Maybe that was a rhetorical question, but I'm of the (bleak) opinion that Ashley's physical prime has passed, and the overall jump quality is going to be less than it was from 2012-2016. For example, I don't think we'll see a credited 3F-3T this season. The loop will probably get tidied up with more training, I'd imagine. Bear in mind it was a strict tech panel at Skate Canada, so that was probably the most < we'll see, knock on wood.
2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating
- Thread starter R.D.
- Start date
Maybe that was a rhetorical question, but I'm of the (bleak) opinion that Ashley's physical prime has passed, and the overall jump quality is going to be less than it was from 2012-2016. For example, I don't think we'll see a credited 3F-3T this season. The loop will probably get tidied up with more training, I'd imagine. Bear in mind it was a strict tech panel at Skate Canada, so that was probably the most < we'll see, knock on wood.
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- Nov 5, 2017
for me the u.s. ladies are too unpredictable, they are no where skating to their potential. i saw some in bradie tennel, mariah,
mirai- too inconsistent-not enough transititons,
ashley-seem too scared when on ice
courtney- i dont know
karen- seem to be scare on ice
the us ladies should go out confidently and skate; know we have this, skate and not worry about placements, things can't control. i know they say that they do that, but they some how don't skate when competition starts.
it almost like they like the skating, competing but not the competition part, ex- i like competing, but i don't mind if you beat me skating, i can't be that score, no matter what.
the men just goes all out and does what they know they can do and it shows; falls/all.
mirai- too inconsistent-not enough transititons,
ashley-seem too scared when on ice
courtney- i dont know
karen- seem to be scare on ice
the us ladies should go out confidently and skate; know we have this, skate and not worry about placements, things can't control. i know they say that they do that, but they some how don't skate when competition starts.
it almost like they like the skating, competing but not the competition part, ex- i like competing, but i don't mind if you beat me skating, i can't be that score, no matter what.
the men just goes all out and does what they know they can do and it shows; falls/all.
But it seems odd that her flip and lutz look better this season. I have never seen such a good second half 3F from her at both Skate Canada and the club competition she did earlier this season.. The lutz, though still having edge problems, looked higher and stronger at Skate Canada.
The loop is the only one that looks worse
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- Feb 9, 2014
Completely agree the flip and lutz looked incredibly strong at Skate Canada. Her loops though had very poor elevation. I hope the reason for this is that she just hasn't been practicing them due to her relative strength with them. Therefore, they will get much better quickly once she focuses some mental energy on them.
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- Aug 12, 2014
Your question has been knocking around in my head. I really and truly believe that there's something about the sport as it was practiced, seen and judged in the 6.0 era that appealed more to Americans. I think that's why audiences have fallen off so drastically, and that it's somehow connected to why our women did so well previously. It's that marriage of athleticism and artistry, performance and emotion, that somehow speaks to the strengths of women and what the culture values, and captures our collective imagination.
As for the women skaters, they're competitors, so they're striving to compete against the best, while also showing the values in their skating that mean the most to them. Maybe ... I mean what do I know, but that's what I think. Ashley's not the only one who alludes to it, but she artiulates it well. She's fiercely competitive, she's motivated to keep working because she wants to excel, and she keeps saying that she's at heart a performer, she wants to give audiences something and make them feel something.
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- Jul 9, 2014
I wouldn't worry too much. Karen Chen, Polina Edmunds, Starr Andrews, Bradie Tennel, Tessa Hong, and Kaitlyn Nguyen are all under 20 and I'm sure there are a couple of skaters I'm forgetting. Whether or not any of them will be competitive with the Russians seems doubtful but, they are certainly competitive with the other countries.
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2014
^^^ True. And Courtney and Mariah are only 21. Someone said in this thread a couple of days ago that Mariah is comparatively young, but not that young. Ashley said in one of her Olympic promotion interviews several days ago that even when she went to the Sochi Olympics, at age 22, it was said that she was "past her prime." Well, that was before Carolina Kostner won a bronze Olympic medal at age 26 or 27. So, who knows. Strange things happen in this world.
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- Jul 31, 2014
I am coming to accept that USA ladies peak later. And you know what? i am ok with this. Frankly, it might be nice for all ladies to hit a peak they are proud of in their early 20s rather than mid to late teens.
Maybe we won't reach the top of the podium... but really i watch the World Championships for far more than the top three skates. I am still happy with top ten finishes and 3 spots. If the USA ladies just hit their stride when they are older and more independent, I can live with this, and frankly maybe we should just accept it rather than panicking so soon and writing skaters off so soon while always looking for the next skater to hype to hell and back. If we have a string of late bloomers... ill keep watching and enjoying, it is just not the end of the world.
I think it is time we stop applying Japanese and Russian standards to our ladies. We are not all the same. Let our ladies have the careers they have and stop seeing everyone who is not a phenom at 13 as too old. We have got to stop thinking there is only one "right" path, or that you have to have X by Y age.
Maybe we won't reach the top of the podium... but really i watch the World Championships for far more than the top three skates. I am still happy with top ten finishes and 3 spots. If the USA ladies just hit their stride when they are older and more independent, I can live with this, and frankly maybe we should just accept it rather than panicking so soon and writing skaters off so soon while always looking for the next skater to hype to hell and back. If we have a string of late bloomers... ill keep watching and enjoying, it is just not the end of the world.
I think it is time we stop applying Japanese and Russian standards to our ladies. We are not all the same. Let our ladies have the careers they have and stop seeing everyone who is not a phenom at 13 as too old. We have got to stop thinking there is only one "right" path, or that you have to have X by Y age.
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- Apr 24, 2017
But you have one talent by Japanese and Russian standards (age and ability). 
She was two time JGP medalist at the age of 14 and while her career haven't developed as quickly as by Japanese and Russian standards, Karen Chen is no less talented than any of Russian and Japanese ladies (said by Marin Honda and Russian babies' uberfan). She's absolutely elite skater by potential - will she get there is a different question.
She was two time JGP medalist at the age of 14 and while her career haven't developed as quickly as by Japanese and Russian standards, Karen Chen is no less talented than any of Russian and Japanese ladies (said by Marin Honda and Russian babies' uberfan). She's absolutely elite skater by potential - will she get there is a different question.
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2014
This is an excellent post. I absolutely
every single thing you said. I would actually much rather be able to watch skaters develop their talent and artistry over several years. If Ashley had made the trip to 2010 olympics that she was hoping for, she said she expected to go to college and have a normal life. We'd never have seen Pollack, her Black Swan, Shine On You Crazy Diamond, HHCC, or Moulin Rouge. 
The problem is the most talented US Ladies in the last decade or so were or are headcases who aren't consistent. Mirai, Alissa C, Gracie who probably had the most natural talent and best chance to win a World title and now Karen. The most consistent skaters the US has had like Rachael Flatt were never going to win a World title or get on the podium.But you have one talent by Japanese and Russian standards (age and ability).
She was two time JGP medalist at the age of 14 and while her career haven't developed as quickly as by Japanese and Russian standards, Karen Chen is no less talented than any of Russian and Japanese ladies (said by Marin Honda and Russian babies' uberfan). She's absolutely elite skater by potential - will she get there is a different question.
I've seen this term "headcase" thrown out a few times on here. Could we retire that? All of those girls you just listed showed talent at a young age and the country siezed on them as the answer to their medal drought woes. Not being able to handle the unreasonable expectations of one of the largest nations in the world as a teenager doesn't make you a headcase--it just makes you human. The Taras, the Sarahs, the Ashleys--they're all incredibly talented, but at no point in their career did someone point at them and yell "Messiah." Imagine going through what Gracie did, having the entire country watch your every move, analyze your body when it inevitably changes, question why you're not getting gold at every Grand Prix event, suddenly becoming your family's major breadwinner just as your career is faltering. Failing to meet impossible standards does not make someone a headcase.
Yes, please. I hate the word "headcase" and I hate how casually and readily it's thrown around. It's such an ugly way to dismiss someone — in one word, you completely diminish a body of someone's work with all the effort, sweat, and tears that go with that, and sum them up as a total loss because they had bad days. I don't have a problem with saying someone's not a great competitor, or that they're not mentally tough, or that nerves are an issue — those attempt to see a person with their flaws, but they don't turn the entire person into a flaw.
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- Sep 8, 2016
People may find this silly, but after all the talk in this thread about bad crossovers and bad SS, could someone please post a few videos of a few skaters with poor SS and some with excellent SS?
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- Apr 2, 2009
No, I was not referring to those posts. I was referring to posts that are derogatory. The Moulin Rouge posts do not fit the definition of derogatory,
Just watch this SP of Mira Nagasu. She starts her program at 00:44 and did pretty much crossover and 2foot skating until 01:31. That's 47 seconds. What's frustrating is that it doesnt feel like they are even trying to conceal it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwUTD3MQPhc
I'll post when i get the time
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2017
She performed her axel jump and that’s the only break from the 2 foot skating. She only started doing meaningful steps when she is going for the 2nd jump but until then nothing is happening except for 1 or 2 turns
She's going for a triple axel. Typically when skaters are going for very difficult jumps like this, there are very few transistion. Especially since she needs a lot of speed and needs to concentrate on the technique.
Skating skills encompasses a lot more than just one footed skating. It may be better to find a video that explains that and provides examples of good and bad skating skills. I've seen it before, but I cannot remember the title.
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- Jan 23, 2009
Yes, we know, Mirai has a really, really, really, really long setup for her triple axel. What can you do though? It's a new jump, it's difficult, and she has to concentrate a lot to execute it. The time that appears to be empty choreographically also contains the most difficult technical elements.
15 seconds for preparing and executing the triple axel
13 seconds for preparing and executing the triple flip-triple toe
It's not like the rest of the program is great either, but look. Mirai is clearly having trouble with combination jumps. Maybe she does need to concentrate on executing the technical elements.
As far as Olympic team chances, it's not a bad situation to be in. The US has 3 spots, and except for Ashley, there been no standout lady. If Mirai fully rotates her jumps at Nationals and at her next event, she will be chosen for the team.
15 seconds for preparing and executing the triple axel
13 seconds for preparing and executing the triple flip-triple toe
It's not like the rest of the program is great either, but look. Mirai is clearly having trouble with combination jumps. Maybe she does need to concentrate on executing the technical elements.
As far as Olympic team chances, it's not a bad situation to be in. The US has 3 spots, and except for Ashley, there been no standout lady. If Mirai fully rotates her jumps at Nationals and at her next event, she will be chosen for the team.
