first thing that struck me about Sasha was how tiny and thin she was. This was actually between her retirement and her 2010 comeback. If you look at her body in 2010 you can see that was thin as a rake. During SOI, she wasn't really jumping as she did several spirals, spins, big falling leafs, and Russian split jumps. She was very entertaining and during her career, when she skated well she won. Her problem was that she rarely had an error free program in competition. Here she is in 2010....https://cdn-s3.si.com/images/20170630_SashaCohen_00013.JPG

She's always been tiny, but in 2010 she actually scared me with how tiny she was! I assume she lost some muscle/overall fitness during her four years off, and then just tried to get back into competitive shape without necessarily putting in all the training time she would've needed to really get back into competitive shape....

 

[LiamForeman]

You can go and check out shizuka 2006 lp and sasha 2006 lp. Pay attention to the edge work. Look at the effort and deep edge and speed and compare them. Sasha at this point improved her skating skills a lot, but compare to shizuka's, it is like a juvenile compare to an ice dancer.

Funny you should compare the two. I remember being at the GPF in 2003 and Sasha was favored to win with her Swan Lake. During practices I couldn't take my eyes off Shizuka, she had so much power and was really INTO the ice, whereas Sasha was a porcelain doll skating on the ice and rather weakly. I was asking my friends "What am I seeing in Shizuka that the judges can't seem to???" Shizuka was clearly the best SKATER out there. I felt vindicated when Shizuka won Worlds a couple months later.

 

[LiamForeman]

Ideally, it is easiest if you watch them live. It is visually obvious who is moving smoothly across. Watch also for the lean which is a tell tale sign of edge use - PChan is a very easy one to spot for this. In addition, just see how they turn, how easily they can vary speed and how often the edges can be held in place. That is a major diff between singles skaters and ice dancers.

Exactly. SS don't really scream at you on tv. But in the rink it is plain as day. I couldn't stand Slutskaya's skating, but her skating SKILLS were evident in person. Sasha was not very fast, had to do twice as many crossovers to get across the ice, and just was a clearly weaker skater.

 

[bevybean]

Figure skating involves more than strength or muscle mass. It's a sport where a gaining a few pounds can have an incredible impact on what you're able to do, and being stronger or more muscular might not be all that helpful.

In addition, any elite athlete is going to experience more aches and pains the longer they've been competing (i.e., as they get older), and those can have a dramatic impact on the intensity with which athletes can train, or how long or how often they can train.

While all of this is true, I think there is a genetic component as well. Some people get injured more easily than others. Some people heal faster than others. Some people can maintain a higher metabolism longer than others. That's why you get people on here disagreeing about "how old is too old" etc. There are also people out there who are much stronger than they look, so the slender form is maintained making them at least more aerodynamic than someone at the same strength level.

I'm Ashley has good reasoning behind what competitions she goes to and how many. She has been competing for long enough that she is done "learning how to compete" at this point.