2018 US Men's Oly/World/4CC team announced

[mrrice]

I do agree with you. I really wanted Ross instead of Adam.. I just didn't think Sarah Hughes=Ross Miner in this situation.

I don't know if I explained well enough. I was happy for Sarah and she deserved her win based on how she skated that night. Sarah did have a Bronze from 2001 but Irina and Michelle were silver gold ahead of her. She was in 4th going into the free in SLC and the judges rightly had her winning. The judges had Ross on the team and the "Committee" took him off.....That's my only real problem with all of this.

 

[somelikeitpink]

The only thing that's questionable for me is whether or not they should do something drastic like this when the replacements aren't likely to medal. I mean, Adam or Jason can both slide into the top 10, as compared to Ross, who usually does so poorly that I don't even know I'd give him 50/50 on making the free skate, but it's extremely unlikely they'll medal. On the one hand, yeah, it's a sport so they should try and be as competitive with the rest of the world as possible, on the other hand it doesn't really matter so why not just use Nationals as the determinant? Olympics only, of course, what happens at Worlds does affect the fed and all the skaters under it for the next year so swaps are fair play there.

Well I mean I guess thats a good question. I mean the competitive side of me still would say "You can NEVER know what happens" especially in a year full of injuries like this. I do wonder though if theres also money involved in this aka fed or someone gets more money if they place higher - no matter if its off the podium - so a say 7th place is preferable to a 15th?

 

[Putina]

I hope those who watched Nats at the venue wonder "well, what was the competition for?"

Why does it have to be for something? Winning nationals in and of itself, proving yourself and sharing the moment with the national audience is not an experience worth having?

Does winning Olympic games also have to be "for something?" Like what?

 

[sinnerspinner]

I think body of work is code for 'we will send who we want (esp favorites who flop at nationals).

 

[qwertyskates]

Why does it have to be for something? Winning nationals in and of itself, proving yourself and sharing the moment with the national audience is not an experience worth having?

Does winning Olympic games also have to be "for something?" Like what?

Many athletes are in it for the Olympics - it's a very expensive and dangerous sport and it's only fair that those who are specifically hoping to train to get on the team might wish to know their chances of making it if they get on the Nats podium. If it is known that only a few specific skaters will be considered then many might not have invested time and money, or risk their health (concussions!) to train quads in the hopes of making it.

 

[yume]

Every country should use South Korea crazy selection process.

 

[YagsFan]

You can't use Sarah Hughes as an example. Sarah won many medals at GPs. She even beat both Kwan and Slutskaya at a GP event in that Olympic season.

Good points. And furthermore, the post by mrrice, and points made by many others here without the Sarah analogy, is comparing apples to oranges. mrrice was saying that Sarah won OG because she skated best that night, and therefore Ross should have been named to the team because he skated (2nd) best this night. Ross did indeed skate terrifically this night, but he did get the comparable reward---the medal he earned! And I personally don't think Ross, or many other National Championship medalists so discount that reward. It's a BIG DEAL to have won the Silver Medal at US Nationals, regardless of what does or doesn't come afterwards, and I'd bet that that is how Ross looks, or at the very least will look, at it.

 

[Nathan13]

At least we can stop arguing about whether or not Ashley should have bumped Mirai off the team in 2014. This should sustain us for at least another 4 years. :hap93:

 

[Mathman]

I think body of work is code for 'we will send who we want (esp favorites who flop at nationals).

I like the language in the USFSA rules regarding a skater who, because of injury of illness, cannot skate at Nationals at all. It says, "In the case of a dominant skater ..." Historically, "dominant" meant someone like Michelle Kwan, or at least Todd Eldredge. I would feel better about the whole thing if the USFSA required "body of work" to be more substantial than just, "I got third place at Rostelecom last year."

 

[TontoK]

The only thing that's questionable for me is whether or not they should do something drastic like this when the replacements aren't likely to medal. I mean, Adam or Jason can both slide into the top 10, as compared to Ross, who usually does so poorly that I don't even know I'd give him 50/50 on making the free skate, but it's extremely unlikely they'll medal. On the one hand, yeah, it's a sport so they should try and be as competitive with the rest of the world as possible, on the other hand it doesn't really matter so why not just use Nationals as the determinant? Olympics only, of course, what happens at Worlds does affect the fed and all the skaters under it for the next year so swaps are fair play there.

I think I understand what you are saying.

I actually do think medal prospects were in the committee's minds as they made this selection. The Team Event Medal.

If I'm the team coach, I want to skate Nathan in the SP, but once the field is whittled down, use another man in the LP of the team event. Based on recent performances, the committee might have thought, "We can see who's skating better, and pick either Vincent or Adam, depending on who has the hot hand at the moment."

Looking at scores over the long haul, Ross would have been too much of a risk, and would have limited options for the team event.

And that's my conspiracy theory for the day.

 

[YagsFan]

Why does it have to be for something? Winning nationals in and of itself, proving yourself and sharing the moment with the national audience is not an experience worth having?

Does winning Olympic games also have to be "for something?" Like what?

Exactly! Enjoy the reward for your hard work, don't discount it by looking at it as only a stepping stone to something else that may or may not materialize. I have to believe that most of the skaters we all enjoy do indeed appreciate the rewards they earn in and of themselves.

 

[zschultz1986]

I don't know if explained well enough. I was happy for Sarah and she deserved her win based on how she skated that night. Sarah did have a Bronze from 2001 but Irina and Michelle we silver gold ahead of her. She was in 4th going into the free in SLC and the judges rightly had her winning. The judges had Ross on the team.....That's my only real problem with all of this.

No. They Didn't. They had him winning the silver medal at the 2018 Nationals. Stop thinking about the Nationals before the Olympics as an Olympic Trial. It is not billed like that.

There are specific criteria. All of the criteria BESIDES 2018 Nationals are in favor of Adam over Ross.

Everyone:

STOP THINKING OF THE NATIONALS IN AN OLYMPIC YEAR AS AN OLYMPIC TRIAL. THAT IS NOT WHAT IT IS!

 

[Kissx3]

I think I understand what you are saying.

I actually do think medal prospects were in the committee's minds as they made this selection. The Team Event Medal.

Ah right. The team event. I keep forgetting it exists even after I mention it myself. You're probably right. I wouldn't have trusted Ross with that either.

 

[fenway3]

I think body of work is code for 'we will send who we want (esp favorites who flop at nationals).

I think so too. The thing is, USFS could make an explicit list before Nationals of which top skaters would actually have to win Nationals to make the team, and which are already favorites for the team because of "body of work." In fact, they could even crunch numbers to make it all nice and tidy. That way everybody would know exactly where they stand. But USFS won't do that. And I think what you said explains why.

Here's the thing—if USFS is really so committed to the importance of "body of work," then why should the national champion get an automatic berth for Worlds/Olympics at all? Why reward a skater who just gets hot at Nationals?

 

[snowflake]

I can accept nationals no longer being everything. But it certainly needs to be something. Giving Miner 2nd alternate makes it almost nothing.

Will americans now stop attending nationals as the big exciting feast? I think I would have. More fun when US nationals was the 'star of the night' being promoted hwell:

 

[demarinis5]

No. They Didn't. They had him winning the silver medal at the 2018 Nationals. Stop thinking about the Nationals before the Olympics as an Olympic Trial. It is not billed like that.

There are specific criteria. All of the criteria BESIDES 2018 Nationals are in favor of Adam over Ross.

Everyone:

STOP THINKING OF THE NATIONALS IN AN OLYMPIC YEAR AS AN OLYMPIC TRIAL. THAT IS NOT WHAT IT IS!

No need to shout. This is a figure skating board and folks are allowed to express their opinions without being shouted at.

 

[somelikeitpink]

I think so too. The thing is, USFS could make an explicit list before Nationals of which top skaters would actually have to win Nationals to make the team, and which are already favorites for the team because of "body of work." In fact, they could even crunch numbers to make it all nice and tidy. That way everybody would know exactly where they stand. But USFS won't do that. And I think what you said explains why.

Here's the thing—if USFS is really so committed to the importance of "body of work," then why should the national champion get an automatic berth for Worlds/Olympics at all? Why reward a skater who just gets hot at Nationals?

But lets be real everyone can make those lists for themselves. And then imagine the kind of pressure you'd be under if you KNEW you had to win. This might make things clearer but I really think that for athletes it would be REALLY difficult mentally.

and the bolded part... I think thats exactly why I think this is a good idea. Get people to put an effort in throughout the year instead of just work towards Nats and nothing else.

 

[Tavi...]

I think so too. The thing is, USFS could make an explicit list before Nationals of which top skaters would actually have to win Nationals to make the team, and which are already favorites for the team because of "body of work." In fact, they could even crunch numbers to make it all nice and tidy. That way everybody would know exactly where they stand. But USFS won't do that. And I think what you said explains why.

Here's the thing—if USFS is really so committed to the importance of "body of work," then why should the national champion get an automatic berth for Worlds/Olympics at all? Why reward a skater who just gets hot at Nationals?

The national champion isn’t guaranteed a place at the Olympics any more. That’s specifically stated, and I believe it’s also true for Worlds.

Nathan’s selection was basically automatic because he’s outperformed every US male skater for the past two years = body of work, not just because he placed first here.

 

[KwanIsALegend]

I think Ross can be angry about not making the team but it was also expected. He knew they were going to look at everything else- everything he didn't have too. I don't think he can be furious about that. Not even being first alternate though is a tough pill to swallow (I say this as someone who loves Jason).[/QUOTE

Agreed. I am sure Ross saw this coming.

 

[fenway3]

But lets be real everyone can make those lists for themselves.

I'm not sure about that. If that's true, why would Mark Mitchell be so surprised about what happened? Besides, that's assuming that USFS is really applying their criteria objectively, which many people wonder about.

And then imagine the kind of pressure you'd be under if you KNEW you had to win. This might make things clearer but I really think that for athletes it would be REALLY difficult mentally.

I don't necessarily think so—in fact, I think it would actually take the pressure off for many. For instance, someone like Miner would probably say to himself, "There's no way I'm going to win, so I'll just skate my best for myself." But I don't think the reason USFS doesn't do this has anything to do with concern for the mental state of its athletes?

and the bolded part... I think thats exactly why I think this is a good idea. Get people to put an effort in throughout the year instead of just work towards Nats and nothing else.

At least this policy would be consistent. If "body of work" is truly important, then it should be important for everyone.

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The national champion isn’t guaranteed a place at the Olympics any more. That’s specifically stated, and I believe it’s also true for Worlds.

Really? OK, thanks—didn't know that. When did that change?