- Joined
- Jan 3, 2007
You're welcome. I think she has outgrown the current programs. I wish she had time to change them.
2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating
- Thread starter R.D.
- Start date
You're welcome. I think she has outgrown the current programs. I wish she had time to change them.
I think placement is a better indicator than actual score. At least to me, placements generally tend to be right even when I have questions on the actual scoring.
While the Technical score should be consistent across judging panels, it is not since GOEs are subjective. Whether a judge adds / subtracts a bullet is based on a judge''s personal opinion of the skated element. Judge 1 may think the lutz had a tricky entry and was executed with great height and a nice delay in rotation, all factors in + GOEs. Judge 2 may think the same lutz was average and the entry was nothing spectacular so gives 0 GOEs. Then you get technical specialists that are generous vs picky.
All of these subjection decisions are fair and correct when the same standards are applied across the group. Since the dynamics of the panel is rarely the same from one competition to the next, the scores between competitions are bound will fluctuate. The IJS does not keep world records for this reason.
But the IJS does need a way to compare skaters and due to lack of any other comparison tool, they have to rely on scores.
To determine GP finalists, points are assigned based on placements. Scores are only factored in then the placement points are tied.
I've said it before and I'll say it again--Polina is still quite young--she's 19. She's younger than Ashley, Mirai, Mariah, Courtney. She's the same age as Bradie Tennell. She has gone from no triples over the summer, to falling on most of them at Glacier Falls, to falling and popping on half of them at Finlandia to doing a skate at the Grand Prix where she two-foots a landing on a combo, but the rest of her program is clean.
I'm sure she'd love to be doing better, but she's made solid progress over the past four months. I doubt her FS will go perfectly--I think one of her issues has been building back her stamina--but I see no sign of her not taking skating seriously or getting ready to quit--she's made too much progress. She's always attended school while skating. I suspect her not putting the rest of her life on hold for skating is one of the reasons she has the grit she has.
I also think Polina still has something to prove--she got close enough to the U.S. championship to taste it. She got to the Olympics, but wasn't in the team competition, so no medal. I'm not going to say she has a good shot for the Olympic team, but I think she has a good shot for a top five finish at Nationals, which will keep her in the conversation.
I'm sure she'd love to be doing better, but she's made solid progress over the past four months. I doubt her FS will go perfectly--I think one of her issues has been building back her stamina--but I see no sign of her not taking skating seriously or getting ready to quit--she's made too much progress. She's always attended school while skating. I suspect her not putting the rest of her life on hold for skating is one of the reasons she has the grit she has.
I also think Polina still has something to prove--she got close enough to the U.S. championship to taste it. She got to the Olympics, but wasn't in the team competition, so no medal. I'm not going to say she has a good shot for the Olympic team, but I think she has a good shot for a top five finish at Nationals, which will keep her in the conversation.
She's slowly working her way back, but meanwhile the clock is ticking - 1.5 months to the Nationals. I stand by what I said earlier - can't juggle school/skating AND come back from injury AND expect miracles.
I don't know if she plans on staying beyond 2018, but she seems fairly committed to her studies at this point.
I don't know if she plans on staying beyond 2018, but she seems fairly committed to her studies at this point.
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2014
It looks like things didn't go well for Polina in the Free Program, she actually dropped a place and finished 9th. None of our Ladies has been truly impressive this season and the Podium seems to be up for grabs at Nationals.....May the best skaters get on the podium....
Nationals
I think top 3 are Ashley/Mirai/Karen. They control their destiny. I love Bell but consistency is killer. US is desperate for a new face but I don’t think they will risk sending a somewhat unknown to Olympics. It would have to be an amazing Nationals performance. It’s a game we’ve all seen over the years. A bit predetermined. Just my 2 cents.
I think top 3 are Ashley/Mirai/Karen. They control their destiny. I love Bell but consistency is killer. US is desperate for a new face but I don’t think they will risk sending a somewhat unknown to Olympics. It would have to be an amazing Nationals performance. It’s a game we’ve all seen over the years. A bit predetermined. Just my 2 cents.
I also wonder if the way Nationals 2016 ended for her also kind of dampered her a bit. I think she really thought she was going to win the 2016 U.S. title and then Gracie Gold just snatched it away from her.
The injuries don't help, of course, but look at the U.S. men -- all the top five contenders went through SOME injury in the last two years (some more severe than others) and they all came back relatively quickly and stronger than ever.
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2014
I agree. Nathan and Adam have both had setbacks. I don't know if Max was injured but, he certainly did not have a good showing last year. He's getting back to his old self and I'm hoping he can pull himself up during the FP in France.
Max references his stomach surgery (related to a hernia injury, I believe) in this new article from TdF: http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2017/11/17/262082470/aaron-embraces-mathematical-aspect-of-skating
And Jason, of course with this back injury in 2016 and his stress fracture last season. Vincent was injured for a part of last season as well when he aggravated a previous hip injury.
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2017
i am not going to state who i think should go to worlds, olympics /or make the team.
This year unlike some past Olympic years for the U. S. Ladies no one is standing out and making a statement outside of
Bradie Tennell this year.
I hoped they would be better, but they know what is best for them.
Seeing how the other countries ladies skaters are progressing versus the U.S. i am afraid they might fall further behind .
No one really showed progress, Skate America is next.
I didn't expect a lot from Polina,
But with all of Mirai's talk, i expected more consistency from her this year, Talk of the triple axel, but now in her 10 year in sport 9 years on senior level (2008) . i expected more from her. Not just hit , miss this inconsistent.
Yes the ur's doesn't help, but if the ladies have the speed, height,jumps (they do) i can't figure out why they don't do it in later on in season and just "wait for the worlds, nat'ls, olympics."
you want to judges to know what can do know with all mistakes and see the improvements made. but what do i know.
i am improving those jumps, etc. i try to clean up not all time, but notice improvement. Keep improving from one year to next.
judges, tech panel, fickle, rules change
my two cents:sad21:
This year unlike some past Olympic years for the U. S. Ladies no one is standing out and making a statement outside of
Bradie Tennell this year.
I hoped they would be better, but they know what is best for them.
Seeing how the other countries ladies skaters are progressing versus the U.S. i am afraid they might fall further behind .
No one really showed progress, Skate America is next.
I didn't expect a lot from Polina,
But with all of Mirai's talk, i expected more consistency from her this year, Talk of the triple axel, but now in her 10 year in sport 9 years on senior level (2008) . i expected more from her. Not just hit , miss this inconsistent.
Yes the ur's doesn't help, but if the ladies have the speed, height,jumps (they do) i can't figure out why they don't do it in later on in season and just "wait for the worlds, nat'ls, olympics."
you want to judges to know what can do know with all mistakes and see the improvements made. but what do i know.
i am improving those jumps, etc. i try to clean up not all time, but notice improvement. Keep improving from one year to next.
judges, tech panel, fickle, rules change
my two cents:sad21:
Speaking as a former skater, I feel talent levels have been on the decline for the past few years at the Junior and Senior levels for the women. Participation at all levels is low. Skate America will be extremely telling.
- Joined
- May 17, 2011
I think underrotations disappearing over the course of a season is a matter of peaking, fitness, and pacing, and not just not doing it. You build a foundation for fitness at the beginning, and individual skills, but then you progress to a point where you have the stamina for a more difficult program and can taper before the Olympics. For that reason, peak performance doesn't happen until you are later in the season.
Hi there, nice to see you posting.
Bright spot over at Sectionals: Hanna Harrell won Midwestern sectionals in junior ladies with two very good programs and hit both her 3F-3T (rippon!) attempts and a 2A-1L-3S in the free. She got 70+ TES in the free!! We've had one too many junior ladies not translate that success to seniors, but for now, good job Hanna! I'm very glad USFS gave her JGP experience even if it wasn't entirely successful -- it seems like it benefited her greatly.
Also I love me some Emmy Ma. Congrats to her for winning Eastern Sectionals in senior ladies! Can't wait to see her at Nationals.
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- Joined
- Jul 9, 2014
I agree. When was the last we had a Junior World Champion in the ladies event? I just checked, our last ladies champion was Racheal Flatt in 2008. Caroline Zhang is still skating and she won way back in 2007. With Gracie out, we haven't had a junior medalist of any color in 5 years. That's a problem that needs to be addressed by the Federation.
I think they're trying to send younger skaters to more competitions. In the men they even sent to Novice-level skaters to JGP. And Hanna Harrell, who I mentioned above, was not only sent to a JGP but the Asian Trophy this past summer. I think there are efforts, it's a matter of when (or if?) those efforts will come to fruition.
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- Joined
- Feb 16, 2010
We have our first groups of Nationals qualifiers (via Sectionals) in Junior and Senior Ladies.
Easterns
Juniors:
1) Ting Cui - 163.31 = 48.93 (5) + 114.38 (1)
- Some tech issues in the SP including a fall and low levels, but solid in the FS including a 3Lz-1Lo-3S with a 1.12 GOE!
- Was 6th at JGP Brisbane this season
2) Audrey Shin - 156.97 = 54.21 (3) + 102.76 (2)
- Attempted a 3F-3T in the SP but underrotated the 3T, then had a solid 3Lz-3T in the FS
- 2nd in Advanced Novice at last season's Golden Bear competition in Croatia
3) Gabriella Izzo - 149.60 = 54.75 (2) + 94.85 (3)
- Decently solid in the SP and FS, including no negative GOE!
4) Emily Zhang - 140.54 = 56.54 (1) + 84.00 (4)
- Strong levels in the SP but struggled in the FS with a pop and some underrotations and a fall.
Julia Biechler, who also competes in Senior Dance with Damian Dodge, was 4th after the SP but fell to 5th and missed qualifying due to lower tech score (only one triple, and it was UR)
Seniors
1) Emmy Ma - 167.61 = 61.45 (1) + 106.11 (1)
- Lovely SP including all Level 4 Spins/Steps, and all Level 4 Spins in the FS despite some jump struggles
- Won bronze at the Riga JGP event this season, the only US lady to medal on the circuit this year!
2) Franchesca Chiera - 153.33 = 55.96 (2)+ 97.37 (4)
- A couple Level 4 spins in the SP and then some level issues and pops in the FS
- 10th at the 2017 Philadelphia Summer International
3) Katie McBeath - 147.29 = 49.53 (4) + 97.76 (3)
- Lost points in the SP because of an invalidated solo 2F, but good spins and steps despite a few pops
4) Megan Wessenberg - 146.44 = 44.71 (5) + 101.73 (2)
- 2 falls in the SP resulting in no combination, then all Level 4 spins in the FS though some pops
- 6th at last year's Czech JGP
Former Nationals competitors at Novice or above who missed out this year - Heidi Munger, Olivia Serafini (2014-2015 Junior silver), Rebecca Peng, Jordan Bauth, and Haley Beavers (2015-2016 Novice champion)
Midwesterns:
Juniors
1) Hanna Harrell - 189.05 = 65.43 (1) + 123.62 (1)
- Great levels on spins/steps plus a 3F-3T with a 1.58 GOE in the SP, and all Level 4s in the FS plus another 3F-3T with a 1.40 GOE
- 7th at this year's Italy JGP
- Additional note: Hanna was the 2016 Juvenile silver medalist. And now she's solidly in Juniors!
2) Jenna Shi - 161.76 = 53.17 (4) + 108.59 (2)
- All Level 4 spins in the SP though an edge call on her 3Lz, then a great 6 triple FS (2 Flips, 2 Salchows, 1 Lutz, 1 Loop)
- Was a JGP alternate this season
3) Pooja Kalyan - 151.35 = 56.34 (2) + 95.01 (4)
- All Level 4 spins and attempted a 3T-3T but fell in the SP, and then some falls and underrotation issues in the FS
- 3rd in Advanced Novice at last season's Golden Bear competition in Croatia
4) Angelina Huang - 150.71 = 53.61 (3) + 97.10 (3)
- A few Level 4 spins in the SP, then good spin/step levels and 5 triples in the FS
- 10th at the Austria JGP this season
Seniors are in a little less than 3 hours (4:55 PM CST, or 5:55 PM EST)
Pacific Coasts:
Junior Ladies FS is at 8:55 AM PST/11:55 AM EST on Sunday 11/18.
Senior Ladies FS is at 12:00 PM PST/3:00 PM EST on Sunday 11/18
Easterns
Juniors:
1) Ting Cui - 163.31 = 48.93 (5) + 114.38 (1)
- Some tech issues in the SP including a fall and low levels, but solid in the FS including a 3Lz-1Lo-3S with a 1.12 GOE!
- Was 6th at JGP Brisbane this season
2) Audrey Shin - 156.97 = 54.21 (3) + 102.76 (2)
- Attempted a 3F-3T in the SP but underrotated the 3T, then had a solid 3Lz-3T in the FS
- 2nd in Advanced Novice at last season's Golden Bear competition in Croatia
3) Gabriella Izzo - 149.60 = 54.75 (2) + 94.85 (3)
- Decently solid in the SP and FS, including no negative GOE!
4) Emily Zhang - 140.54 = 56.54 (1) + 84.00 (4)
- Strong levels in the SP but struggled in the FS with a pop and some underrotations and a fall.
Julia Biechler, who also competes in Senior Dance with Damian Dodge, was 4th after the SP but fell to 5th and missed qualifying due to lower tech score (only one triple, and it was UR)
Seniors
1) Emmy Ma - 167.61 = 61.45 (1) + 106.11 (1)
- Lovely SP including all Level 4 Spins/Steps, and all Level 4 Spins in the FS despite some jump struggles
- Won bronze at the Riga JGP event this season, the only US lady to medal on the circuit this year!
2) Franchesca Chiera - 153.33 = 55.96 (2)+ 97.37 (4)
- A couple Level 4 spins in the SP and then some level issues and pops in the FS
- 10th at the 2017 Philadelphia Summer International
3) Katie McBeath - 147.29 = 49.53 (4) + 97.76 (3)
- Lost points in the SP because of an invalidated solo 2F, but good spins and steps despite a few pops
4) Megan Wessenberg - 146.44 = 44.71 (5) + 101.73 (2)
- 2 falls in the SP resulting in no combination, then all Level 4 spins in the FS though some pops
- 6th at last year's Czech JGP
Former Nationals competitors at Novice or above who missed out this year - Heidi Munger, Olivia Serafini (2014-2015 Junior silver), Rebecca Peng, Jordan Bauth, and Haley Beavers (2015-2016 Novice champion)
Midwesterns:
Juniors
1) Hanna Harrell - 189.05 = 65.43 (1) + 123.62 (1)
- Great levels on spins/steps plus a 3F-3T with a 1.58 GOE in the SP, and all Level 4s in the FS plus another 3F-3T with a 1.40 GOE
- 7th at this year's Italy JGP
- Additional note: Hanna was the 2016 Juvenile silver medalist. And now she's solidly in Juniors!
2) Jenna Shi - 161.76 = 53.17 (4) + 108.59 (2)
- All Level 4 spins in the SP though an edge call on her 3Lz, then a great 6 triple FS (2 Flips, 2 Salchows, 1 Lutz, 1 Loop)
- Was a JGP alternate this season
3) Pooja Kalyan - 151.35 = 56.34 (2) + 95.01 (4)
- All Level 4 spins and attempted a 3T-3T but fell in the SP, and then some falls and underrotation issues in the FS
- 3rd in Advanced Novice at last season's Golden Bear competition in Croatia
4) Angelina Huang - 150.71 = 53.61 (3) + 97.10 (3)
- A few Level 4 spins in the SP, then good spin/step levels and 5 triples in the FS
- 10th at the Austria JGP this season
Seniors are in a little less than 3 hours (4:55 PM CST, or 5:55 PM EST)
Pacific Coasts:
Junior Ladies FS is at 8:55 AM PST/11:55 AM EST on Sunday 11/18.
Senior Ladies FS is at 12:00 PM PST/3:00 PM EST on Sunday 11/18
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2016
Ting is a huge talent. That s a great score for a junior. She got 12.21 for the 3-1-3 combo. I saw her at jgp and she was so impressive. For the future she really needs to work on spins and steps levels. That is what holds her back. Hanna, amazing here. She is also someone to watch for, could very well be junior champ this year. She could also be competitive internationally next season. Really. When you look to the future of US ladies skating it is no doubt these two. Ting, especially, has solid reliable jump technique that will allow her to go far.
That competition starts in an hour. Amber Glenn is at sectionals this year. She has a bye because of CoC.
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2014
I'm sorry. Which competition?
