2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating

[Globetrotter]

Well the US ladies who can’t do the technical stuff first and foremost haven’t been exactly running away with events either. Even Gracie (who was saved countless times) couldn’t really overcome her mistakes at the big international events. This consistency first mentality is a step in the right direction for the US federation.

I kind of think just showing up and sassing around with inconsistent technical ability shouldn’t be very well rewarded. Bradie on the other hand can be a great asset to us. She can set the technical bar high finally for girls to strive to and as they do..they’ll have to raise the level of presentation to pass her. The other way hadn’t been working and dear lord...the music selection and just overall low quality of skating in US Ladies skating is concerning. At least based on US Nats this season...I’m very concerned and uninspired. We are really far behind Japan and Russia but Bradie isn’t

Imagine if Bradie somehow gains Satoko's refinement, SS and interpretation. Now that will be a near unbeatable combo.

 

[andromache]

Let's be careful about being too quick to want to repackage Bradie. Wouldn't want to disrupt what is clearly working for her on the mental level.

(People always blamed the Frank and Lori package on Gracie being inconsistent, when the truth is that Gracie was always inconsistent. But still - you don't want to be too hasty about changing the routine of girl who IS consistent.)

Get her working with a new choreographer next season, someone who can spend more than a week with her. Also, at least she's already capable of decent transitions, another common issue with US ladies.

And whoever costumes her in the future - don't let it be Vera Wang.

 

[R.D.]

Let's be careful about being too quick to want to repackage Bradie. Wouldn't want to disrupt what is clearly working for her on the mental level.

People are eager to mold the skater into their “ideal” by suggesting fashion or style ideas that have nothing to do with getting the job done on the ice...if the status quo is working, then why change it? After the season, then Team Tennell can dig into the scoresheets, and if necessary, make changes wherever they feel will have the biggest impact.

 

[Lyssa]

Here are my calculations on the season 2017-2018

Ladies US
Score USA National + 1/2 best scores (Grand Prix/Challengers) = Total (Average)

1- Bradie Tennell (219,51+204,10+196,70) = 620,31 (206,77)
2- Mirai Nagasu (213,84+194,46+183,54) = 591,84 (197,28)
3- Ashley Wagner (196,19+183,94+No other scores) = 380,53 (190,26)

If I count only 2 better scores of Karen, she passes in front of Ashley with 381,39 (190,70)

4- Karen Chen (198,59+182,80+182,32) = 563,71 (187,90)
5- Mariah Bell (192,34+188,56+168,66) = 549,56 (183,19)
6- Angela Wang (188,01+183,85+160,04) = 531,90 (177,30)
7- Starr Andrews (189,91+163,49+No other scores) = 353,40 (176,70)
8- Courtney Hicks (165,48+182,57+174,16) = 522,21 (174,07)
9- Caroline Zhang (156,38+167,95+170,82) = 495,15 (165,05)
10- Amber Glenn (168,06+151,14+149,96) = 469,16 (156,39)

 

[ice coverage]

Here are calculations on the season 2017-2018

Ladies US
Score USA National + 1/2 best scores (Grand Prix/Challengers) = Total (Average)

1- Bradie Tennell (219,51+204,10+196,70) = 620,31 (206,77)
2- Mirai Nagasu (213,84+194,46+183,54) = 591,84 (197,28)
3- Ashley Wagner (196,19+183,94+No other scores) = 380,53 (190,26)

If I count only 2 better scores of Karen, she passes in front of Ashley with 381,39 (190,70)

4- Karen Chen (198,59+182,80+182,32) = 563,71 (187,90)
5- Mariah Bell (192,34+188,56+168,66) = 549,56 (183,19)
6- Angela Wang (188,01+183,85+160,04) = 531,90 (177,30)
7- Starr Andrews (189,91+163,49+No other scores) = 353,40 (176,70)
8- Courtney Hicks (165,48+182,57+174,16) = 522,21 (174,07)
9- Caroline Zhang (156,38+167,95+170,82) = 495,15 (165,05)
10- Amber Glenn (168,06+151,14+149,96) = 469,16 (156,39)

Calculations that you have chosen to make (for whatever reason).

But we have no reason to believe that the USFS selection committee made such calculations.

We do not know precisely how the committee arrived at its decisions.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I do agree that Bradie does have potential. She is already solid with her jumps so she need to work on her presentation a lot more. She can get a different choreographer and costumes. Right now, she reminds me of a Librarian. Very plain and boring. She doesn't appeal to many people.

I think Bradie surprised a lot of people (including herself), and her goals this season were probably more about executing clean programs than exploring her artistic range. She could have edgy programs, but it wouldn't matter if she didn't hit her elements. I think next season we'll see more adventurous choices from her. I'm really excited about her future because she has competed well this season and handled the Nationals LP like a pro, whereas many skaters find it difficult to hold on to a close SP lead.

 

[russianfan]

The ONLY way Bradie medals at Olympics is if we have one of the messiest women's events in Olympic history. She has to get through Evgenia(with a injury but still highly likely to get ott scores regardless of what she puts out)Alina( can and most likely will backload all of these girls in to an early grave)Maria(just as uncharismatic and bland as Bradie but the judges seem to be behind her), Satoko, Karoi(who both have already beaten her in her home gp), Katelyn(will bury Bradie in sp alone) Gabby(if she's on-more powerful jumps and a more engaging performer) and Carolina(can beat any of the us girls with no triple triple on pcs alone). She also could get beat by Mirai if she somehow pulls out clean triple axels and has the skates of her life. US fed was really trying it this weekend to make her pcs and tech seem like it could take on the rest of the world but if you've been paying attention at all this season its obviously just not reality.

that was kinda rude, but very funny :thumbsup:

And i thought russians are sometimes harsh towards their skaters!

To the topic, i think Bradie is going into right direction - technical skills first, packaging later. You don't score high with components only, unless your name is Carolina. Technical skills are less subjective, so it's easier to get good scores with that at the beginning.

 

[brightphoton]

Calculations that you have chosen to make (for whatever reason).

But we have no reason to believe that the USFS selection committee made such calculations.

We do not know precisely how the committee arrived at its decisions.

Don't you think the committee has a responsibility to tell people how it arrives at decisions?

 

[qwertyskates]

As befits a true Cinderella, I am hoping that Fairy-godfather Frank Caroll will wave his magic wand and transform Bradie from an ice princess into a class act. :luv17:

 

[ice coverage]

Don't you think the committee has a responsibility to tell people how it arrives at decisions?

My reply to Lyssa had nothing to do with my opinion one way or another.

And I am trying to stay out of debates, so I am not going to answer your question and give my opinion.

 

[beki]

Achievable short term improvements for Bradie would be to ditch the rhinestone headband and work on her arms in her step sequence. Personally I think Maria is way ahead of her. Judges may put her above Kaori but that’s about it.

 

[quadrupleaxel15]

With my two favourite programs gone (Bond&LLL) and Evgenia most likely winning I've lost my over-excitement for the Olympics.

How do you think the Worlds will go? Can these three secure the spots?

 

[brightphoton]

My reply to Lyssa had nothing to do with my opinion one way or another.

And I am trying to stay out of debates, so I am not going to answer your question and give my opinion.

If you don't want to debate, then don't start debates. At no point did she ever present them as the committee justifications.

She showed her own fan calculations, and then suddenly you're going on about committees, for whatever reason.

 

[ice coverage]

If you don't want to debate, then don't start debates. At no point did she ever present them as the committee justifications.

She showed her own fan calculations, and then suddenly you're going on about committees, for whatever reason.

And at no point did I start a debate.

You are trying to start a debate, and I am not going to get sucked into your debate.

I do not think Lyssa will mind if I quote her reply to me from another thread:

Sorry there are my calculations, it is not officiel I should have said, sorry

 

[Bluediamonds09]

Really curious to see which ladies get International assignments next year. Is there a thread for this?? Because there are so many possibilities.
*If Wagner or Nagasu retire or take the year off, that’s 2 spots available for 2 lucky ones.
* by sending her to 4CC, the federation seems to want Starr to turn senior .
* Amber Glenn?????????? What’ll they do with her????
*does Caroline receive an assignment after her poor nationals?
*Ting Cui is going to junior worlds; if she does well does she get a senior International??
* Gracie returning?
*Are there ANY new senior faces to get excited about for next season? Who do we have?

 

[flipsydoodle]

As befits a true Cinderella, I am hoping that Fairy-godfather Frank Caroll will wave his magic wand and transform Bradie from an ice princess into a class act. :luv17:

I think she already Cinderella'd herself, no help needed. It even struck midnight and the magic didn't disappear: from "who knows" to Nationals to Olympics. That's some magic.

 

[brightphoton]

And at no point did I start a debate.

You are trying to start a debate, and I am not going to get sucked into your debate.

I do not think Lyssa will mind if I quote her reply to me from another thread:

Ok but she never said those were official committee numbers in the first place ... I thought it was pretty clear they were just fan stats

I'm too lazy to collect statistics myself, but I like lists of stats, so I don't want this forum to scare off people who do. I found it useful to see how close Ashley and Karen were

 

[nguyhm]

It may be a tall order to enhance PCS significantly and grind it into muscle memory by the Olympics.

About the costume topic, that would be do-able quite quickly, I would imagine. I was thinking that Bradie would be a more mature seniorish skater just by changing costumes in the long. Absolutely, get rid of the crown. But couldn’t she get rid of the baby blue, find a more regal color, and pass for an exceptional princess? She could look at Princess Diaries and get all kinds of ideas for cut and color and still be in Disney-compatible territory.

(PS Princess Diaries #1 is a great storyline for Bradie’s current situation. Suddenly finding yourself in a very elevated position and stepping up your whole being to go along with the new status.)

It also might be worth looking at the ombre effect of, e.g. Knierim, which can look stunning though simple. This is the “less is more” approach.

I do like the color of Bradie’s SP dress; it’s stunning against her skin and pops well off the ice. I even like the creative positioning of the standard curlicue plaque. However, an Olympian and top-ranked US skater could maybe have a more wowee, even though understated, costume for the SP, too.

I also think we need to be careful here in two respects.

One, there’s so much emphasis on designer costumes in skating, that it’s become de rigueur to have one. Unfortunately, women often get evaluated for the way they look as though it reflects talent and skill. The #metoo movement should remind us that bodies and comments about bodies have historically been ways to denigrate, control, and minimize talent in women.

Two, let’s keep in mind as well that while Bradie might just like simple as a wardrobe choice, as in her SP costume, not every skater can afford jewel-bedecked costumes, let alone at the rate Karen and Ashley seemed to have gone through them this year.

To end with my comments, I think it would be nice if a well-heeled donor and a topnotch designer could step up with elegant dresses that suit the moment and that Bradie just loves to skate in. Let it be something special; this year has been an extraordinary achievement for her.

No Vera Wang please. I agree that she could use a new costume for the long program but the dress for the short is beautiful and like you pointed out the color really pops against her skin tone and on ice, I love it.

 

[skatesofgold]

Am I the only one who loves Bradie's lp dress? It's one of my favorites this year. The color was clearly inspired by the dress Cinderella wears in the live action movie.

 

[klutzy]

Bradie's very fair--I think a headpiece helps. I don't hate her costumes the way some of you do, but I'm wondering if some sort of sleeve in the FS might help obscure the stiff gangly arm thing a bit by breaking up the line. Normally, you don't want to do that, but I think it might help here. She's a bit colt-like now, but there's a lot that could be done.

As for the future--it's interesting that Gracie's tweeted that she wants to come back--wonder if she'll follow through?

I think Ashley will retire, hope she does so gracefully and finds a way to use her talents--she's charismatic, attractive and has a lot of personality.

Mirai should enjoy her moment. After performing, I hope she turns to coaching. She has a lot to share there, I think. (Also, many years from now, I hope Karen Chen becomes a choreographer--she has great potential there.)

Much as I'd love to see Bradie surprise everyone with a bronze, realistically, I think she's more of a transitional figure--the first American Lady who's really adapted to the new system and trains/skates accordingly. That said, she could dramatically improve on her PCS in the next couple of years and *then* she'll become a realistic medal contender at Worlds. It's quite possible--she skates to the music (looking at you, Gracie and Mirai), she just doesn't really "perform" a character yet. Needs to stay uninjured though.

Speaking of injuries--oh Polina--will I ever see you skate to your potential?

Up-and-comers--Amber Glenn skates like silk. Fix the mental prep and she'll be gorgeous.

Starr Andrews--the audience LOVES her and she loves the audience. She's the sort of skater who could build up the skating fanbase in the U.S., but she needs better skills--I can see years of grousing by Starr fans who feel she's not getting her due. C'mon Starr, fix those edges and survive that upcoming growth spurt (and, yes, one is coming.)

Tessa, Frances, Ting, Pooja, etc.--lots of girls on the cusp--one's going to break out, just a question of whom.

And hello Alysa Liu--please survive adolescence. I kind of love your Skate Dad. He answers questions on YouTube.