2018 US Men's Oly/World/4CC team announced

[qwertyskates]

You're as good as your last competition, really. That is the whole point of competitions isn't it.

Why didn't they organize an Olympics skate-off between Ross, Vincent, Jason and Adam? Don't some Feds do this?

 

[Amei]

I think in 2014 they did wait until Nationals was all done and then name the Olympic team. Don't know why they didn't this time. Now I will be watching the free dance with so many mixed emotions.

They really should wait until after the competition and gala, the most memorable moment (for all the wrong reasons) of the 2014 Nationals for me was Mirai Nagasu's exhibition. They should have waited until after the gala to announce the teams, if Ross Miner decided to not skate at the gala I wouldn't blame him in the slightest.

 

[rlopen]

It's really the fact that they hurt a 2nd place finisher...in 2014 Sochi, they bumped Mirai over Ashley...but Mirai had a great skate while Ashley didn't and placed 3rd...Mirai had international experience and had gone to the Olympics beforehand while Polina came out of the blue to get a 2nd place finish...you know who got ot go to the Olympics? Polina! Why? Because she was 2nd!!! You know who was 2nd? Ross!!!!!!! And I'm pretty neutral towards Vincent, but should he have gone to the Olympics AND Worlds over Ross? No!!!! Ross should have been guaranteed at least ONE of Worlds/Olympics being the 2nd place finisher, but they couldn't even bother!!! This just...wow...I thought I would be over it but really I'm not. When I said this was worse than Mirai...it was.

 

[Mathman]

... young/ lots of potential (Zhou).

... you can't say that they weren't transparent about the criteria they used to select these teams.

"Young with lots of potential" was not one of the published criteria. The USFSA may have good reasons for their choices, but in this respect they were not transparent but rather had a hidden criterion.

 

[Miss Ice]

You're as good as your last competition, really. That is the whole point of competitions isn't it.

Why didn't they organize an Olympics skate-off between Ross, Vincent, Jason and Adam? Don't some Feds do this?

And then if Jason/Rippon implode again, organize another one? This is already the skate-off, and the decision was made.

 

[Mathman]

This is already the skate-off, and the decision was made.

This.

 

[SarahSynchro]

You missed my point : Ross, the rest of the season wasn't great (at all) in terms of placements and points. Vincent wasn't excellent either, but a podium at a senior B + World Junior champ 2017 + 2nd place at Nats last year had him higher by the selection criterias. When you compare 2nd and 3rd at this year's Nats, who do you go for ? There is a logic to that.

However, everyone thought before the event it was going to be Nathan, Adam, Jason. But because Jaons was 6th and Vincent 3rd, Vincent earn his spot thanks to this competition. It would have been tough to beat Jason on the selection criterias otherwise. And I'd argue that no country wants to send its 6th ranked man.

Edit: ugh, I quoted the wrong post, sorry, anyasnake!

 

[SarahSynchro]

Plus 1st vs. 2nd at 2017 Nats which is also on the list.

I love Ashley, but this one was fair. Just as her inclusion over Mirai four years ago was fair.

Now the judging in the event, on the other hand....

But never mind all the arguing, can someone here please be mad with me that I have now seen a total of four absolutely racist comments about the men's and ladies team selection on social media, all apparently pointed at the group of six having four skaters of Asian heritage. One commenter on USFSA's FB post is upset that the men's and women's teams are "foreign". And there are also a few blatantly homophobic comments implying that Adam only got his spot because he is gay.

That makes me want to vomit more than watching the free skates last night did.

Your post is from fifteen pages ago, but I have to say it: This is basically the same as: “American bests out Kwan!” all over again. 20 years later, racism is alive and well.

 

[qwertyskates]

And then if Jason/Rippon implode again, organize another one? This is already the skate-off, and the decision was made.

The argument that this is a fluke for Adam and a lucky break for Ross is more compelling if there is a skate-off. If Ross stays true to Nats form then he is definitely better than Adam at medaling or securing Worlds' spots.

 

[college pat]

so do i.

they used separate criteria for mens and womens

even in their own announcing they listed
adam got it because of his getting to 2 straight gp finals- this year he had help with the withdrawal of patrick chan & yuzuru-.
so that goes to body of work

jason got to the gp final due to it also- but left of team.

ashley got to gp final on her own accord in 2016 season , no help from withdrawal of other skaters
ashley body of work this season beat out mirai

yet they stated because karen chen beat ashley out at worlds & 2 straight nationals.

i am sorry but ashley beat mirai out, and bradie out. she even beat her our at worlds.
so where there body of work.

what you mention was tech content-ashley didn't have the technical content to keep up.- so why didn't they tell her and help her.

i am sorry.

i don't disapprove who they chose for men & ladies, just the approach. If use body of work for Adam use it for all,

 

[msteach3]

I think a lot of people are frustrated because they see Nationals as bogus because they perceive it as the most important qualifying competition. This is the fault of the commentators.

The USFSA makes it clear that it is just one of the three most important qualifying competitions. It's the last of the three which is why the team is announced immediately upon the conclusion. However, that doesn't mean it's the most important one in the series, just because the team is announced then.

It's on the commentators to make this clear so that Nationals doesn't make it seem bogus. They hype it up as the most important one, and the USFSA makes it very clear that this is not the case, both in their actions (the men's team they chose) and in their words (they released the criteria very early on).

The commentators made it clear last night that Nationals was not the only criteria for team selection. It has been discussed for months that body of work was to be considered and Nationals was just a piece of the puzzle. I've followed men's skating closely for years, have been to numerous National Championships and have seen Ross skate many times. Whie I really like him on and off the ice, his body of work doesn't come close to being Olympic caliber. Yes, Vincent hasn't had lots of experience, but his potential is huge. The USFS is looking ahead to the future as well as sending what they believe is the strongest team to South Korea.

 

[somelikeitpink]

Jason Brown had a lackluster season. I love him, but he has no quad and has struggled with 3A all season. He placed 6th at nationals and only got 1 grand prix medal. He did not make it on his own to the GPF, he got an alternate spot. That's not enough to snub Ross on both Worlds and Olympics. Ross placed 4 places higher than him at nationals the most recent data point.

If Jason Brown really earned it based on body of work, why wasn't Ashley Wagner named?

I made a whole post about this in the mens thread but:

Technically you can argue that he had maybe not the best season - but resultswise it was still better than Ross.

Ross. 6th at GP
Jason: 2nd and 4th

Beginning of the season he had a silver at lombardia and he was seventh at last year worlds. Ross best placement outside of this was a fifth at Finlandia.

Scorewise internationally Jason was with his worst result still 12 points above Ross best international score. With his best he was almost 30 points above him.

Wagner on the other hand, besides the bronze medal at Skate Canada had nothing else to show for this season. Including her scores.

 

[QuadSal]

I think we all need to calm down a bit from the issue.
I think that the the Olympic team is fair given the selection criteria that was given. It may of been predetermined to a certain degree with Nathan and toss up between Brown or Rippon, but seeing that it Zhou and Ross that got to the podium, then the committee had to go with the body of work pick out who was best.
It is a bit sad that Ross didn't get to be first alt at either worlds or Olympics but again it probably was down to the body of work criteria, and sadly Brown beats him.

Well Congratulations anyway to the Olympic Team

 

[ks777]

I don't think it should count.....That's why I don't think Jason should be the first alternate. As Tonya H. said.......Ross outskated Jason Today!!!

I do agree with you. I really wanted Ross instead of Adam.. I just didn't think Sarah Hughes=Ross Miner in this situation.

 

[amc987]

It's really the fact that they hurt a 2nd place finisher...in 2014 Sochi, they bumped Mirai over Ashley...but Mirai had a great skate while Ashley didn't and placed 3rd...Mirai had international experience and had gone to the Olympics beforehand while Polina came out of the blue to get a 2nd place finish...you know who got ot go to the Olympics? Polina! Why? Because she was 2nd!!! You know who was 2nd? Ross!!!!!!! And I'm pretty neutral towards Vincent, but should he have gone to the Olympics AND Worlds over Ross? No!!!! Ross should have been guaranteed at least ONE of Worlds/Olympics being the 2nd place finisher, but they couldn't even bother!!! This just...wow...I thought I would be over it but really I'm not. When I said this was worse than Mirai...it was.

Did we ever actually get confirmation that Mirai was bumped so Ashley could go to Sochi? I know that's how the media spun it, and that narrative fits the Mirai 3rd/ Ashley 4th result. But I always thought that Polina, and not Ashley, bumped Mirai from the team. Gracie and Ashley were going to be sent almost without regard to their Nationals results because they were perceived medal contenders and had strong international results. Polina had none of those qualities, but she placed 2nd at Nationals.

"Young with lots of potential" was not one of the published criteria. The USFSA may have good reasons for their choices, but in this respect they were not transparent but rather had a hidden criterion.

Point taken. I think it was really the young/has a lot of potential + top 3 finish that did it. I don't think that, for example, they would've bumped Ross for Vincent if Vincent had been 4th. So maybe the "hidden" criterion wasn't the only one at play.

 

[Amei]

This right here. BoW comes and goes as it pleases.

Ashley is the first alternate, rightfully so as the 4th place finisher she's first in line behind the top 3 finishers that get to go to Worlds/Olympics.

 

[meem]

Not a happy camper. IMO, if you can't successfully do at least one quad, you have no business being on any of the men's teams (O's, Worlds, etc).

 

[Kissx3]

The only thing that's questionable for me is whether or not they should do something drastic like this when the replacements aren't likely to medal. I mean, Adam or Jason can both slide into the top 10, as compared to Ross, who usually does so poorly that I don't even know I'd give him 50/50 on making the free skate, but it's extremely unlikely they'll medal. On the one hand, yeah, it's a sport so they should try and be as competitive with the rest of the world as possible, on the other hand it doesn't really matter so why not just use Nationals as the determinant? Olympics only, of course, what happens at Worlds does affect the fed and all the skaters under it for the next year so swaps are fair play there.

 

[Mathman]

Your post is from fifteen pages ago, but I have to say it: This is basically the same as: “American bests out Kwan!” all over again. 20 years later, racism is alive and well.

Still, four comments on facebook don't tell us much, except that there are four idiots somewhere out there in facebook land.

 

[rlopen]

Did we ever actually get confirmation that Mirai was bumped so Ashley could go to Sochi? I know that's how the media spun it, and that narrative fits the Mirai 3rd/ Ashley 4th result. But I always thought that it was actually Polina who bumped Mirai from the team. Gracie and Ashley were going to be sent almost without regard to their Nationals results because they were perceived medal contenders and had strong international results.



Point taken. I think it was really the young/has a lot of potential + top 3 finish that did it. I don't think that, for example, they would've bumped Ross for Vincent if Vincent had been 4th. So maybe the "hidden" criterion wasn't the only one at play.

If Polina bumped Mirai from the team...then honestly Ross has even more of a pull here...even if Vincent is young/has lots of potential Ross should have gone to Olympics and Vincent should have gone to Worlds to give Vincent Worlds experience and give Ross his (rightful) swan song at Olympics..it's not like Olympics matter as much as Worlds for Feds either and it would have been a great Olympics story to send Ross there...instead we again have a Sochi-esque controversy...