2017-18 State of U.S. Men's Figure Skating | Page 53 | Golden Skate

2017-18 State of U.S. Men's Figure Skating

Vincent posted a two-page handwritten note on Instagram regarding his experience at IdF:
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bbp9bLBlm9P/?hl=en&taken-by=govincentzhou

I think self-reflection is always good, but am curious about what compelled him to share it publicly.

This bit especially raised my eyebrows a bit:
"There are those who love me, adore me, see me as a threat, annoyance, or a source of entertainment and there are those who rather I would quit skating. I am sorry to those whose respect I failed to earn, those whose expectations I did not meet, and those who standards I did not satisfy."

I hope he's not reading forums. Or paying attention to the noise. Cause honestly, regardless of my thoughts on his approach, it's up to him and he doesn't need to respond to anybody.

This also raised some alarm bells for me. Vincent is not beholden to fans, and especially not detractors. I hope there's someone on his team who can help him block out the noise. The focus on naysayers strikes me as especially unhelpful.

Like you said, it's up to him. The world will move on just the same if he wins Nationals, or shows up with all single jumps. The only expectations and standards that matter in the end are his own.

A tricky thing, being a teenager, a public figure (in the skater sense of the word), and managing Olympic aspirations.
 
Vincent posted a two-page handwritten note on Instagram regarding his experience at IdF:
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bbp9bLBlm9P/?hl=en&taken-by=govincentzhou

I think self-reflection is always good, but am curious about what compelled him to share it publicly.

This bit especially raised my eyebrows a bit:
"There are those who love me, adore me, see me as a threat, annoyance, or a source of entertainment and there are those who rather I would quit skating. I am sorry to those whose respect I failed to earn, those whose expectations I did not meet, and those who standards I did not satisfy."

I hope he's not reading forums. Or paying attention to the noise. Cause honestly, regardless of my thoughts on his approach, it's up to him and he doesn't need to respond to anybody.

Since he’s on both Instagram and Twitter, I’d guess he’s keenly aware of his critics. But perhaps his public response is also a continuation of sorts to his recent Ice Talk interview, where he publicly discussed his ambitions, preparations for France, etc.

I actually found him very articulate, outgoing, and charming in that interview. But it’s also clear that he’s extremely ambitious and driven - as well as a perfectionist. So while I think there are a lot of external expectations - and that he’s probably being pushed to develop too quickly - I think some of the pressure is internal. He expects a lot of himself, and he’s pretty candid that making this Olympic team is his goal, so it’s got to have been tough to have underperformed so publicly in France.

I didn’t follow FS closely in the last Olympic cycle, but it seems like this season, pretty much all the guys are feeling a tremendous amount of pressure and are struggling with it, whether by succumbing to illness or injury or more simply by underperforming.
 
I think his note was really nice and well-written and I´d believe it was not easy for him to write that after a big disappointment.

I sure hope he understands NOT to read what skating fans write on different forums, it never is a good idea for any skater. A person from his team could do it now and then, but definitely not Zhou!
 
Hmmmm - that instagram message worries me. It almost sounds like he's alone in all this. God help him if he's reading any skating message board. At the 2012 Nats his mother sat behind us and Vincent was there a lot of the time with his friend Jimmy Ma. Vincent has been very sheltered, home-schooled, and from the way he talked to his Mom we thought he was pretty much calling the shots. Yes this is just an observation but over 5 days of observing, listening and talking to Mrs. Zhou. He had great success prior to Seniors and maybe this is the first time he's had to deal with any adversity.....which goes back to my earlier post that his program is too difficult for this stage of his development and might have led to some insecurities and self-doubt. I hope he does find his way and that someone is helping him. I really can't imagine who would want him to quit skating!
 
Hmmmm - that instagram message worries me. It almost sounds like he's alone in all this. God help him if he's reading any skating message board. At the 2012 Nats his mother sat behind us and Vincent was there a lot of the time with his friend Jimmy Ma. Vincent has been very sheltered, home-schooled, and from the way he talked to his Mom we thought he was pretty much calling the shots. Yes this is just an observation but over 5 days of observing, listening and talking to Mrs. Zhou. He had great success prior to Seniors and maybe this is the first time he's had to deal with any adversity.....which goes back to my earlier post that his program is too difficult for this stage of his development and might have led to some insecurities and self-doubt. I hope he does find his way and that someone is helping him. I really can't imagine who would want him to quit skating!

He was calling the shots or his mom was?
 
I think his note was really nice and well-written and I´d believe it was not easy for him to write that after a big disappointment.

I sure hope he understands NOT to read what skating fans write on different forums, it never is a good idea for any skater. A person from his team could do it now and then, but definitely not Zhou!

This is why I have such a problem with public people writing their "personal" feelings for the "public" to read. My Father used to tell us get our feelings out at the dinner table. That way, you'd get a sympathetic and true response. We had email during my touring time but, you couldn't send it for the world to see like you can these days. I said some personal, mean, things to my friends via email but, only to my closest friends. I know he was upset but, this can become a huge distraction if he lets outside people effect him, and the way he feels about himself.
 
Vincent posts his poetry and other writings on his other Instagram account so I guess he's just accustomed to sharing his thoughts this way.

At this point I'm not particularly concerned about him and his ability to bounce back from this. He's had to overcome injuries and other disappointments before and I expect him to overcome this as well. And I can totally understand his current strategy because with his BV he's a medal threat in any competition he enters. But it's not working out quite how he had hoped and now maybe he and his team need to reassess the situation and come up with a new battle plan. There's still time.
 
Vincent posted a two-page handwritten note on Instagram regarding his experience at IdF:
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bbp9bLBlm9P/?hl=en&taken-by=govincentzhou

I think self-reflection is always good, but am curious about what compelled him to share it publicly.

This bit especially raised my eyebrows a bit:
"There are those who love me, adore me, see me as a threat, annoyance, or a source of entertainment and there are those who rather I would quit skating. I am sorry to those whose respect I failed to earn, those whose expectations I did not meet, and those who standards I did not satisfy."

I hope he's not reading forums. Or paying attention to the noise. Cause honestly, regardless of my thoughts on his approach, it's up to him and he doesn't need to respond to anybody.

I totally agree. Especially young skaters do not need to be intimidated or influenced by armchair babble. And to think Vincent rarely gets roasted on these sites. There are others who get beaten up far far worse.
 
Would it really matter whether one is 7th or 9th out of 11 guys? Both were bad placements and neither of them made the GPF. Maybe all US top guys will be ready at the US Nationals and will really show there what they can do (or in worst case what they can´t do)....?

It will matter if it comes down to Vincent and Max for the last spot on the Olympic team. It will absolutely matter if Team Max can walk into that selection meeting and say, "Here you go, Max has beaten him every time they've gone head to head."
 
I don't know why Vincent continues to do jump layouts that are to much for him to handle at this stage of his career. I'm sure he saw what Nathan did the last couple of seasons but he's not Nathan and lacks not just Nathan's stamina but sheer force of will which is what makes Nathan unique. Even Nathan dropped a quad or two last season when he was skating sloppy early in the season and didn't add them back until he felt he was ready. But seeing that Tom Z was with Vincent now i know why he's so fixated on the jumps but not on his overall skating. I thought Tammy was his coach?
 
But seeing that Tom Z was with Vincent now i know why he's so fixated on the jumps but not on his overall skating. I thought Tammy was his coach?

Tammy Gambill, Drew Meekins, Tom Zakrajsek are his credited coaches. But he is mainly based in Colorado Springs now. So he works with Zakrajsek and Meekins daily unlike Gambill.
 
The senior men's roster is set for Nationals!

Byes (season's best international score)
Nathan Chen 293.79
Adam Rippon 261.99
Max Aaron 261.56
Jason Brown 261.14
Vincent Zhou 256.66
Ross Miner 233.72
Alexei Krasnozhon 225.48
Grant Hochstein 217.52
Andrew Torgashev 212.71

Qualified via Sectionals:
Timothy Dolensky 238.35 (E1)
Alexander Johnson 229.94 (M1)
Tomoki Hiwatashi 218.91 (M2)
Jordan Moeller 218.70 (M3)
Sean Rabbitt 203.29 (P1)
Daniel Kulenkamp 194.75 (P2)
Kevin Shum 193.39 (E2)
Jimmy Ma 190.28 (E3)
Emmanuel Savary 189.74 (E4)
Scott Dyer 188.87 (P3)
Sebastian Payannet 186.50 (P4)
Ben Jalovick 154.72 (M4)

Short program
Timothy Dolensky 84.51
Alexander Johnson 80.70
Jordan Moeller 76.46
Jimmy Ma 72.55
Kevin Shum 67.27
Tomoki Hiwatashi 66.05
Emmanuel Savary 65.43
Sean Rabbitt 65.15
Daniel Kulenkamp 61.62
Scott Dyer 58.89
Sebastien Payannet 58.73
Ben Jalovick 43.46

Free skate
Timothy Dolensky 153.84
Tomoki Hiwatashi 152.86
Alexander Johnson 149.24
Jordan Moeller 142.24
Sean Rabbitt 138.14
Daniel Kulenkamp 133.13
Scott Dyer 129.98
Sebastian Payannet 127.77
Kevin Shum 126.12
Emmanuel Savary 124.31
Jimmy Ma 117.73
Ben Jalovick 111.26

Junior Men
Bye (best international score)
Camden Pulkinen 209.35

Qualified via Sectionals
Maxim Naumov 172.82 (E1)
Paul Yeung 170.40 (P1)
Alex Wellman 169.47 (M1)
Patrick Frohling 169.09 (P2)
Ryan Dunk 167.09 (E2)
Sasha Lunin 164.43 (M2)
Peter Liu 163.94 (E3)
Dinh Tran 163.42 (P3)
Kendrick Weston 162.21 (P4)
Tony Lu 159.01 (E4)
Luke Ferrante 147.26 (M3)
Justin Wichmann 119.23 (M4)

Camden looks posed to win his junior title, but Camden himself was a big surprise last year when beat Alexei K in the SP.
 
Thoughts from the weekend.

Not too much changes in the movement of the top 5 contenders for the Olympic team. We now have 3/5 of those contenders with so-so results - one good GP and one not-so-good GP.

Here are the overall score averages (Challenge/GP) for our top six skaters:
Nathan Chen 284.42
Adam Rippon 255.94
Jason Brown 255.66
Max Aaron 252.82
Vincent Zhou 242.96
Ross Miner 226.84

The concerning thing, for me, is Andrew Torgashev's result at Warsaw Cup. He had an opportunity to medal, and he was far off the podium. He struggled with his 3A jumps in both the SP and FS and his scores at the even are FAR below his best from JGP (His season's best is 212.71 and he scored 182.78, a full 30 points less). He has a chance to redeem himself at JGPF. That drop his score average to 200.35, 12th out of 14th Team USA skaters.

From sectionals: Tomoki Hiwatashi did a lovely 4T-3T in the free skate after a poor SP. He is one of 4 candidates for a JW spot and he's the odd man out for JGPF, so it will be interesting to see if at Nationals he can beat either Andrew or Alexei and get that JW spot. Alexander Johnson won Midwestern sectionals with two good programs, though had a few jump issues.
Timothy Dolensky did well winning Eastern Sectionals. He opted to not try the quad salchow and he skated two solid programs. I'd squarely put him as a contender for that third 4CC spot.
Sean Rabbitt won Pacific Sectionals, but had problems with his 3As.

Up next:
Adam Rippon has a HUGE shot to stand out from this men's field at Skate America by medaling and qualifying for his second GPF. Nathan should qualify easily for GPF easily.

But with all the poor performances at IdF (and Javi's win, send that man a fruit basket!), Jason Brown's prospects for a GPF berth are still alive. He needs to sit back and see how the top four candidates for GPF spots will do. Basically if the Skate America results are: Nathan, Adam/Boyang Jin (in 2nd and/or 3rd), Sergei Voronov , in that order, Jason's out. If Adam/Boyang get 4th, they will have to have score more than 245.11 and 242.62 to pass Jason, if either ends up in 5th, they are out and Jason is in. Jason is also in if Sergei Voronov does not finish top 5 at Skate America. Jason odds to get a GPF spot are against him, but this has been a strange season. Jason will get at least 1st alternate and given the ambitious content and injuries, it's not also out of the realm of possibility that Jason manages to get called up to replace someone that W/Ds from GPF.

This will also be our first view of Ross Miner since the Challenger Series. He had a really good FS at his second event. It will be interesting to see if he can improve his prospects. Alexei Krasnozhon will also be at Tallinn Trophy, which I believe will mark his Challenge Series debut (his senior debut technically came this summer doing the Philadelphia International Senior B).

ETA:
I didn’t follow FS closely in the last Olympic cycle, but it seems like this season, pretty much all the guys are feeling a tremendous amount of pressure and are struggling with it, whether by succumbing to illness or injury or more simply by underperforming.

The quad definitely did not play as prominent role as it does now. The ramping up of the quad in the last few years is pretty noteworthy. Leading up to 2014, it seem like the focus was to just simply encourage men to attempt the quad. They upped the BV, they changed the UR rules (it used to be that a UR=DG) and also upped the scale of values so a well-executed jump would get more points Most of the men attempted 4T and/or 4S and few did both.

The winning FS score -- by Denis Ten --- at 2013 Worlds was 174.92. At 2017 Worlds, Jason's score was a tad higher -- 176.47 -- and he was 7th in the FS. Of course that's also a reflection of PCS inflation. At 2013 Worlds, Patrick Chan had the highest PCS at 89+. Yuzuru got 97+ at Worlds 2017.

And when you think about it the 4LO/4F/4Lz craze only really came into being like two seasons ago when Boyang Jin did 4Z. This is after many, many seasons of most skaters just doing 4S and/or 4T.

I also feel like the season's much longer now than in previous years with the addition of the Challenger Series (which started in the 2014-2015 season) and things like World Team Trophy/Team Challenge Cup. The Challenge Series was supposed to be a way to encourage developing countries to send their skaters, but somehow it's turned into a pre-season tune-up for top skaters.
 
Last edited:
Per its Olympic qualification criteria, does USFS give any weight to skaters who earn enough points on the circuit to be either alternates to the GPF, or, more significantly I suppose, who are originally alternates for GPF but end up competing in GPF due to another skater's injury?

Trying to figure out how much of a leg up Adam and Jason can give themselves after the grand prix series concludes.
 
I think his note was really nice and well-written and I´d believe it was not easy for him to write that after a big disappointment.

I sure hope he understands NOT to read what skating fans write on different forums, it never is a good idea for any skater. A person from his team could do it now and then, but definitely not Zhou!

Certainly, he shouldn't listen to online critics.

Twitter, especially, seems poisonous. I know, because I follow several political figures and journalists who report on them, and that can be a cesspool.
 
This is probably just me being a jerk, but I had a pretty cynical reaction to Vincent's online diary-sharing.

I genuinely enjoy and encourage athletes to share their feelings or whatever in interviews or on social media - they're human beings, and they shouldn't have to shut up and smile just because their job is figure skating instead of talking.

I just think it came off as cheesy. Talking about your words and dreams from your heart, "my heart won't betray me," etc., it's just cheesy to me. I am a cynical jerk. I also personally am made unhappy when skaters apologize to their fans for disappointing us. Skaters don't owe us anything - I don't want anybody to apologize for a bad performance. It makes me feel like they have too much negative pressure on them. Don't apologize for not meeting certain people's standards! You do you, Vincent, go at your own pace. And heck, some people will never be satisfied, either because they're haters or your skating just isn't to their taste.

I certainly hope people aren't nasty enough to send him hate directly, and that his family and coaching team are keeping him from going out of his way to read negativity online.
 
Back
Top