2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating

[ice coverage]

question Does anyone know who Else Bradie coached coached _-Denise Meyers.
she seems to be a good coach.

I seem to recognize her in the past with a few skaters, but i can't remember who?

I do not know ... but will confess that IMO, Denise Myers bears a physical resemblance to Christy Krall.

A resemblance that at times in the past has caused momentary confusion :hopelessness: for me.

---

Anecdote from Bradie at unofficial practice on Wednesday for Skate America:

To my eyes, she looked solid and confident.

She fell only once, IIRC.
And as soon as she did, she gave a little laugh and quickly repositioned herself into a perfect split on the ice.
I appreciated her sense of humor and sorta lemonade-out-of-lemons attitude .​

Congratulations to Bradie for winning the bronze in Lake Placid with 204.10 :yay:.

Hugs to Ashley and Karen .

 

[Icey]

A "new" and wonderful skater has appeared on the scene, Bradie, and now, par for the course, many immediately want to change her and send her to a new coach. Leave her alone .

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

question Does anyone know who Else Bradie coached coached _-Denise Meyers.
she seems to be a good coach.

I seem to recognize her in the past with a few skaters, but i can't remember who?

She used to coach Megan Oster.

 

[risingtrot]

Rafael:
[] I had a serious conversation with her in the summer. I waited, waited for her to start acting normally, but I realized – it’s hard for her. And it’s really hard at her age to start each new season. Motivation passes. She dreamed of becoming a prize-winner at the World Championships, she did it – and then came devastation. I called her to talk, and said: If all this continues, you can finish working with me. Why else to skate if not to win? In California is heat – go on the beach, why go to the ice? We are not polar bears or penguins. I gave her a week to think it over. She brought herself in order. You know she has enough money, if she raised her hand and said ‘I’m free’ a million of “passengers” will come to her. After all, we have different coaches. Some are responsible for what they do. Others – “passengers”. You know, skater is like a rocket flies upwards, and they cling to this rocket. So, I told her, ‘There is plenty who wants to cling to you and to sit with you in the Kiss-and-cry corner’, which I honestly hate.[/]



http://fs-gossips.com/rafael-arutyunyan-some-coaches-cling-to-an-athlete-like-to-a-rocket/

This is an interesting article. Thanks for sharing. I always remember Rafael as one of Mao's coach before. It's good to see that he and Nathan Chen are still working together. You can really see that Rafael supports Nathan.

That said, when I first saw Mariah Bell, I thought she was very promising. Was hoping she'd really shine in future competition. Unfortunate that she hasn't been doing that well recently. Hopefully that will change.

 

[Skater Boy]

It's true that Ashley isn't in as strong a position as she was in 2014. But here's why she's still ahead of all other USA ladies, based on the tiered competitions:
Grand Prix performance: No USA lady made the Final, so no one gets the top-tier credit for that. The only medals were bronzes by Ashley & Bradie. Courtney Hicks gets a bit of a bump here because her 4th in one event gave her the same number of points (9) that Mirai got in two events and more than Karen (7), Mariah (5) and Polina/Amber (0). No one is "ahead" of Ashley here.
2017 Worlds: Ashley's 7th gives her status above everyone except Karen (4th), since Mariah had a weak 12th and no one else was there.
2017 Nationals (lower tier): Karen, Ashley, Mariah, Mirai.

So that leaves 2018 Nationals (the final one of the three in the top tier) as the decider. Very likely, Ashley is "safe" with a podium finish and "possible" with a close 4th. Karen is probably still "safe" in the top 3 (unless she bombs again, at Golden Spin), but not with a 4th; her GPs were just too weak. Bradie likely "safe" in the top 3, unless she goes to Golden Spin & bombs OR is a narrow 3rd over Ashley's 4th. All others likely need a 1st or 2nd, especially if Ashley or Karen are in 4th.

Here is a scenario that would give the committee fits:
1. Courtney/Mirai/Mariah
2. Bradie
3. Karen
4. Ashley

I think this olympic year there could be a lot of surprises. With Evgenia's broken foot, Alina really novice at seniors. Carolina gaining momenum, no one owning it in the states - the uprising of Bradie -which is still one event; Ashley's injuries and Karen unable to keep the momentum from lasat season - i wouldlove for the forgotten one to sneak on the national podium - Caroline Zhang. While the up and comers and returning Polina got GP opportunities there is the forgotten one Ms. Zhang. Wouldn't it be wornderful. I am surprised though despite the issue of peakinig too soon that really no Amerian lady has made a great stake for the olympics. Bradie is of interest because well she is the most recent medal. I am really surprised about Karen; this will somewhat at least for me taint any olympic medal - that it is a bit ofa fluke because even an injured Evgenia is still consistently up there in the medals. With Anna injured, Gabby not in form still after surgery, Evgenia's broken foot, Osmond's inability to skate a clean free skate, inexperienced Alina, Sotskova boring, Satoko small jumps and returning, only two Japanese spots the door is wide open for the American ladies. No one h as delivered - one would think Mirai, Karen and Ashley would have been more aggressive in owning it.

 

[stella luna]

Um, other then us talking on here (and social media) -- is there documented examples of Bradie Tennell suddenly getting the "Great USFSA hope" treatment? On NBC, Johnny and Tara just said that she was now "in the conversation for an Olympic spot." She didn't seem to get differing treatment as a GP medalist on USFSA social media than Nathan or Adam got. There was a cute post about how "In True Cinderella Fashion" she got a medal, but that's it.

I certainly don't see Phil Hersh tweeting that Sam Auxlier thinks she should be going to the Olympics now.

I think there's a distinction between "general buzz" and "USFSA great white hope." As I said, if it seemed I'm talking tons about her, it's cause she caught my attention, but I certainly don't think she's the savior of U.S. Ladies figure skating or anything.

I'd call her a silver lining of hope, since none of the other US ladies are skating like they are in an Olympic season. Mirai's Triple A the exception, of course.

 

[klutzy]

So, the three American women with the top scores are Bradie, Mirai and Mariah. How would they be as an Olympic team? Not really medal contenders, but it would be an interesting range of skaters with quite different strengths.

 

[SkaterX]

Someone gifted me Karen's book and it arrived today in the mail. I already finished it haha. It was a good read! I learned some new things about her and the struggles she has faced along the way.

 

[TontoK]

So, the three American women with the top scores are Bradie, Mirai and Mariah. How would they be as an Olympic team? Not really medal contenders, but it would be an interesting range of skaters with quite different strengths.

Right now? As good as any other American trio that could be pieced together. I don't know if this is the right team or not. Who do you think could do better?

I'm hopeful that US lady skaters are turning a corner, coming down the homestretch to an amazing US Nationals.

But, honestly, I can easily see a circumstance in which the best three Americans are sent to the Olympics, and none of them are in the final flight of the free skate. To do so, someone is going to have to break through against 3 Russians, 2 Japanese, 2 Canadians, and Kostner. That's a big ask.

I think this dismal outlook is the reason we Americans are so excited about Bradie's performances at SkAm.

 

[Mrs. P]

And Bradie's score, as good as it was, is currently only good enough for 12th on the SB's list. She's the only one in the top 12 at the moment. Her saving grace is there are 5 Russians in the top 10 and obviously only three of them will go same goes for the Japanese ladies -- there's 4 of them in the top 12, but, as everyone sadly reminds everyone, only two will go.

There's only one Canadian on the top 12 (Kaetlyn) since Gaby has not done well so far this season.

 

[Mrs. P]

I'm tired, but at TontoK's request. Stats on 3-3s and 2A- combo jumps from U.S. Ladies in Challenger Series/GP. It's pretty telling.

Well, well, well. Mrs P bring the data, one more time.

3-3/2A-3T/2A-1L-3S combs attempted by U.S. Ladies during Senior B + GP (+ positive GOE - negative GOE)

Landed, rotated and + GOE
Angela Wang, 3F-3T,2T, 11.95 (Finlandia Trophy FS) +
Bradie Tennell 3Z-3T, 11.10 (Skate America SP) +
Bradie Tennell 3Z-3T, 11.00 (Skate America FS) +
Bradie Tennell 3Z-3T, 11.00 (Lombardia Trophy SP) +
Bradie Tennell 3Z-3T, 11.00 (Lombardia Trophy FS) +
Mariah Bell, 3Z-3T, 11.00 (Rostelecom Cup FS) +
Courtney HIcks 3F-3Lo, 10.96 (Finlandia Trophy FS) +
Angela Wang 3F-3T, 10.42 (Nebelhorn Trophy) +
Mirai Nagasu, 3F-3T, 10.30 (NHK Trophy FS) +
Amber Glenn, 3F-3T, 10.20 (Cup of China FS) +
Paige Rydberg 3T-3T, 9.72 (U.S. Classic SP) + (Unfortunately she did not make nationals)
Mirai Nagasu, 3F-3T, 9.50 (Rostekecom Cup FS) +
Bradie Tennell 2A-3T, 9.48 (Lombardia FS ) +
Bradie Tennell 2A-3T, 9.16 (Skate America FS) +

Out of 14 +GOE 3-3/2A-3T
Bradie Tennell has 6 of them or nearly 43 percent.
Angela Wang, 2
Mirai Nagasu, 2
Amber Glenn, Mariah Bell, Courtney Hicks and Paige Rydberg, 1 each.

Landed, rotated but - GOE)
Courtney Hicks, 3F-3LO, 9.50 (Skate Canada SP) -
Courtney Hicks, 3F-3Lo, 8.50 (Skate Canada FS) -
Polina Edmunds 2A-3T, 7.40 (IdF FS) -
Livvy Shilling 3T-3T, 6.78 (Autumn Classic SP) - (She won't be at nationals either. )
Mirai Nagasu 2A-3T (planned 2A-3T-2T) 5.18 (Rostelecom Cup FS) -



Landed, but UR + -GOE
Caroline Zhang 3Lo<-3Lo< 9.15 (Tallin Trophy) -
Caroline Zhang 3Lo-3Lo< (Ondrej Nepapa FS) -
Karen Chen, 3Z-3T<, 8.58 (U.S. Classic SP) -
Mariah Bell, 3Z-1L-3S< (attempt to make up for missed 2A-1L-3S), 8.46 (NHK Trophy) -
Mariah Bell, 3Z-3T < 8.2 (U.S. Classic SP) -
Karen Chen 3Z-3T<, 8.00 (Skater America SP) -
Ashley Wagner 3F-3T<, 7.80 (Skate Canada FS) -
Mariah Bell, 3Z-3T<, 7.70 (Rostelecom Cup SP) -
Mariah Bell, 3Z!-3T<, 7.70 (NHK Trophy SP) -
Mariah Bell 2A-1L-3S<, 7.62 (Rostelecom Cup FS) -
Mirai Nagasu 3F-3T<, 7.60 (NHK Trophy SP) -
Karen Chen, 2A-1L-3S<, 7.38 (Skate Canada FS) -
Ashley Wagner 3F-3T< 7.3 (Skate Canada SP) -
Polina Edmunds 2A-1L-3S< 6.80 (IdF FS)
Ashley Wanger 3F-3T< 6.80 (Skate America SP) -
Caroline Zhang 3Lo<-3Lo< 6.66 (Tallin Trophy SP)
Llvvy Shilling 3T-3T< 5.20 (Autumn Classic FS)
Courtney Hicks 3F-3Lo<<, 5.00 (Warsaw Classic FS)
Polina Edmunds 2A-1L-3S<, 4.88 (Finlandia Trophy SP)
Polina Edmunds 3Lo-3T< 6.30 (Internationaux de France) -
Polina Edmunds 3L<-3T<, 5.32 (Finlandia FS)
Mirai Nagasu, 3F-3T<<, 4.50 (Rostelcom Cup SP) -


Popped
Karen Chen, 3Z-2T, 7.90 (planned 3Z-3T combo) (Skate Canada FS) +
Mirai Nagasu 2A-2T-2T (planned 2A-3T-2T) 7.18 (NHK Trophy FS)+
Angela Wang 3F-2T (planned 3F-3T), 7.16 (Tallin Trophy SP) +
Courtney Hicks, 3F-2Lo (planned 3F-3Lo), 5.42 (Autumn Classic SP) +
Polina Edmunds 2A-3T 4.86 (Finlandia Trophy) -
Courtney Hicks, 2Z-1L-3S< (planned 3Z-1L-3S combo), 4.86 (Skate Canada FS) -
Karen Chen, 3Z (planned 3Z-3T combo), 4.10 (Skate Canada SP) -
Mirai Nagasu 3F (planned 3F-3T combo) 3.76 (U.S. Classic SP)
Mariah Bell, 3Z (planned 3Z-3T combo), 3.70 (Rostelecom Cup FS)
Caroline Zhang 3Lo (planned 3Lo-3Lo combo), 3.51 (Ondrej Nepala SP)
Amber Glenn 3F (planned 3F-3T), 3.30 (Cup of China SP) -
Amber Glenn 3F (planned 3F-3T), 3.30 (Lombardia FS)
Angela Wang 3F (planned 3F-3T-2T, 3.20 (Tallin Trophy FS)
Ashley Wagner 3L< (planned 3Lo-1L-3S combo), 2.86 (Skate Canada FS) -
Courtney Hicks, 2Z-1L-3S<< , 2.40 (Warsaw Cup)
Amber Glenn 2A (planned 2A-3T-2T), 2.30 (Cup of China FS) -

 

[skatefan17]

As much as I adored Ashley's skate at the 2016 World's, and as much as I love following her career, she should not get a ticket to the Olympics if she doesn't crack top 3 at Nationals. Period. And I hope she's scored realistically there and not given the unhelpful inflation she usually gets.

 

[quadrupleaxel15]

So, the three American women with the top scores are Bradie, Mirai and Mariah. How would they be as an Olympic team? Not really medal contenders, but it would be an interesting range of skaters with quite different strengths.

...and weaknesses. Mariah is inconsistent and usually gets forgotten about immediately after she skates, Mirai is again not consistent but I want her on the team because of the axel, Bradie is consistent but she is quite new to the scene and I don't think it's possible for her at the moment to be considered an "elite skater" When the top skaters fail, her consistency (provided that she is indeed consistent under real pressure too) helps her but without elite PCS she cannot do much since she will be facing the best technicians out there.

I have the other Olympic teams quite settled in my mind but Ashley's injury with Bradie's success made everything complicated for the US. I think Nationals will matter a lot and Ashley kept saying that the Gold at Nats is her actual goal in her interview precisely because she realized this.

I wish her the best of health and success, because the decision will be a hard one if the Fed has to decide between her and Bradie or Mirai again for example.

 

[charlotte14]

I don't remember how many times Karen has changed her programs back and forth. Her old FS seems to work ok though, maybe she should keep it. But the SP...

 

[klutzy]

Thanks Mrs. P, those numbers are interesting--Bradie's landing her jumps and landing them well. Karen and Ashley don't have a fully rotated triple-triple or double-axel combo. If neither is pulling a Kostner on PCS, it makes no sense to give them any sort of special preference unless the jumps start happening at Nationals.

I think Bradie being a junior so recently may be part of her advantage--she would have been competing against all those young Russians and seen the need for both fully rotated jumps and back-loaded programs. She may be more at home under the new system.

 

[Tutto]

Only now got to watch FS and wow, where were you hiding Bradie? An American immune to an UR bug?!!! (how I miss you Gracie!)
Wishing all the success to Bradie hope she will do well at the Nationals

 

[R.D.]

And Bradie's score, as good as it was, is currently only good enough for 12th on the SB's list. She's the only one in the top 12 at the moment.

Well that just puts things in perspective, doesn’t it? Yikes for the US women

 

[RobinA]

I think this Olympic year will need to be considered an investment in the future for the US Ladies. The problem is number of spots going forward (can't remember if Olympic spots are based on the previous Olympics or previous Worlds) but the more spots the better. Send Bradie to get that first Olympics under her belt just in case her jumps survive a growth spurt. I'm not an Ashley fan, but I've got no problem with a healthy Ashley going, as she usually manages to place well in terms of keeping spots for next time. The third in my mind is wide open. If somebody new goes gangbusters at Nationals and is somewhat grown, I have no problem sending her, again to get Olympic experience. The URers that I can think of have had plenty of time to at least make some progress, which they really have not. Frankly, has anybody ever consistently fixed this problem once they reach the elite level?

 

[creaturelover]

I think this Olympic year will need to be considered an investment in the future for the US Ladies. The problem is number of spots going forward (can't remember if Olympic spots are based on the previous Olympics or previous Worlds) but the more spots the better.

Pretty sure it is the previous Worlds

 

[leafygreens]

In all fairness, though, Ashley hasn't competed much more any season in recent years. Seems with her it all depends on how she trains in the final few weeks. She is shown in the past she's capable of pulling it together, but will she this time is anyone's guess. She's certainly had a weak season thus far. At this point, I wouldn't send any of our ladies based upon "body of work" this time. I'd just see who makes the podium and wish them luck.

I don't think there's anything wrong with not competing much. To me it doesn't sound like Ashley respects her chosen field. If she wants to only do Worlds/Olympics ("Skate America doesn't matter, I only want to be national and Olympic champion") then she better well be skating like a phenom at everything she does do. It's funny because she, of all people, should know that everything now counts! Not just Nationals.

If you don't skate well when you show up, and don't do other competitions, then what conclusion are we supposed to make? The selection criteria only go back to last year's nationals. Her world silver, according to the published criteria, does not count anymore.

If she wanted the Olympics that badly, she should have been out skating at the summer comps and staking her claim. The other girls are going to pass her by. If she can't handle summer comps then how will she be in good enough shape for the Olympics?

Evertime someone says that she needs polish, dance classes, packaging, better choreography it makes me a little nauseous. Do you know who said “They don’t give gold medals to little girls.” (Or something to that effect.) I can almost predict this and fills me with dread.

No one can say that about Bradie because she is outscoring everyone internationally with her "juniorish" packaging. Does USFSA want to send a "woman" who winks at the crowd but currently scoring in the 180s or do they want someone who can break 200?

Realistically though, I don't think it will come down to "Bradie or Ashley." USFSA has a history of doing what they are going to do whether or not it's in their best interest. Ashley is again this year's body of work recipient based off of current TV advertisements and the excuse that she attended a Tier 1 event a year ago. Bradie is this year's Polina. It's going to come down to Karen-Mirai-Mariah for one spot and they will be left out of the team event. I hope it's Mirai because she seems the most fired up and it would make USFSA annoyed to choose her.