2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating

[klutzy]

My personal request to US fans: can you stop killing me?

Marin Honda, the greatest Japanese fs talent has not advanced to Olympics and now I keep reading here some of you want to leave US greatest talent in many years, Karen Chen at home as well.
Huge respect to Ashley, much to Gracie and some to Polina, but for real... These are girls have been working hard, taught well, dedicated, but they've been just so-so talent-wise. Not anywhere close to Karen.
Like OK, she's inconsistent, headcase, whatever, but seriously - when she's on she will leave people in Olympic arena speechless and will fight hard at the top like in last Worlds. She has some technical issues to solve, but she's a FIGURE SKATER for god's sake. Girl steps on the ice and moves like a feather, performs, moves her hands in most elegant way and purpose. Like she's not there to collect only, but to leave something in our hearts. Just...
Have mercy, please.

Gracie is "so-so talent-wise"? Seriously? She was in *first* place after the SP in 2016. And her LP at Nationals in 2016 was stunning. Gorgeous skating skills, sky-high fully rotated jumps. She has other issues, but skating talent isn't one of them.

Karen's a lovely skater, but she and her team have an issue with judgment. I think this isn't her year--she needs to mature a bit and figure how to train and compete on the international level. And rotate.

I look to seeing both her and Marin Honda over the next quad.

 

[tosca]

Mirai still gets more URs than Ashley does. At least Ashley won a GP medal this season. Mirai hasn't won a GP medal since 2013.

Mirai has cleaned up her jumping technique (at the cost of performance). Look at her protocols as NHK (not Rostelecom where she had a meltdown) vs. Ashley Wagner's as SC. I know SC tech caller was tough but she even got carrots (injured) on SA. Or better yet, look at Mirai's protocols as NHK 2017 vs. 2016. 5 carrots in 2016 in the whole competition vs. 3 in 2017 (that includes an under for her 3A).

I hope the tech panel will just be like at Japanese Nationals and not overly generous. I think based on year over year performance, both may have similar amounts of carrots.

 

[R.D.]

Ashley did it with a 183 total in a very weak field.... Mirai has a much higher SB than ashley and has proven to be more consistent than ashley this season. Ashley's GP medal isn't as impressive as it seems.

The difference really isn't that great - I would be careful calling Nagasu "more consistent" than Wagner at this point. Nagasu was 9th in Russia with 178 - and 4th at NHK with 194. Wagner has a 3rd (183) and a WD, therefore only one data point for her. So Nagasu has one dud event and a respectable one, Wagner has one respectable one. Meh

 

[sinnerspinner]

and what's this all about..... mirai is the same....... the real figure skater. amazing beauty and jumps. but people somehow prefer ashley with horrible face expressions which look just awful and improbably, and with bad skating skills. not to mention her urs. i'll never forgive that decision after 2014 nationals, just ugly and unfair.

I don't find Ashley significantly better than Mirai if at all, and facial expressions won't beat the Russians or the Japanese. This year no one can see Ashley won a bunch of contests.

If USFSA does a repeat of 2014 with Mirai, they'd better hire top notch pr experts! If say bradie, polina, and starr/mirai/chen gets third, they take out the 3rd spot and put Ashley there...well, folks, usfsa is just doing it to themselves.

 

[tars]

Gracie is "so-so talent-wise"? Seriously? She was in *first* place after the SP in 2016. And her LP at Nationals in 2016 was stunning. Gorgeous skating skills, sky-high fully rotated jumps. She has other issues, but skating talent isn't one of them.

She's a good jumper, but always looked like she swallowed a broom. Completely stiff and missing any existing musical accent in her movement. Average talent skating wise at best.

 

[mrrice]

Has Polina Edmunds posted any recent practice videos?? I feel like I haven't seen much of her this season. She didn't look very good at her first event but, it's been while since I've seen her.

 

[klutzy]

She's a good jumper, but always looked like she swallowed a broom. Completely stiff and missing any existing musical accent in her movement. Average talent skating wise at best.

Goldie never had great musicianship, but her skating skills, speed, edge control and, of course, jump technique were all strong. She was beautiful in the team event at the Olympics.

Again, she was first after the SP at Worlds in 2016--that means ahead of Medvedeva, Pogorilaya and the Japanese skaters--you can't be a mediocre skater and do that. Given the quality of her LP at Nationals a couple of weeks before, she had the package to be World Champion. Karen Chen needed the skate of her life to be fourth at Worlds. Which isn't to say she isn't a lovely skater with tons of talent and great potential--but dismissing Gold as a mediocre talent is misguided and unfair IMO.

 

[chuckm]

"Average" Gracie was 4th at the 2014 Olympics and was 6th, 5th, 4th and 4th in her four appearances at Worlds. Those are hardly the stats of an "average" skater.

 

[chuckm]

I don't find Ashley significantly better than Mirai if at all, and facial expressions won't beat the Russians or the Japanese. This year no one can see Ashley won a bunch of contests.

Ashley doesn't get 8s in PCS for facial expression alone---she relates to her music and shows it with her entire body, not just her face. If she can deliver her technical content, she will also get high PCS scores.

Mirai doesn't display any connection with her music at all. She just executes her technical content with music as a background. The only linking piece to Miss Saigon is her costume. Even if she is able to deliver most of her technical content, keeping the URs to a reasonable number, her PCS scores will remain mediocre.

Realistically, neither of these ladies are going to beat the Russians or the Japanese, although Ashley did beat some of them just two years ago....

 

[tars]

"Average" Gracie was 4th at the 2014 Olympics and was 6th, 5th, 4th and 4th in her four appearances at Worlds. Those are hardly the stats of an "average" skater.

Those are stats of average skater, very good jumper and highly appreciated by judges US no. 1.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

My personal request to US fans: can you stop killing me?

Marin Honda, the greatest Japanese fs talent has not advanced to Olympics and now I keep reading here some of you want to leave US greatest talent in many years, Karen Chen at home as well.
Huge respect to Ashley, much to Gracie and some to Polina, but for real... These are girls have been working hard, taught well, dedicated, but they've been just so-so talent-wise. Not anywhere close to Karen.
Like OK, she's inconsistent, headcase, whatever, but seriously - when she's on she will leave people in Olympic arena speechless and will fight hard at the top like in last Worlds. She has some technical issues to solve, but she's a FIGURE SKATER for god's sake. Girl steps on the ice and moves like a feather, performs, moves her hands in most elegant way and purpose. Like she's not there to collect only, but to leave something in our hearts. Just...
Have mercy, please.

Like Marin, Karen is inconsistent - an unreliable competitor. It doesn't matter if a skater is artistically great if she's going to UR or pop jumps.

A skater will indeed leave people speechless if she is sent as her country's representative and underwhelms, as Marin did on the GP/at Japanese Nationals, and as Karen has done most of this season.

I can hardly see how the greatest Japanese talent would come 7th (almost 9th) at her own Nationals with all the hype she gets. Talent/potential is nothing without execution.

 

[klutzy]

Those are stats of average skater, very good jumper and highly appreciated by judges US no. 1.

And well beyond those of the skater that you deem superior. Karen Chen will be lucky to make the Olympic team this year and place within the top 10. She'll need a dramatic turnaround this season to approach Gracie Average Gold. And I like Karen Chen's skating. (And Marin Honda's)

 

[MarinHondas]

This thread has morphed into bashing certain skaters to bring up others. Here's my two cents on all the issues. Marin Honda is an amazing skater, with skating skills to die for. Yes, She was unable to deliver at nationals. The inability to deliver does not equate to not being a talented or great skater. Gracie was a big talent. She was not musical but she had something to her skating that many people responded to, including the judges. Gracie had potential to be a world medalist. Even in 2016, with Med, the judges would have given Gracie the win had she gone clean....or at least the silver. Definitely the silver. Gracie's tech ability in her peak form from 2013-2016 worlds was really amazing. Especially in 2013 and 2014. As for the Mirai and Ashley comparison.... they are two completely different skaters. I will say one thing about Mirai though, she really has improved so much this year. Nobody has pointed this out (no jinx please!!!) but Mirai has become pretty consistent in her long. She skated a clean long(everything rotated and stayed on her feet) at Japan Open. At NHK she skated a fairly clean long( 3 UR but one was on her 3a so 2 if she had not been trying that very difficult jump). At Rostelecom she skated a clean long ( UR on 3a and nothing else. Too big of a 2a to do 2a-3t so she "only" did a 2a-2t-2lo. Her best long on the GP series in a really long time). She has not gotten a lot of UR this season at all past the 3a in the long and is on her feet throughout. Ashley has gotten way more UR this season and isn't trying 3a. I will say though Mirai's sp attempts this year have been, well, not the best. Ashley is a VERY good skater who I love to watch and the truth is that it's hard to compare the two because we have seen so little of Ashley this season and she was injured in the SA short. Anyways, as for the Karen debacle, she is very talented. She is a lovely skater and one of my favorite US skaters but she will never be a world medalist if she does not have a clean 3-3. And the truth is she doesn't. It's a shame really because I believe if she did have that she could do anything she wanted. She could be a world medalist, a gpf medalist, 2 time national champ. She of course also has to gain some type of consistency though. Her season has been a mess. Forget about 3-3 and other jump woes, the girl needs some type of guidance. The amount of programs she has had in an Olympic year is crazy. At her best she is something special for sure. Anyways, I apologize for how super lengthy this is!

 

[MarinHondas]

Has Polina Edmunds posted any recent practice videos?? I feel like I haven't seen much of her this season. She didn't look very good at her first event but, it's been while since I've seen her.

I saw a 3lo and 2a-3t on her story a couple weeks ago. While the 2a-3t is impressive I still have not seen flip, lutz or a clean 3-3 combo. Who knows though, she could surprise at nationals and have these jumps.

 

[Spirals for Miles]

The difference really isn't that great - I would be careful calling Nagasu "more consistent" than Wagner at this point. Nagasu was 9th in Russia with 178 - and 4th at NHK with 194. Wagner has a 3rd (183) and a WD, therefore only one data point for her. So Nagasu has one dud event and a respectable one, Wagner has one respectable one. Meh

Since when is 183 a respectable score in this day and age for a lady of Ashley's caliber?

 

[R.D.]

Since when is 183 a respectable score in this day and age for a lady of Ashley's caliber?

I was referring mostly to the placement here (3rd).

But note, respectable =! strong.

 

[MarinHondas]

I was referring mostly to the placement here (3rd).

But note, respectable =! strong.

But 183 isn’t a strong score? 200+ is a strong, respectable score.

 

[Mrs. P]

I think instead of focusing on RD's word choice -- the point is that neither lady (Mirai or Ashley ) have truly distinguished herself from the other(s).

 

[mrrice]

But 183 isn’t a strong score? 200+ is a strong, respectable score.

Right, and so far Bradie is the only US Lady to accomplish that feat. Without seeing Ashley, Caroline Z, or Angela Wang in the last couple of weeks, I don't know of any lady who is capable of breaking 200. Maybe Mirai if she skates a "Blinder"

 

[Spirals for Miles]

Let's just get Polina Tsurskaya some emergency US citizenship so we can have a second 200+ contender if Russia can't find a spot for her...